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To All…………I have started this thread to draw out how the image of Jesus as anything other then a HUMAN BEING damages the Work of GOD in humanity. And to show how giving Jesus advantages he never had as something other then a 100 % human being who started His life Just as we do is against both GOD and the work of GOD in Humanity.
I was told once that it doesn't really make a difference in our salvation if Jesus Preexisted or Not. But let me assure you it really does make a difference a big difference. So let look at some of those differences.
God and Humanity.
Was God trying to perfect an already Perfect preexisting being was he trying to show us how he could save and already saved person or was he showing us that He could perfect and save a Human being one of US. No scripture say God took another GOD or demigod or angel or any kind of Being who had not ever sinned and passed him off as a human being not so much as one scripture say that.
How about Jesus himself did he ever say he preexisted as a “BEING” before his berth on the earth No! he did not and to force text where he said he had Glory with the Father before the word began, as him saying he preexisted before he came into existence on the earth is putting words in scriptures where they simply do not exist. These people who push that have no idea of the damage that is causing in the work of GOD with Mankind.
God was and is not dealing with any Angel or demigod who was MORPHED into a Human Being at all never was in FACT.
If we look at Jesus what do we see is the question is it a “INCARNATED” Being of SOME KIND, or a pure Human Being Just like we are? was God demonstrating His salvation to man from a “PREEXISTING ANGEL OR WHAT EVER or from a PURE HUMAN Being. Was it Angels Sins God was dealing with or Man , did God use a MAN to redeem us or a MORPHED ANGEL, Scripture says sense by man Sin interred it was BY A MAN the MAN Jesus Christ MAN was delivered from sin. Notice it does not say by a preexisting being of any kind.
This evil work of SEPARATING Jesus form His Humanity is not the work of God but a work of deception that has Plagued “True Christianity” ever sense it's inset back from the time of the early apostles like John and Paul who were dealing with it then by the false teachings of the GNOSTIC'S. Nearly all Christianity has succumb to this false teaching , All Trinitarians (ARE) PREEXISTENCES TO. They all can be grouped together as those who Preach Jesus Preexisted His Berth on the earth other then in the plan and Will of GOD for the deliverance of Humanity by a Human Being Jesus the Messiah that was fore told to Come in a futuristic sense by GOD and the Prophets. Not one Prophet or GOD ever said he was alive before his berth on this earth, nor did Jesus ever say he was alive Being before his berth either.
All of these false teaching are for one purpose and that is to MOVE JESUS from OUR exact identity and destory the work of God in HUMANITY>
peace and love to you all……………………………………..gene
gene
scriptures tells us the truth ,the fact that you do not understand them this as no impact on the truth of the scriptures,you are just isolating yourself.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.Col 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1:11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.Col 2:6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
Col 2:7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
Col 2:9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
how could a mere man be the son of God ? Adam was the first and lost that position because of is sin,and so no 100% man could save anyone from the wrath of God because all of us are born in sin,and Christ can not be a NEW creation because God has stopped to create after he created Eve and he rested the 7 day,
just rejecting truth and slander other for your own ignorance will not help to come to Christ understanding,
Pierre
Gene! The only begotten of the Father who became Jesus also had the title of The Word of God
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And in
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.Jesus had several titles, God The Word of God, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS…..
Jesus will come back as The Word of God….these Scriptures above says so….
John also tells us this
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:41 ¶ The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Jhn 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Jhn 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
This Scripture too tells us that He is the only begottren of the Father, Jesus….The Word of God….
Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jhn 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
This Scripture this shows us that Jesus is the bead of life…..
Peace Irene
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 18 2011,18:38) Hi Gene: Don't you know by now that you are wasting your time?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyI agree with you Gene should work with the scriptures in stead of inventing things,
you need truth to over turn lies,there is no way that lies can overturn the truth of scriptures
Pierre
Terricca……………First you have to Understand Scriptures to even begin to know them, which is something PREEXISTENCES Like YOURSELF seem unable to do IMO
peace and love……………………………………………………………………….gene
Marty………..Thanks brother but i am one who never seems to know when to quit brother. I love everyone and my hope that maybe God will use me to ignite a spark in them. I miss your posts also brother, we have Frank back to help us and he has posted some good material,
who knows if we might snatch some out of the fire brother, let continue to reach for the prize of the HIGH CALLING given us by GOD and Jesus.peace and love to you and yorus Marty…………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 19 2011,09:57) Terricca……………First you have to Understand Scriptures to even begin to know them, which is something PREEXISTENCES Like YOURSELF seem unable to do IMO peace and love……………………………………………………………………….gene
geneyou right in;;First you have to Understand Scriptures to even begin to know them;;that is what we can see from you and your posting of scriptures ,or your ignorance of them ,
we (Irene and me ) have posted many scriptures but you have only comments like this that amounts to nothing,
Pierre
ED j …………..A Being that has been Changed into a human being from another state of existences. As the Trinitarians who are also Preexistences preach.
peace and love…………………………………………………………………………..
geneHi Gene,
If we all preexisted: that would make us all “morphed beings” then, would it not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED j ……….It sure would brother. I do know all of us (THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE) preexisted in the Plan and Will of GOD from the very foundations of the earth Just like Jesus also did. So in what way God foreknew us that is up in the air I only know i do not recall any Preexistent life whatsoever, But then i am not GOD so to say anything on that would be speculation at best brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene
To all………..Jesus the MAN who came into being by his Berth on this earth through Mary was and is the Promised Messiah the one Moses said would come forth from the Isrealite brothers, and that God would bring forth from them not some other so-called preexistent Morphing process which by the way is no where even mentioned in scripture not so much as one word nor any of his Preexistent activities of any kind all Preexistence-rs are nothing more then Trinitarians with only one difference they don't believe the Preexistence Jesus was A GOD, in fact they don't know what he was because NO SCRIPTURE Say what he was But that is not important to these Brain washed people .
They put down the Trinitarians and they are just the same thing as they are , in fact the Trinitarians are better off becasue at least they see God Presence was with Jesus, which they can't even see. But the truth is Both are just as wrong as each other are one is no better then the other, Jesus was not a MORPHED BEING AT ALL He came into existence by being born on this earth just as you and i are. The only difference is he was a Uniquely born human being , Just as ADAM was also a Uniquely born human being also. He is called the son of God, So was ADAM called the son of God also.
If i were to ask these ignorant Preexistences, was Adam a Preexistent being they would laugh but when it comes to Jesus they insist he was, But ask them what and who was he, they have no idea whatsoever. If ask why did not he tell his disciples he preexisted his berth then they have no answer, surely such an important subject as this would have never been ignored by Jesus or any Apostle they would have told us all about this important issue in clarity, but no mention at all.
peace and love to you all……………………………………………………………….gene
gene
Quote If i were to as these ignorant Preexistences, was Adam a Preexistent being they would laugh but when it comes to Jesus they insist he was, But ask them what and who was he, they have no idea whatsoever. If ask why did not he tell his deciples he preexited his berth then they have no answer, surely such an important subject as this would have never been ignored by Jesus or any Apostle they would have told us all about this important issue in clarity, but no mention at all. now answer my questions ; was Jesus a mere man ? if you say yes ,why,if you say no, why??
if he was a mere men then his father would have been another human right ?
if he is not a mere man because his father is not human but God, right ?
the fact that God has used a women is to make his son ;the son of man as well as the son of God he is both ,right ?? YES
now is Christ an new creation ? or a transformed one ?
what you say gene
Pierre
Pierre…………….Answer my question first , WAS ADAM A MERE MAN?. He is called the “SON of GOD”.
peace and love………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2011,11:14) Pierre…………….Answer my question first , WAS ADAM A MERE MAN?. He is called the “SON of GOD”. peace and love………………………………………………………gene
geneyes he was a mere human even that he was called son of God ,this name was given to him by being the first of human creation,this would be similar to Christ being called son of God because he was the first creation of God ,
so now you can answer my question
Pierre
pierre………..You answered it yourself, “yes he was a mere man” That was your question Pierre. Now if you ask is Christ a New creation don't really know where you are coming from with that question, So i will say Jesus was a Mere Man who obtained to the resurrection from the dead and now sit in the temple of God in heaven, ready to return back to earth for a thousand year reign over the throne of DAVID Here on this EARTH, with the Saints. Because Jesus was the first from mankind to raised to eternal life from mankind doesn not mean he is different the the rest of mankind Pierre. That is where you MORPHED PREEXISTENT thing screws up things becasue it Separates Jesus' identity from the rest of us human being This was never God or Jesus' intent to make a separation of Jesus being simply a Human Being that God both Perfected by His spirit and made him who he is , this was done to give us hope and faith in Him (GOD) and what he can DO for us all. Jesus is the prototype for all mankind because he is the finished product for all of us that God had in mind for his creation of man. Jesus is a MAN you must see him as such nothing more nothing less in human terms he had no advantage over us except God was with him at berth perfecting him for his Prophesied destine
peace and love………………………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2011,12:10) pierre………..You answered it yourself, “yes he was a mere man” That was your question Pierre. Now if you ask is Christ a New creation don't really know where you are coming from with that question, So i will say Jesus was a Mere Man who obtained to the resurrection from the dead and now sit in the temple of God in heaven, ready to return back to earth for a thousand year reign over the throne of DAVID Here on this EARTH, with the Saints. Because Jesus was the first from mankind to raised to eternal life from mankind doesn not mean he is different the the rest of mankind Pierre. That is where you MORPHED PREEXISTENT thing screws up things becasue it Separates Jesus' identity from the rest of us human being This was never God or Jesus' intent to make a separation of Jesus being simply a Human Being that God both Perfected by His spirit and made him who he is , this was done to give us hope and faith in Him (GOD) and what he can DO for us all. Jesus is the prototype for all mankind because he is the finished product for all of us that God had in mind for his creation of man. Jesus is a MAN you must see him as such nothing more nothing less in human terms he had no advantage over us except God was with him at berth perfecting him for his Prophesied destine peace and love………………………………………………………………………gene
geneQuote the fact that God has used a women is to make his son ;the son of man as well as the son of God he is both ,right ?? YES now is Christ an new creation ? or a transformed one ?
what you say gene
Pierre
so you lied to me when you say that you will answer my questions ,you only deployed an array of words without much substance to deviate the answering the questions,
are you going to answer them
Pierre
Pierre, i never “LIED” to you or anyone here, I doubt you even know what the word LIE means. IF YOU THINK i did not answer your question then that iws your problem. Your own word said Jesus was a MERE MAN , you need to read your own posts or try to be more clear on what you are talking about. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2011,15:45) Pierre, i never “LIED” to you or anyone here, I doubt you even know what the word LIE means. IF YOU THINK i did not answer your question then that iws your problem. Your own word said Jesus was a MERE MAN , you need to read your own posts or try to be more clear on what you are talking about. IMO peace and love…………………………………………………..gene
genenow is Christ an new creation ? or a transformed one ? or ?
what you say gene
Pierre
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