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Quote (bodhitharta @ July 14 2009,10:57) The Bible says one person can not be responsible for the sins of another Deuteronomy 24 (King James Version)
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14 (King James Version)
6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Chronicles 25 (King James Version)
4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
Hi BD,I see where you are coming from here, but I believe that the law given unto men on how to treat other men, is different from the will of the Father and how He shall deal with men on earth.
We do see in fact that God allows the punishment given to one man affect their children. Perfect example is in the beginning with Adam and Eve and their punishment of death which was cast onto all of man from that time onward. The punishment given to Eve of pain in childbirth certainly passed to her children. Cain was punished with the fields no longer yielding strength to him, that too was passed down. In Deuteronomy we see God punish men by having their children be taken captive and turned into slaves. When God sends a famine, you don't think that affects innocent children? God has also made diseases He has stricken onto people become inherited.
To get back to Adam and Eve and their punishment of deterioration and death, it is because of that punishment that all men were destined to sin. The mind lives in a survival mode where it must serve the body in order to live, this enslavement was a guarantee of sin for everyman. In Adam, Paul tells us, all were made sinners. This is why God saw justice in having one man bring righteousness. Jesus shows us that God can work righteousness in man, if He can work it into Jesus then He can work it into all men. This is why Jesus can pay the penalty for all sins.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Do you understand what Paul is trying to tell us here and it's great significance?
Hi Jodi,
You see man as a poor carnal mind trapped in our body?
Even the mind must be transformed to be any use to us[rom12]
Salvation of the Soul is the aim, not of man's own weak mind. [1Peter1]Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 14 2009,13:09) Hi Jodi,
You see man as a poor carnal mind trapped in our body?
Even the mind must be transformed to be any use to us[rom12]
Salvation of the Soul is the aim, not of man's own weak mind. [1Peter1]
Good Morning Nick,The carnal mind is ignorant and it needs God's Spirit working in it to overcome the desires of the flesh. God's Spirit works truth and wisdom into our ignorant minds. Knowing that Jesus died and paid for our sins means that our minds no longer need to be slaves to sin and we no longer need to fear death. Knowing that we have eternal life through JC should give us strength not to serve our flesh in selfish ways that lead to sin. God's Spirit working in our minds, gives us power and reason to deny sinful desires.
The carnal mind as well needs time and experience to learn that it needs to TRUST in God over itself.
I believe viewing the nature of the mind of young children, even teenagers we can see the nature of the human mind that got Adam and Eve into trouble in the garden. To raise a good child takes proper instruction and teaching does it not? When we observe the ignorant mind that we are all born with we see that the human mind naturally likes to trust in it's own understanding before it does anyone else. The nature of our minds likes to PROVE things, but until proof is made it prefers more often times then not to depend on it's own ideas of what it thinks is true first. To be a good parent takes patients and often times allowing your child to make mistakes in order for them to learn valuable lessons. After a few bad mistakes kids are often more likely to listen to their parents, because now they KNOW, it has been proven in their mind that their parents do in fact know more then them and they should thus probably listen to them.
God is first and foremost the person of whom we need to put our minds to trust in and follow.
Hi Jodi,
What Jesus did is irrelevant for those who do not respond to his demand men be reborn.
Knowing about his sacrificial death is like knowing of any historical event -so what?
The carnal mind is useless to God without submission to what is written.
Education is the hope of men but obedience makes the difference.Hi Nick,
Do you like to argue just for the sake of arguing? I feel like truth to you is more like a competition for you, like let's see who can be right more of the time. Let's see what nit pick, unsignificant thing I can pull out of one of Jodi's posts so I can prove she is wrong about something. I give long posts with many scriptures and you come back with some nit pick, irrelevant lame comment with an accusation coupled with it.
In this case we are dealing with a short post with no scriptures, but none of the less, your efforts in posting back seem to be bound in trying to one up me with knowledge, to feed your ego or something.
Your trying to disagree with me it seems on a matter that we agree on.
You said, Knowing about his sacrificial death is like knowing of any historical event –so what? The carnal mind is useless to God without submission to what is written. Education is the hope of men but obedience makes the difference.
Just after I said, “God is first and foremost the person of whom we need to put our minds to trust in and follow.“
Good Grief Nick.
Hi Jodi,
So putting our mind's trust in God and following Him is a way of salvation?
How do we follow God?Hi Jodi,
The point is we cannot follow God but only the Son of God, a man.And just as he was unable to do anything without the anointing power and authority of God neither can we.
Just as he was reborn from above being anointed and proclaimed as God 's son at the Jordan we must repent and seek the same blessing.
Why don't you answer that one yourself.
When your respectful enough to back up accusations with direct examples, quoting me and showing precisely where I'm in error in my interpretation of the scriptures I give, then maybe I'll bother answering your questions.
As Paul Harvey use to say, “Good Day!” Jodi
Hi Jodi,
When does your book come out?
You share the Christadephians belief about Satan not existing so have you been one of their members?Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
Jesus was born just like us with a NATURALLY BODY, even though he was made in every way like us and tempted as we are, he remained sinless because God’s Spirit was working in him. As predestined by God and promised before hand to David, Jesus could not be held to the punishment of death. Jesus flesh would not see corruption and he was raised from the dead and given an immortal BODY made WITH flesh and bone. This immortal body made of FLESH and BONE is a spiritual body, for it has the Spirit of eternal life in it.
Jesus is NOT the One True God, he is the GLORIOUS WORK of the One True God. Our Heavenly Father is a Great Designer, and he made Jesus out of the same elements from the Periodic Table as you and me. Jesus still exists from those elements of which form DNA and contain the seeds or rather the genes of David.
Lu 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
Acts 13:32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
Jesus is most certainly not God or 1/3 part of God, he was and STILL IS a Human Being, and we should never forget that everything he came to be was because of the direct plan and will of the One True God, the Father.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; 4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
Yet again we see Jesus is clearly shown not to be the One True God. Paul is the bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus the Messiah (a human being). The promise by the One True God the Father, which was made before time began, was eternal life. We are shown clearly that the plan of eternal life was not for part of God to come down and become a human being. The plan is clearly shown that God would produce from the seed of David an Eternal King. Jesus was the MANNA that came from heaven, not God coming from heaven. Jesus was, as was also the manna, PRODUCED on earth by the One True God the Father, making Jesus thus coming from heaven.
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” 30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do?
Jesus is not God, he did not send himself, he was the direct plan and will of the Only True God the Father.
31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' “32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
From the above scripture we see yet again that Jesus did not pre-exist and he was not 1/3 part of the God that gave the manna in the wilderness. The One and Only True God the Father sent the manna as He also sent Jesus. Both the manna and Jesus are said to come down from heaven, however we know that the manna was produced on earth in the wilderness picked up off of the ground, and Jesus was produced in the womb of Mary and then was born like all other infants. Jesus and the manna both came into existence on earth due to the direct plan and power of the One and Only True God the Father.
The idea that Jesus was an infant boy but also God is pure Christian deceit rooted in pagan tradition.
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
The work and will of God is that we believe in His Son, and who is His son but a MAN who followed not the will of a man, not the will of himself, but the Will of the One and Only True God, the Father. Jesus did nothing of himself and he learned from the Father. Jesus is our example of how a Human Being should FOLLOW the One and Only true God the Father. Nowhere in scripture are we told that we need to believe that the Son of God is the One and Only True God. On the contrary we are to believe that Jes
us is the man who died and paid for our sins and that he was directly sent By the One True God, the Father.1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up–if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
As Jesus was a human being who the One and Only True God the Father raised from the dead, our God can do the same for us. We are not to believe that Jesus is God, we are to believe that Jesus is a human being of the seed of David and is an Eternal King. We are to believe that Jesus is our mediator to the One and Only True God the Father. Jesus is the perfect example of how a human can be one with God.
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
The One and Only True God the Father sent a human being into the world to teach people about Himself.
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Yet another scripture showing that Jesus is clearly NOT the One and Only True God.
John 17:24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
The glory of Jesus is that he was a human being who died for our sins and reconciled us back to God. Before time began God had the promise of eternal life, this makes it rather obvious that the love God had for Jesus, the man born of Mary, was a love from foreknowledge.
Finally once again, Jesus is not God, he is the Messiah, the human being promised by God to bring eternal life to all. We are to worship the Father and the Father ALONE as the One True God.
Amen to that post Sis Jodi. Jesus is human messiah exalted to the level of sitting at right hand side of God.
PS 8 says like this4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [2]
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,These verses have been fulfilled in glorified man Jesus.
Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 05 2009,21:27) Amen to that post Sis Jodi. Jesus is human messiah exalted to the level of sitting at right hand side of God.
PS 8 says like this4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [2]
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,These verses have been fulfilled in glorified man Jesus.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Actually these things were fulfilled in AdamQuote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 06 2009,08:55) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 05 2009,21:27) Amen to that post Sis Jodi. Jesus is human messiah exalted to the level of sitting at right hand side of God.
PS 8 says like this4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [2]
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,These verses have been fulfilled in glorified man Jesus.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Actually these things were fulfilled in Adam
Jesus cares for uQuote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Aug. 07 2009,09:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 06 2009,08:55) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 05 2009,21:27) Amen to that post Sis Jodi. Jesus is human messiah exalted to the level of sitting at right hand side of God.
PS 8 says like this4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [2]
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,These verses have been fulfilled in glorified man Jesus.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Actually these things were fulfilled in Adam
Jesus cares for u
Who do you worship?Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 05 2009,21:27) Amen to that post Sis Jodi. Jesus is human messiah exalted to the level of sitting at right hand side of God.
PS 8 says like this4 what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?5 Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [2]
and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,These verses have been fulfilled in glorified man Jesus.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Greetings G……It sounds to me that we might be deminishing the Godly office of the Word…Who became flesh and dwelt among us….And in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God…When we can finally bring ourselves to a point where we realize that Gods ways are higher than ours and what we think we know about him is folly in his eyes….My plan is to revert back to childhood and curtail the high minded interlectual pursuits into scripture that just confuse me….Jodi and Adam………….You both understand that Jesus was a Man who came into existence at his berth on earth, and He is the first (MAN) to recieve eternal life, the (First) raised by GOD from the DEAD. And this is indeed our HOPE also that GOD the FATHER will raise us Up and put us together with Jesus for ever. This awareness is a sign of the HOLY SPIRIT in each of you. All the false teachers of Jesus as a GOD and His preexistence and teachings of doctrines about demons and devils are all from the apostate churches and are not of the truth. IMO
peace and love to both of you and yours…………………………gene
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