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[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:39) Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations.  Are you unable to see this? Hi Mike, GOD does not “LIE”, he told Abraham to offer Isaac not to sacrifice him.

Why do you suppose Abraham took wood with him up the mountain?  What was Abraham's intention for that wood?

Why did he tie Isaac and raise up the knife?  What was his intention by doing so?

Think it out, Ed.  Did Abraham get to the top of the mountain, and then say, “Hey God, here I am with my son.  Now what would you like me to do with him?”

Of course not.  He brought the wood, tied up Isaac, and was ready to kill him with a knife and BURN him on that wood because……………………..

You tell me why, Ed.  Why would Abraham have tied up his son on a pile of wood and raised a knife over him – intending to kill and burn him?  Was this his own idea?  

Or was it perhaps because God told him to offer his son as a BURNT OFFERING, and he was following the command of his God?

How could Isaac be considered a BURNT offering before he was BURNT?  

Ed, you have lost this one before you even started.  It's time for you to accept the truth of the matter and adjust your past understanding so that it aligns with that truth of the matter.

An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken, or ceases to be honest. Which one will you cease to be, Ed?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:53)

1) It doesn't mean that there are 'gods' – especially when JEHOVAH specifically says that there are no other gods.

But Jehovah didn't say there are no other gods, Ed.

Jehovah said there are no other elohim.

You are back-translating the much later English word “god” into the Hebrew words Jehovah actually said.

There existed no such word as “god” when Jehovah spoke through His servant Isaiah. Agreed?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2013,10:25)

Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:39) Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations.  Are you unable to see this? Hi Mike, GOD does not “LIE”, he told Abraham to offer Isaac not to sacrifice him. Why do you suppose Abraham took wood with him up the mountain?  What was Abraham's intention for that wood? Why did he tie Isaac and raise up the knife?  What was his intention by doing so? Think it out, Ed.  Did Abraham get to the top of the mountain, and then say, “Hey God, here I am with my son.  Now what would you like me to do with him?” Of course not.  He brought the wood, tied up Isaac, and was ready to kill him with a knife and BURN him on that wood because…………………….. You tell me why, Ed.  Why would Abraham have tied up his son on a pile of wood and raised a knife over him – intending to kill and burn him?  Was this his own idea?   Or was it perhaps because God told him to offer his son as a BURNT OFFERING, and he was following the command of his God? How could Isaac be considered a BURNT offering before he was BURNT?   Ed, you have lost this one before you even started.  It's time for you to accept the truth of the matter and adjust your past understanding so that it aligns with that truth of the matter. An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken, or ceases to be honest.  Which one will you cease to be, Ed?

Hi Mike,

Your words prove my point!
Abraham did “offer” Isaac,
but did NOT sacrifice him.

“And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass;
 and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.” (Gen 22:5)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2013,15:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2013,10:25) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,20:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:39) Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations.  Are you unable to see this? Hi Mike, GOD does not “LIE”, he told Abraham to offer Isaac not to sacrifice him. Why do you suppose Abraham took wood with him up the mountain?  What was Abraham's intention for that wood? Why did he tie Isaac and raise up the knife?  What was his intention by doing so? Think it out, Ed.  Did Abraham get to the top of the mountain, and then say, “Hey God, here I am with my son.  Now what would you like me to do with him?” Of course not.  He brought the wood, tied up Isaac, and was ready to kill him with a knife and BURN him on that wood because…………………….. You tell me why, Ed.  Why would Abraham have tied up his son on a pile of wood and raised a knife over him – intending to kill and burn him?  Was this his own idea?   Or was it perhaps because God told him to offer his son as a BURNT OFFERING, and he was following the command of his God? How could Isaac be considered a BURNT offering before he was BURNT?   Ed, you have lost this one before you even started.  It's time for you to accept the truth of the matter and adjust your past understanding so that it aligns with that truth of the matter. An honest but mistaken man, once shown the truth, either ceases to be mistaken, or ceases to be honest.  Which one will you cease to be, Ed? Hi Mike, Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him. “And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass;  and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.” (Gen 22:5) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Mike,

The Apostle Paul agrees with me even if you don't.  

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that
 had received the promises offered up his only begotten son” (Heb 11:17)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed J,

Quote

Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him.

Same difference even as Merriam-Webster reveals.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,06:33)

Ed J, Quote Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him. Same difference even as Merriam-Webster reveals.

So Merriam-Webster says Isaac was sacrificed?

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,03:29)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,06:33) Ed J, Quote Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him. Same difference even as Merriam-Webster reveals. So Merriam-Webster says Isaac was sacrificed?

Ed,

Merriam-Webster states offering and sacrifice mean the same thing in some contexts. You are not unaware that offering a child up as a burnt offering is sacrificing as a burnt offering him. You arguing over the meaning of a word.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,09:06)

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,03:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,06:33) Ed J, Quote Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him. Same difference even as Merriam-Webster reveals. So Merriam-Webster says Isaac was sacrificed?   Ed, Merriam-Webster states offering and sacrifice mean the same thing in some contexts.  You are not unaware that offering a child up as a burnt offering is sacrificing as a burnt offering him.  You arguing over the meaning of a word.

Rather, you are blind to the difference.

[mikeboll64]

Ed,

It is true that the NIV (like the AKJV) has translational errors in it. But this is not one of them.

Ed, do you agree that Isaac was to be offered to God as a BURNT offering? YES or NO?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 26 2013,10:20)

Ed, It is true that the NIV (like the AKJV) has translational errors in it.  But this is not one of them. Ed, do you agree that Isaac was to be offered to God as a BURNT offering?  YES or NO?

Hi Mike,

Abraham's hand was stayed – so he did NOT sacrifice Isaac
on the Altar called JEHOVAH-Jireh, the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
Once again you want to argue over yet another misconception.

I agree with the Apostle Paul, that Abraham DID offer up Isaac.
“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that
 had received the promises offered up his only begotten son” (Heb 11:17)
Do you believe that Hebrews 11:17 is true and accurate?  “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,04:21)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,09:06) Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2013,03:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,06:33) Ed J, Quote Your words prove my point! Abraham did “offer” Isaac, but did NOT sacrifice him. Same difference even as Merriam-Webster reveals. So Merriam-Webster says Isaac was sacrificed?   Ed, Merriam-Webster states offering and sacrifice mean the same thing in some contexts.  You are not unaware that offering a child up as a burnt offering is sacrificing as a burnt offering him.  You arguing over the meaning of a word. Rather, you are blind to the difference.

Ed,

You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14)

Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary.

I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged.

T8,

Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one. I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing. He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing.

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,22:29)

Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged.

Hi T8,

The dictionary will define “ANY WORD” by its usage,
take for example the words “Person” and “Trinity”…

Person:
3a: one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians   (Link)

Or the word “Trinity”…
Trinity: The Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  (Link)

Can we take the definitions of either of these two words and say this proves a point?     (<– Kerwin's Point)
Or is even “ANY” evidence towards proving a point? what say you T8? I say no.                 (<– Your Point)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15)

Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing.

Hi Kerwin,

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that
had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17)

Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18)

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,11:18)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context.

Is that a “Yes” to my question?

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,07:01)

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context. Is that a “Yes” to my question?

Ed,

Hebrews 11:17
New International Version (NIV)

17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,13:33)

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,07:01) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context. Is that a “Yes” to my question? Ed, Hebrews 11:17 New International Version (NIV) 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,

Hi Kerwin,

Is your answer to my question “Yes”?    …or is it “No”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,08:54)

Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,13:33) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,07:01) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,11:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2013,04:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 27 2013,04:15) Quote (t8 @ July 26 2013,17:29) Quote (kerwin @ July 26 2013,13:14) Ed, You are arguing with a definition from a dictionary. I haven't been following this topic lately, so I am unaware of the context you say this, but this is funny. Arguing with reality is what I see some do here. When you point that out, they defend against reality with the same delusion repackaged. T8, Ed seems to believe the NIV is flawed because it states Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering instead of offer him as one.  I pointed out that Merriam-Websters reveals that in some cases sacrifice and offer mean the same thing.  He continued to insist they do not mean the same thing. Hi Kerwin, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son”. (Heb 11:17) Did Abraham “OFFER UP” Isaac – “Yes” or “No”?         (<– please answer) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed, Sacrifice and offer up mean the same thing in that context. Is that a “Yes” to my question? Ed, Hebrews 11:17 New International Version (NIV) 17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, Hi Kerwin, Is your answer to my question “Yes”?    …or is it “No”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

It is not a yes or no discussion. The legitimate question is whether Hebrews 11:17 in both the KJV and the NIV are expressing the same ideas and the answer is yes. You already know this as you do not claim the law does not ban to offering your child up as a burnt offering.

The NIV is no more perfect than the KJV but God is alive and active.

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