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Nick and Gen! If you say what you have you are judging another. We are not to do that, You have already judged yourselves. Whatever David believes has to be up to Him. Tell me something what exactly is wrong with them. ? Yes the feel that they are the only true Church, but so do so many, Catholics, Protestants you name it they all believe that. And do you not believe that you have have the truth? So lets stick with scriptures.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Jehovah Witnesses have a lot of truths. They know who Jehovah is. The belief in Jesus His Son and that He preexsisted. That are the main truths that we need to be saved again and of course to be born again, lets not forget that.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2008,04:31) David……JW's are a cult the operate just like a cult does. They make their believers fell like they are a exclusive special group, the only true ones, they play on this idea, we are the ones who have the real truth and if you belong to our group you are in the in club. Everyone wants to feel special and they make their members feel that way, holding out all kinds of promises for them and a life's blessings,, that's the way cults operate, they exclusify there members as different then the rest of humanity.
Hi Gene,How does this differ from any church in any denomination of Christianity? Or any religion for that matter.
Tim
Tim………There are some religions that believe they are not the (ONLY) real Believers in God, But a Cult convinces its believers they are the only ones and they (only) Have the truth and the rest of other religious organizations are servant of Satan, or just blind. The whole idea is to exclusive there members from others, giving them the feeling of being the (SPECIAL) ones.
IMO………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2008,15:48) Tim………There are some religions that believe they are not the (ONLY) real Believers in God, But a Cult convinces its believers they are the only ones and they (only) Have the truth and the rest of other religious organizations are servant of Satan, or just blind. The whole idea is to exclusive there members from others, giving them the feeling of being the (SPECIAL) ones. IMO………gene
I am sure that you are right Gene. I am not familiar with all religions.
But I have attended many denominations of the Christian church over the years and each of them thought that they had the truth, and all others were left out.
They all quoted “many are called but few are chosen” Of course they were the chosen.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 13 2008,09:57) Hi Gene, Are they all cults?
tim
They all have their own culture that is why they have different names. Instead of seeing the Kingdom of God, they prefer the works of their own hands.That is not to say that God's people do not exist in them. They do. But if they wish to be free, then the truth will set them free. The creeds, doctrines, and rules of these organisations will only bind.
Hi david,
You said this in another thread.
“I believe a lot are saying and not doing. I believe a big part of what God wants us to do, is to preach the good news of the kingdom to as many as will hear. (Mat 28:19,20; Mat 24:14) How many make an active effort to reach everyone?Mandy, these ones that are saying “Lord, Lord” actually truly believe that they are doing what is acceptable. But they have deceived themselves, or allowed themselves to be deceived. (2 cor 4:4)”
But the JWs do not just bring their version of the bible but their belief in the teachings of the Watchtower. Does your comment still apply? Are they doing what they were instructed by the master to do? Did he say bring your traditions too?
Quote Did he say bring your traditions too? Nick, JW's have shed so many traditions and beliefs that were rooted in paganism. Have you left your traditions behind?
And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.–Heb 10:24,25
Some have the custom, or habit of forsaking gathering together with fellow believers. Nick, how is that going for you? You don't consider the confusion and contradiction of this forum the place where we 'encourage one another' do you?
MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””Of course, this is what i was refering to when I said: “I believe a lot are saying and not doing.”
Here, we're discussing scriptures. We're not “preaching the good news of the kingdom” or making disciples or “teaching them.”Jesus set the example. We are to follow him. And “he ordered us to preach to the people….” (Acts 10:42)
To my knowledge, only one group on the planet is unitedly preaching the good news of the kingdom, in hundreds of languages and hundreds of lands.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”Quote Are they doing what they were instructed by the master to do?
I think we should all begin by asking ourself that question Nick.Quote Are they doing what they were instructed by the master to do? Did he say bring your traditions too? –nik
Nick, it's almost as if someone is paying you to say this stuff. You said the same on page one:
Quote Like all traditions they do not seek to correct what is false but use scriptural distortions to rationalise and justify what they teach. Note what Rejoycing (someone who actually seems to have reason to know what she's talking about) said on the 3d post on the first page of this thread:
“Also the fact that so many speak so negatively about the JWs is a reason to believe that they may be right. I have had people vehemently oppose them when I mentioned my study of the JWs and USUALLY WHAT THEY BELIEVE ABOUT THEM IS WRONG.”
“there will be no perfect church but I believe over the years I COULD SEE EVIDENCE THAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE which they have been greatly criticized for instead of praised for realizing that a teaching was wrong and needed to be changed.”
Quote es the feel that they are the only true Church, but so do so many, Seek, why would anyone be a part of a religion that they didn't feel was true?
Did not the earliest Christians believe they were the only true congregation of God's people?http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/
David have you ever looked at the fallacy of what we used to believe? Have a look if you are really seeking truth..
Blessings, David
Quote (david @ Sep. 10 2008,19:15) Seek, why would anyone be a part of a religion that they didn't feel was true?
Did not the earliest Christians believe they were the only true congregation of God's people?
david,I can assure you that many feel that their religion is true and that is why they are involved.
But the truth is that no organisation in this world is exclusively the Body of Christ. The body is a temple made up of those with God's Spirit dwelling therein whose head is Christ. It is not like anything in this world and having the JWs and the UN in the same city with headquarters etc, is just 2 organisations of the world.
Christians 2000 or so years ago were not called Jehovah Witnesses. It seems to me that you must believe that the Body of Christ gave it self a name a couple hundred or so years ago, and decided on Jehovah Witness.
If you believe that or something similar, then can I ask you what the name of the Body of Christ was say 500 years ago, and can you show a link between the two?
Quote (david @ Sep. 10 2008,18:58) Quote Did he say bring your traditions too? Nick, JW's have shed so many traditions and beliefs that were rooted in paganism. Have you left your traditions behind?
And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.–Heb 10:24,25
Some have the custom, or habit of forsaking gathering together with fellow believers. Nick, how is that going for you? You don't consider the confusion and contradiction of this forum the place where we 'encourage one another' do you?
MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””Of course, this is what i was refering to when I said: “I believe a lot are saying and not doing.”
Here, we're discussing scriptures. We're not “preaching the good news of the kingdom” or making disciples or “teaching them.”Jesus set the example. We are to follow him. And “he ordered us to preach to the people….” (Acts 10:42)
To my knowledge, only one group on the planet is unitedly preaching the good news of the kingdom, in hundreds of languages and hundreds of lands.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”Quote Are they doing what they were instructed by the master to do?
I think we should all begin by asking ourself that question Nick.
the Mormons are just as active and in just as many countries, and in their view, just as “united”…. does that make them the “one true religion”? Or would that be 2 churches that have the “one true religion”? But then, that would be contradictory, for they do not agree with one another as to what constitutes “truth”. Therefore, we have to have another standard for determining what the true church is, other than who has the most aggressive and prolific advertising program and salesmen selling their brand of religion.blessings,
kenQuote (david @ Sep. 10 2008,19:13) Quote Are they doing what they were instructed by the master to do? Did he say bring your traditions too? –nik
Nick, it's almost as if someone is paying you to say this stuff. You said the same on page one:
Quote Like all traditions they do not seek to correct what is false but use scriptural distortions to rationalise and justify what they teach. Note what Rejoycing (someone who actually seems to have reason to know what she's talking about) said on the 3d post on the first page of this thread:
“Also the fact that so many speak so negatively about the JWs is a reason to believe that they may be right. I have had people vehemently oppose them when I mentioned my study of the JWs and USUALLY WHAT THEY BELIEVE ABOUT THEM IS WRONG.”
“there will be no perfect church but I believe over the years I COULD SEE EVIDENCE THAT CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE which they have been greatly criticized for instead of praised for realizing that a teaching was wrong and needed to be changed.”
again, people speaking negatively about one's beliefs is not a standard for truth…. if so, I would be one of the most theologically correct people at this site, simply because my views are spoken of so negatively by the majority of posters here at this site. Further, the Mormons are also spoken of very negatively by some, believe they are misunderstood, etc, but that doesn't make them the one true religion, any more than it makes Jehovah's Witnesses the one true religion.blessings,
kenQuote (david @ Sep. 10 2008,19:15) Quote es the feel that they are the only true Church, but so do so many, Seek, why would anyone be a part of a religion that they didn't feel was true?
Did not the earliest Christians believe they were the only true congregation of God's people?
Hi David:Christianity is not a religion, but a personal relationship with God through His Son and His Christ.
God will confirm His Word with miracles and signs and wonders following if what is being taught is His Word, and this is the true church because it is God that is saying that what is being taught is correct. This is the church to which you and I should belong.
Quote Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.God Bless
“Watchtower Society Affiliation Is Needed for Salvation
Salvation requires maintaining union with Christ (through Watchtower Society affiliation): “However, we can fail, for Jesus said: ‘If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up.’—John 15:6.”21 According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, affiliation with the Watchtower Society is essential. The Watchtower magazine urges readers to “come to Jehovah’s organization [the Watchtower Society] for salvation.” (15, Nov. 1981, p21) According to the December 1, 1981 issue, “unless we are in touch with this channel of communication [the Watchtower Society] that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.” (p27) Moreover, “to receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization [the Watchtower Society] and serve God as a part of it.” (15, Feb. 1983, p12-13) (Chafer Theological Seminary. (2000; 2002). Chafer Theological Seminary Journal Volume 6 (6:6). Chafer Theological Seminary.)
Anyone that teaches that you have to go through another human in order to be saved, even if the human in question claims to be “God's instrument of salvation”, which is the case for all false prophets, for they all claim to be speaking for God….. these claims must be rejected as coming from a false prophet. The test for being a true prophet is set in the Bible, and the JW organization failed this test by their many false prophecies… Deuteronomy 18:22 (ESV)
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.”The accounts of the many failed prophecies made by the Watchtower Organization are many, one listing of these prophecies is here: http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm
We have one mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ. It is to Him alone that we go for salvation. The Watchtower tract publishing house cannot save you, their organization headquartered in Bethel New York cannot save you, good works cannot save you…. only Jesus can… cast yourself solely on Him….
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee;
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure;
Save from wrath and make me pure.Not the labor of my hands
Can fulfill Thy law’s demands;
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears forever flow,
All for sin could not atone;
Thou must save, and Thou alone.Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to the cross I cling;
Naked, come to Thee for dress;
Helpless look to Thee for grace;
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.While I draw this fleeting breath,
When mine eyes shall close in death,
When I soar to worlds unknown,
See Thee on Thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.– Augustus M. Toplady, 1775
blessings,
ken
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