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Hi david,
Was Peter speaking of spiritual authorities or temporal?
The same man who told you to obey the temporal.Yes it's “Peter.”
So, now that you've found the scripture, let's try to grasp the most basic, simplest, truth from it.
If an authority tells you to not speak to others about God Nick, what would you do?
Quote Hi david,
If you have found statements in scripture that say Jesus is an angel then we would love to share them. But we have no interest in speculations if you cannot show such scriptural proofs.
Nick,
Nowhere does it say in scripture that God is a 'trinity' yet the speculation seems to be an accepted belief among secular christian denominations…Hi and welcome nephrite,
Traditions of men have always carried more weight.
Others would impose more commandments on men in the vain hope of impressing God.Quote (Nephite @ Mar. 09 2008,16:25) Quote Hi david,
If you have found statements in scripture that say Jesus is an angel then we would love to share them. But we have no interest in speculations if you cannot show such scriptural proofs.
Nick,
Nowhere does it say in scripture that God is a 'trinity' yet the speculation seems to be an accepted belief among secular christian denominations…
Welcome, but not everybody believes in the trinity doctrine, that post here. Nick does not and neither do I.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2008,08:01) I think a bit more research would be good, t8. Only 1 out of 200 Mormons are engaged in the ministry. True, that 1 out of 200 goes hard core for a couple years, and then, they're done.
You won't find them in countries preaching where it is illegal to do so. JW's are currently preaching in 30 countries where this is the case.
Unlike the 1 out of 200, ALL JW's witness about Jehovah, his son and his kingdom. They are all preachers of the good news. We don't just send out a few to other countries.
And, I believe the mormon's aren't as spread out in their preaching as you may think.
So like I said, your faith is based on the premise that the JWs are the true Church because they actively witness from door to door.So maybe vacuum cleaner sales men are the true Church based on that?
What about TBN, the probably broadcast to more people than the JWs with their door knocking. The Trinity Broadcasting Network broadcasts to many countries in many continents.
Or what about the Armstrong WWC. Their magazines may have even out distributed the Watchtower ones.
david, your understanding of the Body of Christ is not sound. That is why you continue to divided the body by perpetuating the ridiculous scenario that you belong to the only true Church or organisation of Yahweh, or at least consider that you are part of the best, or the one with the truth. You know that many denominations do that and surely you can see the damage that this does in the eyes of the world. But I don't expect that you will repent and I do not expect that many other denominations will either because they are all right in their own eyes and I think it wise for anyone who has ears to hear to not be involved in this sad state of affairs. It is a trap and there is no reward waiting for you. Just years of service (even your best years) and only to serve an organisations rather than God. What a waste of a life.
I have come to expect that these so-called true churches and organisations will continue to believe and teach that they are the truth, the best, the way and that they will continue to enslave many. But all who perpetuate this will be judged for it because they block the way for many to enter into the Kingdom by the bad witness they give the world They exchange the Kingdom of God for a circus for fools and then try and convince men that this circus is the Kingdom. Bad idea david. You turn men away from God. When you say your organisation is the true one, then even a mildly intelligent person can do the maths. Well he is one of 50,000 groups that claim to be the truth. You get the idea.
david if you were not so brainwashed you would see clearly that the JWs could not possibly be the true Body of Christ. In the same way that you may look at Mormons and feel sorry for them because they believe that they are the true Church, they equally think the same for you.
Here is how ridiculous this whole scenario is and yet you and million of others continue to keep it going.
- Mormons believe they are the true Church.
- Armstrongs WWC or whatever that one is called considers themselves to be the true Church albeit a great falling away so that one denomination remains the true flock.
- Moonies believe they are the true Church.
- The RCC believe they are the true Church although consider Protestants as cousins or Christians outside the Church.
- ect, etc, etc, etc…
You know the list goes on david and here you are in the midst of this great mess contributing to it everyday. You should repent but your mind is taken captive. You are in captivity david, but what is it that can set you and others free?
It is the truth that can set you free and the word contains the truth that can make blind people see.
Scripture says this about the true Church:
- It is the Body of Christ.
- Christ is the head and therefore if Christ is in you then you are part of the Church whether you know it or not.
- Those who are filled with the Spirit are the living stones that make up the temple called the Church
- The Church is not described anywhere as being a denomination, it is in fact like nothing of this world.
- The Church is not like organisations you see in the world because it is part of God's Kingdom.
- The Church is made up of Apostles, Prophets, etc and there are many gifts of the Spirit poured out to those who belong.
The point david is that the Church is not as worldy people would expect. There is no CEO, COO, President, Financial Centre, Building, Tower, or corporation. Yet the above have these features. These things are of the world.
david you need the Spirit in order to see the true Church. If you had the Spirit then you could connect with those that have the Spirit, but I wonder if you even believe in the one Spirit that unites the Church?
In response I expect you to say, well the Church isn't certainly a bunch or rag-tag outcasts who all differ on points of doctrine? But the answer to that one is quite simple david. The Church is captive in Babylon. But the word is “come out of her MY people”. The word is not “Join the JWs”, or “join the Mormons” david.
So we who believe that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God, should come out of these prisons of mens traditions and get back to the basics, and then after drinking the true milk, we may become mature enough to eat the meat.
This is the situation. There is a big mess out there, and it is going to take true apostles, prophets, teachers, elders, etc to perfect the saints and bring them into unity.
So are you part of the problem or are you going to be part of the solution? We are not talking about starting up another pathetic organisation of man, rather believing in what the word says and doing what the word says. We are not even starting from a point of a creed or having all the answers.
David if you could only see how ridiculous it is when these groups all claim to be the right one. Even logically speaking the stats are against each one. Perhaps 50 thousand to one that they are the right one. But the truth is that none of them are the Church or the Body of Christ. They may contain true believers, but believers need to come out of the traditions of men because they are the fences and bars of a prison. They need to walk away and start listening to and speaking to God through Jesus.
Are you willing to be used of God? You first need the Spirit of God, this is not a new command. You can see it written for yourself. If your doctrine cannot allow you, then you are a prisoner.
Jesus actually wondered if there would be faith when he returned? When he comes back, what will he find? Will he see that they have all gone astray? They are in Babylon? That indeed there will be faith and victory? That is entirely up to those who believe that Jesus is the messiah and the son of God.
Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2008,08:01) My Bible based belief doesn't really allow for this scenerio, where “all the countries were Christian” or where all people in all the countries actually live by Bible standards.
Nowhere are we given any idea that every person in one country would be God's servants. While we must live in the world, as Paul said, but we are not of the world. And so while things like governments exist for example, they will be destroyed by God's kingdom. So why be a part of something that God has determined to destroy?
OK, so if Israel is attacked by Moslem forces, then the Israelites should let them take over? Have I deduced correctly from your words.If so, then the God of Israel doesn't sound like your God does it. What about the 6day war. Did God give the Israelis the victory even though they were outnumbered 40-1 and had million dollar Russian made missiles aimed at them? Or did they win because they got lucky?
Does God fight for Israel in war? Let's start here.
Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2008,08:01) Quote I think your doctrine (without you being aware) maybe judging God as evil. For if God has used or raised up the USA , Israel, UK, or whatever for a purpose, then you are really saying that it was all the Devil.
I think this will clarify: The Bible is right when it says Satan is the ruler of the world and all that. God is “allowing” this to take place–to show us that we need his rule. And God knew what would happen and knew what different nations would do and how they would act, under satan's influence.
But Jesus words were pretty clear, about satan and all the kingdoms of the world.
And all of this happened before the victory over darkness.Before Jesus died and embarrassed the power of darkness, God worked through Israel. Israel was used by him to show the nations that he was indeed God.
Now the season is different. The Jews have a temporary blindness on them and God is working through the gentiles. There are many gentile nations and God can work through them if he chooses as he did with Israel in Old Testament times.
I just think that you should be careful to not judge God. If God does a work and by reason of a doctrine you call it evil, then that is not good. So your stance regarding WWII and letting Hitler take over rather than nations defending themselves against him is just your opinion and I would be careful about judging such things.
If God gave the allies victory over that antichrist called Hitler, then your belief makes God out to be evil.
All I am saying david is to be wise. I am not telling you what to believe regarding this, but just to tread carefully and be wise. For surely you cannot see as God does.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2008,21:45) Quote (david @ Mar. 09 2008,08:01) I think a bit more research would be good, t8. Only 1 out of 200 Mormons are engaged in the ministry. True, that 1 out of 200 goes hard core for a couple years, and then, they're done.
You won't find them in countries preaching where it is illegal to do so. JW's are currently preaching in 30 countries where this is the case.
Unlike the 1 out of 200, ALL JW's witness about Jehovah, his son and his kingdom. They are all preachers of the good news. We don't just send out a few to other countries.
And, I believe the mormon's aren't as spread out in their preaching as you may think.
So like I said, your faith is based on the premise that the JWs are the true Church because they actively witness from door to door.So maybe vacuum cleaner sales men are the true Church based on that?
What about TBN, the probably broadcast to more people than the JWs with their door knocking. The Trinity Broadcasting Network broadcasts to many countries in many continents.
Or what about the Armstrong WWC. Their magazines may have even out distributed the Watchtower ones.
david, your understanding of the Body of Christ is not sound. That is why you continue to divided the body by perpetuating the ridiculous scenario that you belong to the only true Church or organisation of Yahweh, or at least consider that you are part of the best, or the one with the truth. You know that many denominations do that and surely you can see the damage that this does in the eyes of the world. But I don't expect that you will repent and I do not expect that many other denominations will either because they are all right in their own eyes and I think it wise for anyone who has ears to hear to not be involved in this sad state of affairs. It is a trap and there is no reward waiting for you. Just years of service (even your best years) and only to serve an organisations rather than God. What a waste of a life.
I have come to expect that these so-called true churches and organisations will continue to believe and teach that they are the truth, the best, the way and that they will continue to enslave many. But all who perpetuate this will be judged for it because they block the way for many to enter into the Kingdom by the bad witness they give the world They exchange the Kingdom of God for a circus for fools and then try and convince men that this circus is the Kingdom. Bad idea david. You turn men away from God. When you say your organisation is the true one, then even a mildly intelligent person can do the maths. Well he is one of 50,000 groups that claim to be the truth. You get the idea.
david if you were not so brainwashed you would see clearly that the JWs could not possibly be the true Body of Christ. In the same way that you may look at Mormons and feel sorry for them because they believe that they are the true Church, they equally think the same for you.
Here is how ridiculous this whole scenario is and yet you and million of others continue to keep it going.
- Mormons believe they are the true Church.
- Armstrongs WWC or whatever that one is called considers themselves to be the true Church albeit a great falling away so that one denomination remains the true flock.
- Moonies believe they are the true Church.
- The RCC believe they are the true Church although consider Protestants as cousins or Christians outside the Church.
- ect, etc, etc, etc…
You know the list goes on david and here you are in the midst of this great mess contributing to it everyday. You should repent but your mind is taken captive. You are in captivity david, but what is it that can set you and others free?
It is the truth that can set you free and the word contains the truth that can make blind people see.
Scripture says this about the true Church:
- It is the Body of Christ.
- Christ is the head and therefore if Christ is in you then you are part of the Church whether you know it or not.
- Those who are filled with the Spirit are the living stones that make up the temple called the Church
- The Church is not described anywhere as being a denomination, it is in fact like nothing of this world.
- The Church is not like organisations you see in the world because it is part of God's Kingdom.
- The Church is made up of Apostles, Prophets, etc and there are many gifts of the Spirit poured out to those who belong.
The point david is that the Church is not as worldy people would expect. There is no CEO, COO, President, Financial Centre, Building, Tower, or corporation. Yet the above have these features. These things are of the world.
david you need the Spirit in order to see the true Church. If you had the Spirit then you could connect with those that have the Spirit, but I wonder if you even believe in the one Spirit that unites the Church?
In response I expect you to say, well the Church isn't certainly a bunch or rag-tag outcasts who all differ on points of doctrine? But the answer to that one is quite simple david. The Church is captive in Babylon. But the word is “come out of her MY people”. The word is not “Join the JWs”, or “join the Mormons” david.
So we who believe that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God, should come out of these prisons of mens traditions and get back to the basics, and then after drinking the true milk, we may become mature enough to eat the meat.
This is the situation. There is a big mess out there, and it is going to take true apostles, prophets, teachers, elders, etc to perfect the saints and bring them into unity.
So are you part of the problem or are you going to be part of the solution? We are not talking about starting up another pathetic organisation of man, rather believing in what the word says and doing what the word says. We are not even starting from a point of a creed or having all the answers.
David if you could only see how ridiculous it is when these groups all claim to be the right one. Even logically speaking the stats are against each one. Perhaps 50 thousand to one that they are the right one. But the truth is that none of them are the Church or the Body of Christ. They may contain true believers, but believers need to come out of the traditions of men because they are the fences and bars of a prison. They need to walk away and start listening to and speaking to God through Jesus.
Are you willing to be used of God? You first need the Spirit of God, this is not a new command. You can see it written for yourself. If your doctrine cannot allow you, then you are a prisoner.
Jesus actually wondered if there would be faith when he returned? When he comes back, what will he find? Will he see that they have all gone astray? They are in Babylon? That indeed there will be faith and victory? That is entirely up to those who believe that Jesus is the messiah and the son of God.
t8……………amen brother.Quote “So like I said, your faith is based on the premise that the JWs are the true Church because they actively witness from door to door.
So maybe vacuum cleaner sales men are the true Church based on that?”No, but the true faith would have to be preaching the good news in all the nations. The scripture doesn’t say: “And vacuum cleaner salemen will sell to people in all nations and then the end….”
It says:
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”Quote “What about TBN, the probably broadcast to more people than the JWs with their door knocking. The Trinity Broadcasting Network broadcasts to many countries in many continents.” First, you’d have to turn on the radio wouldn’t you, and to that right channel, that is, if you own one. It’s much like ringing the church bells. Jesus’ disciples didn’t wait around for people to come to them, or did they?. They thought the message was important enough to take it….to everyone.
And NO, T8, they do not reach more people, in any way.
Wikipedia: “It claims five million viewer households per week in the U.S. TBN is carried on over 275 television stations in the U.S. and on thousands of other cable television systems around the world in 75 countries, where its programs are translated into eleven languages.”Reality check:
TBN “broadcasts” in 75 countries, for those who listen, in 11 language.
JW’s preach and “teach” (mat 28:19,20) in 230 countries in 170 languages or so. (The Watchtower is published in 167 languages simultaneously, for example. But of course, we preach in more languages than that.)Continuing:
Quote Or what about the Armstrong WWC. Their magazines may have even out distributed the Watchtower ones. Again, you’re wrong. I don’t even feel like checking this one, as I’m sure you haven’t either, again, but sources have listed “The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom” as the “most widely distributed religious journal on the planet.”
And, that is what you would expect if the kingdom is to be preached in all the inhabited earth.Quote david, your understanding of the Body of Christ is not sound. That is why you continue to divided the body by perpetuating the ridiculous scenario that you belong to the only true Church or organisation of Yahweh, or at least consider that you are part of the best, or the one with the truth. You know that many denominations do that and surely you can see the damage that this does in the eyes of the world Actually T8, the truth is we are completely separate from that mess of “Christendom.” Most or many people don’t even consider us Christians, because we are so far removed from what they believe. In the eyes of the world, we are the least, the refuse. Misguided fools. But, of course, that is how it would have to be.
Quote I have come to expect that these so-called true churches and organisations will continue to believe and teach that they are the truth, the best, the way and that they will continue to enslave many. But all who perpetuate this will be judged for it because they block the way for many to enter into the Kingdom by the bad witness they give the world They exchange the Kingdom of God for a circus for fools and then try and convince men that this circus is the Kingdom. Bad idea david. You turn men away from God. When you say your organisation is the true one, then even a mildly intelligent person can do the maths. Well he is one of 50,000 groups that claim to be the truth. You get the idea. I say nothing more than the first Christians, true Christians, did.
And it is a fallacy to say that all are false because most must be. Can’t think of the name of that fallacy, but it is a fallacy.Continuing:
Quote david if you were not so brainwashed you would see clearly that the JWs could not possibly be the true Body of Christ. In the same way that you may look at Mormons and feel sorry for them because they believe that they are the true Church, they equally think the same for you. The thing is T8, the entire world is brainwashed, or at least blinded to the truth. The entire system of things. (2 cor 4:4) The whole world T8, is lying in the power of the wicked one, with the exception of those who are “no part of the world.” I believe that many can not see clearly, as you say, because the whole WORLD is “blinded” by Satan and his political, commercial, entertainment systems of things.
In speaking of the last days, Jesus said that they would be like the days of Noah. Men or the vast majority would “take no note” of what was going one, despite the preaching of the good news, in all the nations. Why? They allow themselves to be blinded.Quote Here is how ridiculous this whole scenario is and yet you and million of others continue to keep it going.
# Mormons believe they are the true Church.
# Armstrongs WWC or whatever that one is called considers themselves to be the true Church albeit a great falling away so that one denomination remains the true flock.
# Moonies believe they are the true Church.
# The RCC believe they are the true Church although consider Protestants as cousins or Christians outside the Church.
# ect, etc, etc, etc…
You know the list goes on david and here you are in the midst of this great mess contributing to it everyday. You should repent but your mind is taken captive. You are in captivity david, but what is it that can set you and others free?I’ve already pointed out the ERROR or FALLACY of this thinking. But maybe you need an example to understand
Example: Many have said they were the Christ. Many false Christs arrose. Countless ones. I guess that means there is no true Christ, according to your flawed logic.Quote In response I expect you to say, well the Church isn't certainly a bunch or rag-tag outcasts who all differ on points of doctrine? But the answer to that one is quite simple david. The Church is captive in Babylon. But the word is “come out of her MY people”. The word is not “Join the JWs”, or “join the Mormons” david. And when you do come out of Babylon and leave behind all the babylonian beliefs (trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, worship of cross, etc, etc) where does that leave you? It should leave you worshipping the only true God, in spirit and truth. (John 4:23) And you will be a part of God’s “people.” And if you have really found the truth, then presumably you are not the only one. Presumably, there will be more than one person who has a right heart and who God draws to him. And so, they will believe the same things.
You know T8, nowhere in the Greek scriptures does it say: “Join the Christians.” Yet, if you were an israelite living back then, what would have been required of you in Jesus time to be acceptable to God?Quote So we who believe that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God, should come out of these prisons of mens traditions and get back to the basics, and then after drinking the true milk, we may become mature enough to eat the meat.
This is the situation. There is a big mess out there, and it is going to take true apostles, prophets, teachers, elders, etc to perfect the saints and bring them into unityNo it won’t. The “saints” or “holy ones” are already in unity. They always have been. And while it is a “big mess out there” it is not a big mess in the Christian congregation.
Quote So are you part of the problem or are you going to be part of the solution? We are not talking about starting up another pathetic organisation of man, rather believing in what the word says and doing what the word says. We are not even starting from a point of a creed or having all the answers. JW’s don’t have a creed. “Doing what the word says.” Jesus said: “Go, therefore and make disicples of people of all the nations….” (Mat 28:19,20) JW’s are doing that all over the world, in many languages, nations and tongues.
Quote David if you could only see how ridiculous it is when these groups all claim to be the right one. Even logically speaking the stats are against each one. Perhaps 50 thousand to one that they are the right one. OK, I can see you are having trouble with this idea. Jesus came and showed us the way. Satan came and showed us thousands of different ways. Just because there are many false ways, many false roads, does not mean there are no right ones, does it?
Yes, logically speaking the stats are against each one. But also, logically speaking, the fact that there are many false does not necessite that they all are.
T8, for you to be born, your parents had to meet. Wait, no, your grandparents first had to meet, no, wait, all your sets of grandparents and great grandparents had to meet, get married, etc. And then there’s the right sperm finding it’s way to the egg. T8, logically speaking, it is millions to one that you would exist. Yet, there you are.
And not only that, but here we all are. Billions of miracles. Billions of highly improbable things happening all the time. To quote you, “logically speaking the stats are against each one.”
Anyway, my point for the third time, is that despite throwing the word “logically” in there, your belief that many false things mean they are all false is flawed and false.Quote But the truth is that none of them are the Church or the Body of Christ. They may contain true believers, but believers need to come out of the traditions of men because they are the fences and bars of a prison. They need to walk away and start listening to and speaking to God through Jesus. OK, and let’s say they did this. And let’s say they were not only avoiding the bad things, but were also doing what Jesus foretold, preaching the good news in all the nations. They’d have to be organized. Oh, wait, they are.
Quote Jesus actually wondered if there would be faith when he returned? When he comes back, what will he find? Will he see that they have all gone astray? They are in Babylon?
I seriously think you need to give this speech to Nick, who is still in Babylon and teaches one of it’s prime beliefs, a God dishonouring, God slandering belief. Yet, I’ve never seen you give Nick this speech and the proof is undeniable that he believes one of Satan’s most heinous lies against God. This makes me think you are blinded too and part of the mess you speak of.T8, your other post:
Quote OK, so if Israel is attacked by Moslem forces, then the Israelites should let them take over? Have I deduced correctly from your words. Apparently not. I think you missed the “that scenerio would never happen” part. Israel would never do that. Fleshly Israel is no longer God’s people. They fight with bullets now, not marching around with horns. God’s made an agreement (covenant) with them. They broke it. Jesus instituted a new covenant. True, many of the Israel of God (spiritual Israel) have come from fleshly Israel, Paul for example.
I don’t know of any nation today that would do that.Quote If so, then the God of Israel doesn't sound like your God does it. What about the 6day war. Did God give the Israelis the victory even though they were outnumbered 40-1 and had million dollar Russian made missiles aimed at them? Or did they win because they got lucky? Don’t know anything about that war. I am reminded of when they marched around the city with horns, jars and torches and the walls fell–hardly instruments of classical warefare. I do know that today, the Israelites use bullets.
On another occasion singers were positioned at the front of an Israelite army that was facing an overwhelming force of invading armies from several nations.—Judges 7:17-22; 2 Chronicles 20:10-26.
That whole “the God of Israel doesn’t sound like your God does it” annoys me. Jehovah is sometimes pictured as a loving Father, sometimes as a judge, sometimes as a king. He can be many things, just as a judge can execute much judgment and then come home to his family and be a loving father.Quote I just think that you should be careful to not judge God. If God does a work and by reason of a doctrine you call it evil, then that is not good.
Sorry, where did I do this? While the earth belongs to Jehovah, it is Satan that God is allowing to rule (for a time) and it is Satan that is responsible for the suffering, and incomprehensible pain that has been caused by the world's wars over pride, greed, and money. It is not God.
And if anyone I would say it is you who slander his holy name by indicating that he has anything to do with these things.david
Hi david,
You boast of the fact that others find your Watchtower way totally bizarre and drenched in human wisdom and foolish logic as if being shown these things was evidence it was the path of truth?Quote So your stance regarding WWII and letting Hitler take over rather than nations defending themselves against him is just your opinion and I would be careful about judging such things. I don't remeber ever saying “let hitler take over.”
What I actually did say was “What does a Christian have to do with the world or it's wars”?Quote If God gave the allies victory over that antichrist called Hitler, then your belief makes God out to be evil. I'm not sure how you conclude that. And I don't believe God is fighting for either side.
Side note: I've been to the National Haloucaust Museaum in Washinton. It is sickening.Quote Hi david,
You boast of the fact that others find you way bizarre and drenched in human wisdom and foolish logic
as if being shown these things was evidence it was the path of truth?Nick, your complete MISrepresentation of everything I say continues to astound me, despite the many years.
I have seen others on here get frustrated over you doing this with them.
I do not remember boasting of “human wisdom” nor “foolish logic.”David……JW's are a cult the operate just like a cult does. They make their believers fell like they are a exclusive special group, the only true ones, they play on this idea, we are the ones who have the real truth and if you belong to our group you are in the in club. Everyone wants to feel special and they make their members feel that way, holding out all kinds of promises for them and a life's blessings,, that's the way cults operate, they exclusify there members as different then the rest of humanity.
God's going to save their little group and dump the rest of humanity, Another thing while i am at it whats with the name Jehovah, when i pray should i say Jehovah or Father, If your going to make a relegion out of a name why not use what Jesus used, I never heard him say our Jehovah which art in heaven, even if that were His real name. It would be like me going to may earthly Father and saying Andrew I need to talk with you, He would think I was nuts. You people make a religion around a name
where are we told to do that. David you are in a cult, rather you believe or not. And the plague is their control over your lifes. They have you serving them all the while having you believe your serving God, thats the way CULT”S operate.IMO……gene
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