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The truth is Nick, the earliest disciples became a “theatrical spectacle to the world.” What they were doing was quite noticeable, and different.
Do you think Jesus' followers would stand out as different? (I'll take your future silence to this question in the affirmative.)
Hi david,
Every denomination believes it is the only way but few express it so openly.
But the traditions of men are an impediment to the ways of God.
Every plant not planted by God is going to be pulled out.Quote Hi david,
Every denomination believes it is the only way but few express it so openly.I think the earliest (the true) Christians did.
I'm quite positive they all were witnesses of Jehovah and of his Son. Would you like a list, from the Bible?
Hi david,
You claim a link to them like the catholics claim a link to Peter?
You need the Spirit they moved in to have the link that matters.Quote You need the Spirit they moved in to have the link that matters. Would the same spirit create the same beliefs, conduct, and actions? I think it would.
Quote (david @ Feb. 26 2009,10:39) The Encyclopedia Canadiana (Under Jehovah’s Witnesses), second paragraph: “The work of Jehovah's Witnesses is the revival and re-establishment of the primitive Christianity practiced by Jesus and his disciples during the first and second centuries of our era. Their services are kept simple. They have no ornate buildings or clerical vestments, no divisions of members into clergy and laity. All are brothers, and every one baptized is under obligation to be a minister.”
(Toronto : Grolier of Canada, c1957-80. Vol 6)
I think the same spirit would create the same actions and results.Hi not3,
Once folks have made a commitment to follow men then the fear of deception and the fear of failure ensure they remain firmly entrenched against all the blessings of freedom in Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2009,15:34) Hi not3,
Once folks have made a commitment to follow men then the fear of deception and the fear of failure ensure they remain firmly entrenched against all the blessings of freedom in Christ.
I do see that some of their beliefs infringe on what I would consider “freedom” in Christ. It's a personal interpretation thing. Otherwise though, they seem pretty in-line with scripture. Their body seems to do a lot of good in the community. And their meetings go a long way in promoting God and his Christ, versus promoting the clergy and it's members. I like that about the JW's.You notice David has yet to refute ONE point in the videos I posted…yet he accuses Nick of dodging his questions
David I challenge you to dispute ONE point in any of the videos or websites listed below…You wont…because you are to much of a drone to DARE watch and peruse these sites
http://www.watchtowercomments.com
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk
I'm sure you want to comment on the silent lambs website again….EVERYONE listen….the leaders of the JW's send out letters to the body of elders of each congregation….these letters..which usually are labeled as confidential (aka don't show this to the rank and file) are usually directives as to how to handle congregation issues…
JW's like to say…”We never protected child molesters..EVER”
Well Well…they said this blatant lie…not anticipating that their INTERNAL directives from the leadership would be made public…
Well guess what…they have 🙂 David has said that the silent lambs site is full of “LIES” (see his last post directed at me)
Well I tell u what…I am here to say that that website is 99% TRUTH…If anybody wants to see the letters with directives from leadership to
“destroy evidence if authoritys supeona them” and also to “NOT report molesters to the police” and other HORRIFIC directives..jus let me know…i will be HAPPY to share them with you…
See what David fails to acknowledge is how many cases are PENDING LITIGATION and CURRENTLY BEING TRIED and also WAITING FOR TRIALS TO BEGIN….and he also fails to mention that WE HAVE NOT TOUCHED ON OTHER COUNTRYS YET…
JW's like to make it seem that they have a small problem when compared with the other religions..i.e. the Catholic Church… what they arent acknowledging is that per capita..they have more reported, alledged, and pending cases of Abuse than any other religion…the reason WE don't hear about it like we hear about the cases with the catholic church
is because the Catholic Church is more WELL KNOWN therefore it gets IMMEDIATE attention…simply put JW's are insignificant to most people….
http://www.watchtowercomments.com
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk
These sites tell the truth about the JW's…plain and simple…
If you want an in-depth view,,please read:
“Crisis of Conscience” by Ray Franz
“In search of Christian Freedom” by Ray Franz
These books are a COMPREHENSIVE look at the entire range of teachings of JW's from an former Governing Body member…
I own the PDF's of both….for anybody truly interested i will be happy to pm you some of the more pointent excepts…
Quote (david @ Feb. 26 2009,10:35) Two thoughts– 1. Why would anyone in any religion belong to that religion if they didn't feel it was the correct religion?
2. The earliest Christians believed exactly that.
There are plenty of religions one can join and thus a man can choose the one that fits best.God has sent his son into the world to destroy the works of the evil one. From this the Church was built and it is not just another religion or organisation with a CEO, financial system, and property. No it is a spiritual body like nothing that the world has come up with.
If one is spiritually minded they will see things of the spirit and be able to discern that which is flesh and that which is spirit.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,18:12) I do see that some of their beliefs infringe on what I would consider “freedom” in Christ. It's a personal interpretation thing. Otherwise though, they seem pretty in-line with scripture. Their body seems to do a lot of good in the community. And their meetings go a long way in promoting God and his Christ, versus promoting the clergy and it's members. I like that about the JW's.
Some of their doctrines may be spot on, but their works are done in their own name and they are another division. That is the real damage in my opinion. It is vanity because it is man.It is better to be lead and filled by the Spirit which they teach against.
Quote (david @ Feb. 27 2009,13:31) The truth is Nick, the earliest disciples became a “theatrical spectacle to the world.” What they were doing was quite noticeable, and different. Do you think Jesus' followers would stand out as different? (I'll take your future silence to this question in the affirmative.)
davidThe earliest disciples were not JWs nor did they have a Watchtower, and they were all filled with the Spirit and awaited the hope from heaven.
Quote (david @ Feb. 24 2009,14:44) I find his comments very interesting as it helps to understand why the hate campaign against JW’s is so great.
david, I don't think there are many people who hate JWs. I think you will find that many of these people hate the deception they weave. Although I do admit that many of these people offer a solution that is no better.I am sure you can also find much negative press on other cults too, such as the Moonies, Mormons, and Christadelphians.
I guess these may be obvious cults, but I think what we have been discussing is the fact that even mainstream Christendom is a cult as they teach the trinity as their foundation.
So if we have been speaking of such things for a while now, what are the chances that such will drop everything and run into a JW hall and ask to join. I would say almost zero, although you never know. Paul did rebuke some believers for starting in grace and going back to the law.
DK,
Men are corrupt, so why would we be surprised to learn that their organizations are the same? I'm not surprised. I don't have to visit all the websites you listed to learn that the JW's are just like any other group who would want to cover their butts in conflict. It's human nature to want to dodge the bullet.
But they do a lot of good as well – it's all we can hope for in a religion. They spread the gospel, feed the poor and so on. No group is perfect. No group will agree with you 100%. I guess that's why I stopped going to church. Now I fellowship with other believer's from time to time. But as far as belonging to a church in a building, I do not.
Thanks for your zeal,
MandyMandy………..Sis all cults do some good, read the account of Jim Jones and see all the good He did in the communities he us involved with. and the utopia Kingdom of God he Preached and all was wonderful until they drank the laced cool aid. I once belonged to the WWCG cult and there is this sense of belonging to the (ONLY) true ones that give one a sense of bless and good fortune, But the facts were quite different and Fear and trepidation was always used on anyone who seriously questioned their teachings. This idea of no longer belonging to the (TRUE ONES) was always at the front of any who had the courage to question them.
The JW's are not different than any other cult, they all do some good, but if you Know the amount of People who have dies as a result of their (no blood transfusions) BS, and the shattered Lives and Broken families as a result you would be shocked. I personally Know a man whose Son needed a Heart operation and would Have easily survived the operation except His JW convictions and His mothers did not allow them to give Him the need blood and He died. He then divorced His wife and He hates any thing to do with the JW”S. So while on the surface you see all this so-called good works underneath there is Horror and Evil at work. It was the same thing with the WWCG I belonged to, they did not believe in doctors either , but i found out Herbert Armstrong Had a full team of Doctors as well as a personal nurse assisting Him. Not even to mention all the other thing that were going on in that cult. These church organizations all do some good , but the evil they do is far greater Sis. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
Quote Fear and trepidation was always used on anyone who seriously questioned their teachings.
Gosh, this sounds and feels so familiar…..
I experience that here.Quote These church organizations all do some good , but the evil they do is far greater Sis. IMO
Sadly, I suppose you are correct.
Peter and the boys seemed to really be able to organize folks well. I wonder where the breakdown happened. I bet it was the idea of selling everything you own and giving to the common good that got folks. Something about building our fences and protecting what is ours….keeps folks from giving it all to God, AND to working in unity with their brothers.I really wonder what Jesus will say on that Day regarding all the churches……
I'm afraid to join any of them.Love,
Mandy
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