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A quick search of my Bible tells me that “Father” appears 1422 times. Of course, not all these times would be referring to Jehovah.
God's name, appears some 7000 times in the Hebrew scriptures alone.
Were the Bible writers showing a lack of respect? ARe their views wrong?
Quote (seekingtruth @ June 29 2008,06:10) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,00:56) Quote it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. –seeking
“For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.”–micah
Acts 15:14: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”
SeekingT, how do you feel about this scripture?
Isa. 12:4: “Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”
David what do you think of the “Spirit of sonship”Wm
Hi Seeking.I'll answer your question if you answer mine. The scriptures I quoted.
Quote (david @ June 29 2008,05:52) Quote David I agree that it was wrong to replace Jehovah with Lord in scriptures but it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. I have not said this to offend you and I apologize if I have. Just expressing an observation. Seeking truth, how important is God's name to you?
Some call him Father Christmas and others call him Santa. Does that difference matter?Stuart
Quote (david @ June 29 2008,02:02) Quote (seekingtruth @ June 29 2008,06:10) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,00:56) Quote it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. –seeking
“For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.”–micah
Acts 15:14: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”
SeekingT, how do you feel about this scripture?
Isa. 12:4: “Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”
David what do you think of the “Spirit of sonship”Wm
Hi Seeking.I'll answer your question if you answer mine. The scriptures I quoted.
David,
Sorry for the delay I just noticed I had not responded to your request for a response (I had started one but never finished it and have lost it since).I'm unsure if your asking about the one above or below, I'll answer for both.
In my opinion all OT references to calling on His name etc. was establishing a personal relationship with The Almightly God (much as you have made reference to calling friends by their name)
Once in the NT we have a Spirit of sonship and now being “part of the family” as it were we now call Him the titles reserved for those who are part of a family.
As to the NT scripture you referenced “to take out of them a people for his name.” to me it reads much as translated by the NIV 14Simom has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
I want to be clear I have no problem with the JW's calling themselves after the Father, or using the name of Jehovah (especially when talking to unbelievers) and if they want to call the Father by His name during their prayers that in my opinion is between them and the Father and frankly none of my business.
What I was addressing was at least the perception of JW's condemnation on those not “calling on Jehovah” by name. If wrong I apologize, I do not see this as an issue to be argued over just state your opinion then agree to dis-agree.
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ July 11 2008,12:08) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,02:02) Quote (seekingtruth @ June 29 2008,06:10) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,00:56) Quote it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. –seeking
“For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.”–micah
Acts 15:14: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.”
SeekingT, how do you feel about this scripture?
Isa. 12:4: “Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”
David what do you think of the “Spirit of sonship”Wm
Hi Seeking.I'll answer your question if you answer mine. The scriptures I quoted.
David,
Sorry for the delay I just noticed I had not responded to your request for a response (I had started one but never finished it and have lost it since).I'm unsure if your asking about the one above or below, I'll answer for both.
In my opinion all OT references to calling on His name etc. was establishing a personal relationship with The Almightly God (much as you have made reference to calling friends by their name)
Once in the NT we have a Spirit of sonship and now being “part of the family” as it were we now call Him the titles reserved for those who are part of a family.
As to the NT scripture you referenced “to take out of them a people for his name.” to me it reads much as translated by the NIV 14Simom has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
I want to be clear I have no problem with the JW's calling themselves after the Father, or using the name of Jehovah (especially when talking to unbelievers) and if they want to call the Father by His name during their prayers that in my opinion is between them and the Father and frankly none of my business.
What I was addressing was at least the perception of JW's condemnation on those not “calling on Jehovah” by name. If wrong I apologize, I do not see this as an issue to be argued over just state your opinion then agree to dis-agree.
Wm
You are so right a W.J. once told me that I was not worshipping the Father. Just because I preferre to say Father should not disqualify me as coming through Jesus in front of the throne to talk to my Heavenly Father. It is wrong for anybody to say whether one is praying to the Father or not. Peace and Love IreneQuote (Stu @ June 29 2008,14:34) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,05:52) Quote David I agree that it was wrong to replace Jehovah with Lord in scriptures but it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. I have not said this to offend you and I apologize if I have. Just expressing an observation. Seeking truth, how important is God's name to you?
Some call him Father Christmas and others call him Santa. Does that difference matter?Stuart
Not for you by the sound of it.What did Santa give you last year? Remember you need to be good so you get more presents next year.
Quote (t8 @ July 15 2008,22:51) Quote (Stu @ June 29 2008,14:34) Quote (david @ June 29 2008,05:52) Quote David I agree that it was wrong to replace Jehovah with Lord in scriptures but it does seem that the JW's tend to fret over not using His name much the same as the pharisees did over using it. I have not said this to offend you and I apologize if I have. Just expressing an observation. Seeking truth, how important is God's name to you?
Some call him Father Christmas and others call him Santa. Does that difference matter?Stuart
Not for you by the sound of it.What did Santa give you last year? Remember you need to be good so you get more presents next year.
Quote SeekingT, how do you feel about this scripture? Isa. 12:4: “Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.”
And scriptures like this?
It's clear that Jehovah himself puts emphasis on his name (it being included in holy scriptures about 7000 times, far more than any other title, or even far more than all his titles put together.)
If we are to “call upon his name” does that not suggest we use his name, as the inspired Bible writers did, thousands of times?
Quote As to the NT scripture you referenced “to take out of them a people for his name.” to me it reads much as translated by the NIV 14Simom has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. Yes, some more liberal less literal translations translate it this way. But I don't believe it says “people for himself.” I believe “people for his name” is what the text actually says.
David,
Did you read my post above where I answered your question?Per BibleGateway, Jehovah is used 5822 times in the OT, 0 times in the NT, Why is that?
Just a reminder you were going to answer my question on your thoughts on the Spirit of sonship.
Thanks – Wm
Quote (david @ July 16 2008,02:03) Quote As to the NT scripture you referenced “to take out of them a people for his name.” to me it reads much as translated by the NIV 14Simom has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. Yes, some more liberal less literal translations translate it this way. But I don't believe it says “people for himself.” I believe “people for his name” is what the text actually says.
First time I've been considered “liberal”! lolIs the name of Jehovah your “God”? I do not serve His name but the person (however if He wasn't my Father I would call Him by his name, Jehovah)
I agree that the words are “people for His name” but to me that means to have this group of people for Himself.
Wm
Well Jehovah is God in Hebrew language I think, and I don't think it is used in the O.T. very much. Anyways it doesn't matter if you call praise God in his Hebrew name or English name, just as long as you praise the CHRISTIAN God.
Quote (Theologian-and-Apologist @ July 16 2008,10:55) Well Jehovah is God in Hebrew language I think, and I don't think it is used in the O.T. very much. Anyways it doesn't matter if you call praise God in his Hebrew name or English name, just as long as you praise the CHRISTIAN God.
What makes you think the islamic god and the 'christian god' are not the same thing? The short apologia I have read indicate things like allah's role as a deciever, but scientific evidence shows that your god is a deciever as well, if scripture is to be taken as 'his word'.Stuart
They are alike, but they are not the same. If you read the Qur'an and the Bible, you will see huge contradiction in between the theologies.
Quote (Theologian-and-Apologist @ July 17 2008,09:07) They are alike, but they are not the same. If you read the Qur'an and the Bible, you will see huge contradiction in between the theologies.
What would you say is the one most significant theological difference?Stuart
Quote Per BibleGateway, Jehovah is used 5822 times in the OT, 0 times in the NT, Why is that? Because the materials the Greek scriptures were written on didn't last nearly as long as the materials the hebrew scriptures were written on. We don't have the earliest Greek manuscripts, only copies of copies.
Because the Jews of that era misunderstood the first commandment and decided not to even pronounce God's name, and hence, it was was replaced (as is often even done today in the Hebrew scriptures with the titles “LORD” and “GOD”).Quote Well Jehovah is God in Hebrew language I think, and I don't think it is used in the O.T. very much. It is used thousands of times, far more than “God” “Lord” “Almighty” “Father” “Creator” etc COMBINED!
Quote First time I've been considered “liberal”! lol Right, I wouldn't say you're liberal, Seeking.
I was merely pointing out that that translation was quite liberal with there translation, as you yourself state:
Quote I agree that the words are “people for His name” instead of “himself”
Seeking, the scripture I orginally wanted you to comment on, was Isaiah. “call upon his name.” I think that's quite clear. His name is included in scripture thousands of times.
It's Satan who wants to remove his name from that book, and from history. It's God who inspired his name to be recorded thousands of times.“Call upon his name.”–Isaiah.
David,
Jesus use of “Lord” in Matthew. If you eliminate from Matthew where Lord is used either as, a title for a person in charge, quotes from the OT, or uses where addressing Jesus (unless you believe they were calling Him Jehovah).I found three uses not falling under the above:
1 – And the multitudes that went before him, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
I agree that this is most likely Jehovah, but it is used by the multitude.
2 – For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Once again this is most likely Jehovah but used by the Jewish people realizing who Christ was.
3 -Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.
Does Jehovah or Jesus come?
There are 71 uses of “Lord” in Matthew I may have missed one but if it was as important as you state to use Jehovah why didn't Jesus use it.
You still have not answered my question on the Spirit of sonship.
Thanks – Wm
Quote (david @ July 17 2008,07:29) Quote First time I've been considered “liberal”! lol Right, I wouldn't say you're liberal, Seeking.
I was merely pointing out that that translation was quite liberal with there translation, as you yourself state:
Quote I agree that the words are “people for His name” instead of “himself”
Seeking, the scripture I orginally wanted you to comment on, was Isaiah. “call upon his name.” I think that's quite clear. His name is included in scripture thousands of times.
It's Satan who wants to remove his name from that book, and from history. It's God who inspired his name to be recorded thousands of times.“Call upon his name.”–Isaiah.
David,
I want to be clear, I do not agree with changing the word “Jehovah” to “Lord”.You refer to the many uses of Lord in the NT as proof (see my previous post) but does Jesus ever call him Jehovah?
(I was going to look through all the gospels but I got to go)
Wm
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