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Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjso he requested to “offer him in sacrifice ” with wood to burned on a rock ;
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.KJV
WHO DO YOU TRY TO FOOL
Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,06:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J
Ed,So it was OK for Israelites to offer their children as burnt offerings because God commanded them not to sacrifice them?
Hi Kerwin: NO, pay attention to the conversation, OK?
Abraham was told to offer Issac, which he faithfully did.1. I believe this was to show the Angels Abraham's faith. And
2. it was also to illustrate what YHVH *was* going to do with his son.Abraham was willing to do what YHVH actually did.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ July 24 2013,08:55) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjso he requested to “offer him in sacrifice ” with wood to burned on a rock ;
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.KJV
WHO DO YOU TRY TO FOOL
Hi Pierre,“I” DON'T have a lot of conversations with 'you',
because you don't pay attention to what others say; you
are too busy trying to tell us what you believe to learn anything new.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,01:08) Hi Mike, You are trying to apply the English definition of “God” to the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.
I'm about to bang my head against a wall, Ed! Hasn't it been ME who has been insisting that we can't “back-translate” the 21st century understanding of “god” to the Hebrew word “elohim”?
So let's BOTH start all over WITHOUT even using the English word “god”, or any of it's definitions, okay?
What that means is that in Isaiah 45, Jehovah didn't say, “There is no GOD besides me”, right?
And we can't “back-translate” the English word “god” into that verse, right?
So now, knowing that the scriptures are full of living, breathing ELOHIM……. what does it mean for Jehovah to say there is no ELOHIM besides Himself? (Don't even think of using the word “god” to explain – because that would be “back-translating”.)
Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,01:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 23 2013,10:37) Genesis 22:13 NIV
……took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.AKJV
…….took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.Exodus 32:6 NIV
…….sacrificed burnt offerings………AKJV
……..offered burnt offerings………Ed, the Hebrew word means “offer a sacrifice”.
Hi Mike,That doesn't make 'THE ERROR' in the N.I.V. go away; did you somehow think that it does?
Ed,Offering a burnt offering means sacrificing it in fire. It hasn't been OFFERED to God UNTIL it has been killed and burnt. (Hence: BURNT offering)
So if God sent Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, then God sent Abraham to sacrifice his son on a fire.
1. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, but then stopped him at the last minute.
2. God told Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, but then stopped him at the last minute.
Numbers 1 and 2 mean exactly the same thing, Ed.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,09:56) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,01:08) Hi Mike, You are trying to apply the English definition of “God” to the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.
I'm about to bang my head against a wall, Ed! Hasn't it been ME who has been insisting that we can't “back-translate” the 21st century understanding of “god” to the Hebrew word “elohim”?
So let's BOTH start all over WITHOUT even using the English word “god”, or any of it's definitions, okay?
What that means is that in Isaiah 45, Jehovah didn't say, “There is no GOD besides me”, right?
And we can't “back-translate” the English word “god” into that verse, right?
So now, knowing that the scriptures are full of living, breathing ELOHIM……. what does it mean for Jehovah to say there is no ELOHIM besides Himself? (Don't even think of using the word “god” to explain – because that would be “back-translating”.)
Hi Mike,The Hebrew word “EL-o-heem” can be forward-translated to mean any of the following: (depending on the context)
1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders
4. MagistratesWhen YHVH says there is no “EL-o-heem” besides him,
this can “ONLY” mean definition #1, because there ARE no other gods besides YHVH. And
we both know that there ARE other Leaders besides GOD and there ARE other Magistrates besides GOD; and GOD is NOT an Angel.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:05) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,01:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 23 2013,10:37) Genesis 22:13 NIV
……took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.AKJV
…….took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.Exodus 32:6 NIV
…….sacrificed burnt offerings………AKJV
……..offered burnt offerings………Ed, the Hebrew word means “offer a sacrifice”.
Hi Mike,That doesn't make 'THE ERROR' in the N.I.V. go away; did you somehow think that it does?
Ed,Offering a burnt offering means sacrificing it in fire. It hasn't been OFFERED to God UNTIL it has been killed and burnt. (Hence: BURNT offering)
So if God sent Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, then God sent Abraham to sacrifice his son on a fire.
1. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, but then stopped him at the last minute.
2. God told Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, but then stopped him at the last minute.
Numbers 1 and 2 mean exactly the same thing, Ed.
Hi Mike, No they DON'T!Did you not take English in high-school?
One means to attempt to do(#2)
and
the other means to actually do(#1).God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,17:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:05)
1. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, but then stopped him at the last minute.2. God told Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, but then stopped him at the last minute.
One means to attempt to do(#2)
and
the other means to actually do(#1).
In most cases, the word “offer” refers to offering to do something, but you really haven't yet done it.But when one offers a burnt offering to Jehovah, he is not standing there with his cow saying, “God, I offer you this cow if you want it.” Instead, the act of offering a burnt offering IS the act of killing and burning that offering on the fire.
It hasn't been offered UNTIL it has been burned with fire, Ed.
So when God told Abraham to “offer him there for a burnt offering” (KJV), he was telling Abraham to “Sacrifice him there” (NIV).
Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations. Are you unable to see this?
Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,17:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,09:56) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,01:08) Hi Mike, You are trying to apply the English definition of “God” to the Hebrew word “EL-o-heem”.
I'm about to bang my head against a wall, Ed! Hasn't it been ME who has been insisting that we can't “back-translate” the 21st century understanding of “god” to the Hebrew word “elohim”?
So let's BOTH start all over WITHOUT even using the English word “god”, or any of it's definitions, okay?
What that means is that in Isaiah 45, Jehovah didn't say, “There is no GOD besides me”, right?
And we can't “back-translate” the English word “god” into that verse, right?
So now, knowing that the scriptures are full of living, breathing ELOHIM……. what does it mean for Jehovah to say there is no ELOHIM besides Himself? (Don't even think of using the word “god” to explain – because that would be “back-translating”.)
Hi Mike,The Hebrew word “EL-o-heem” can be forward-translated to mean any of the following: (depending on the context)
1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders
4. MagistratesWhen YHVH says there is no “EL-o-heem” besides him,
this can “ONLY” mean definition #1, because there ARE no other gods besides YHVH. And
we both know that there ARE other Leaders besides GOD and there ARE other Magistrates besides GOD; and GOD is NOT an Angel.
So when Jehovah says He will bring judgment upon the gods of Egypt, it DOESN'T mean “gods”. But when Jehovah says there is no god besides Him, it DOES mean “god”?
Ed, I'm done with this. You have shown yourself once again to be foolish and willing to play games.
If we “forward-translate” elohim to god, then we are at the same time “BACK-TRANSLATING” our English word god to the Hebrew elohim.
Better to understand elohim as meaning “might (-y one)” at all times. Because that is the truth of the matter. And the truth of the matter includes MANY elohim, both in heaven and on earth. So the truth of the matter is that Jehovah couldn't have been speaking LITERALLY when He said there is no elohim besides Him. Just like the truth of the matter is He wasn't speaking LITERALLY when He said there is no savior besides Him.
End of story. There are many gods and many lords, just as Paul CLEARLY stated. There is no scripture in the entire Bible that calls any of these gods a “false god” or a “so-called god”. And there are many stories in scripture that make it painfully clear that these other gods are real gods.
Also, Jehovah cannot be the god of gods if He is literally the only god. Nor could He be the Most High god if there existed no less high gods.
You go on believing your lie if you want.
Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,04:42) Quote (terraricca @ July 24 2013,08:55) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjso he requested to “offer him in sacrifice ” with wood to burned on a rock ;
Ge 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.KJV
WHO DO YOU TRY TO FOOL
Hi Pierre,“I” DON'T have a lot of conversations with 'you',
because you don't pay attention to what others say; you
are too busy trying to tell us what you believe to learn anything new.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjdo you really think that I don't know that you know ,but I also know some things ,and that is what you do not recognized
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:39) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,17:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:05)
1. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, but then stopped him at the last minute.2. God told Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, but then stopped him at the last minute.
One means to attempt to do(#2)
and
the other means to actually do(#1).
In most cases, the word “offer” refers to offering to do something, but you really haven't yet done it.But when one offers a burnt offering to Jehovah, he is not standing there with his cow saying, “God, I offer you this cow if you want it.” Instead, the act of offering a burnt offering IS the act of killing and burning that offering on the fire.
It hasn't been offered UNTIL it has been burned with fire, Ed.
So when God told Abraham to “offer him there for a burnt offering” (KJV), he was telling Abraham to “Sacrifice him there” (NIV).
Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations. Are you unable to see this?
Hi Mike,GOD does not “LIE”, he told Abraham
to offer Isaac not to sacrifice him.
Which Abraham faithfully did!
I'm glad you're starting to get it!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:47) (1)So when Jehovah says He will bring judgment upon the gods of Egypt, it DOESN'T mean “gods”. (2)But when Jehovah says there is no god besides Him, it DOES mean “god”? (3)Ed, I'm done with this. You have shown yourself once again to be foolish and willing to play games.
(4)If we “forward-translate” elohim to god, then we are at the same time “BACK-TRANSLATING” our English word god to the Hebrew elohim.
Hi Mike,1) It doesn't mean that there are 'gods' – especially when
JEHOVAH specifically says that there are no other gods.
2) Correct.3) Your choice.
4) NOT SO, the word “GOD” can be translated from “FIVE” different Hebrew words.
Trying to back-translate is how the systems of religion created a false-god named 'i am'.
This English phraseology (i am) CANNOT be back-translated as Hebrew has no such construct.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,08:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:39) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,17:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2013,10:05)
1. God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, but then stopped him at the last minute.2. God told Abraham to offer his son as a burnt offering, but then stopped him at the last minute.
One means to attempt to do(#2)
and
the other means to actually do(#1).
In most cases, the word “offer” refers to offering to do something, but you really haven't yet done it.But when one offers a burnt offering to Jehovah, he is not standing there with his cow saying, “God, I offer you this cow if you want it.” Instead, the act of offering a burnt offering IS the act of killing and burning that offering on the fire.
It hasn't been offered UNTIL it has been burned with fire, Ed.
So when God told Abraham to “offer him there for a burnt offering” (KJV), he was telling Abraham to “Sacrifice him there” (NIV).
Ed, Abraham was told to BURN his son in both translations. Are you unable to see this?
Hi Mike,GOD does not “LIE”, he told Abraham
to offer Isaac not to sacrifice him.
Which Abraham faithfully did!
I'm glad you're starting to get it!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjGod does not lie but EDJ IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE KJV. IS NOT WHAT HE WANTED TO BE ,
Ge 22:6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together,
Ge 22:7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
Ge 22:8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together. nivCAN YOU STILL HAVE DOUBTS
READ THE SCRIPTURES;SAME THING IN THE ,KJV,Ge 22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Ge 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Ge 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Ge 22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. kjvdiscussions about what eddy
your miss understanding Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,04:38) Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,06:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J
Ed,So it was OK for Israelites to offer their children as burnt offerings because God commanded them not to sacrifice them?
Hi Kerwin: NO, pay attention to the conversation, OK?
Abraham was told to offer Issac, which he faithfully did.1. I believe this was to show the Angels Abraham's faith. And
2. it was also to illustrate what YHVH *was* going to do with his son.Abraham was willing to do what YHVH actually did.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,A burnt offering is a sacrifice.
There is a rough parallel between Abraham's action and Jehovah's later action.
I have trouble understanding how God sacrificed Jesus as a burnt offering to himself.
Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,14:19) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,04:38) Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,06:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J
Ed,So it was OK for Israelites to offer their children as burnt offerings because God commanded them not to sacrifice them?
Hi Kerwin: NO, pay attention to the conversation, OK?
Abraham was told to offer Issac, which he faithfully did.1. I believe this was to show the Angels Abraham's faith. And
2. it was also to illustrate what YHVH *was* going to do with his son.Abraham was willing to do what YHVH actually did.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,A burnt offering is a sacrifice.
There is a rough parallel between Abraham's action and Jehovah's later action.
I have trouble understanding how God sacrificed Jesus as a burnt offering to himself.
“offer him there for a burnt offering” (Gen 22:2)Abraham “offered” Isaac, as was commanded.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,02:23) I created a new acronym. ISM.
It stands for all the isms out there that try to explain God. Trinitarianism, Binitarianism, Quadratarianism, etc.It seems to me that all the world fits into this scale as we all believe that God is made up of 0,1,2,3,4…. to infinite persons. Here is an example.
Stu believes zero
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes four
New Age believes infinite (if we all are God that is)So here is the outcome of this survey using the ISM scale.
If Stu wins, then no one will know.
If Mike wins, then Jesus, Paul, disciples, prophets, myself, Jews, will rejoice that God is indeed one.
If Kathi wins, then she will share her victory with 32 other people in history.
If WJ wins then KJ, Is1:18, the Catholic Church and her daughter churches, plus Babylonians, and Hindus will rejoice.
If EdJ wins, then he alone will rejoice and he will be doubly happy when he finds out that he was a mighty angel in his previous life.
If New Age wins, then all the New Ages will rejoice.The prize is awarded at the end of your life.
Comments?
I am honored that I am mentioned in your mix!But it seems a little disingenuous, because you and Mike both believe in many gods!
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,11:50) Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,14:19) Quote (Ed J @ July 24 2013,04:38) Quote (kerwin @ July 24 2013,06:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2013,21:47) Hi Pierre, God did not tell Abraham to 'sacrifice his son', the N.I.V. got it WRONG!
God bless
Ed J
Ed,So it was OK for Israelites to offer their children as burnt offerings because God commanded them not to sacrifice them?
Hi Kerwin: NO, pay attention to the conversation, OK?
Abraham was told to offer Issac, which he faithfully did.1. I believe this was to show the Angels Abraham's faith. And
2. it was also to illustrate what YHVH *was* going to do with his son.Abraham was willing to do what YHVH actually did.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,A burnt offering is a sacrifice.
There is a rough parallel between Abraham's action and Jehovah's later action.
I have trouble understanding how God sacrificed Jesus as a burnt offering to himself.
“offer him there for a burnt offering” (Gen 22:2)Abraham “offered” Isaac, as was commanded.
Ed,Sacrifice and offer are used as synonyms in the context of a burnt offering.
Quote intransitive verb
1
: to present something as an act of worship or devotion : sacrificeGod banning the sacrifice of children to demons also bans offering them as burnt offerings.
Hi,
Jer.12:1 Hear the word that the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2Thus says the LORD:
“Learn not the way of the nations,
nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
because the nations are dismayed at them,
3 for the customs of the peoples are vanity.a
A tree from the forest is cut down
and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman.
4 They decorate it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move.
5 Their idolsb are like scarecrows in a cucumber field,
and they cannot speak;
they have to be carried,
for they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them,
for they cannot do evil,
neither is it in them to do good.”6 There is None like you, O LORD;
you are great, and your name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear you, O King of the nations?
For this is your due;
for among all the wise ones of the nations
and in all their kingdoms
there is None like you.
8 They are both stupid and foolish;
the instruction of idols is but wood!
9 Beaten silver is brought from Tarshish,
and gold from Uphaz.
They are the work of the craftsman and of the hands of the goldsmith;
their clothing is violet and purple;
they are all the work of skilled men.
10 But the LORD is the True God;
he is the living God and the everlasting King.
At his wrath the earth quakes,
and the nations cannot endure his indignation.11Thus shall you say to them: “The gods who did Not make the heavens and the earth shall Perish from the earth and from under the heavens.”c
12 It is he who made the earth by his power,
who established the world by his wisdom,
and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13 When he utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the heavens,
and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain,
and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14 Every man is stupid and without knowledge;
every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols,
for his images are false,
and there is no breath in them.
15 They are worthless, a work of delusion;
at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
16 Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob,
for he is the One who formed all things,
and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance;
the LORD of hosts is his name.1Cor.8:1 Now concerning things sacrificed to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth. 2If any man thinketh that he knoweth anything, he knoweth not yet as he ought to know; 3but if any man loveth God, the same is known of him.
4Concerning therefore the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is No God but ‘One'. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many; 6 yet to us(Christians) there is ‘one' God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
Peace brothers…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 25 2013,01:04) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 24 2013,02:23) I created a new acronym. ISM.
It stands for all the isms out there that try to explain God. Trinitarianism, Binitarianism, Quadratarianism, etc.It seems to me that all the world fits into this scale as we all believe that God is made up of 0,1,2,3,4…. to infinite persons. Here is an example.
Stu believes zero
Mike believe one
LU believes two
WJ believes three
EdJ believes four
New Age believes infinite (if we all are God that is)So here is the outcome of this survey using the ISM scale.
If Stu wins, then no one will know.
If Mike wins, then Jesus, Paul, disciples, prophets, myself, Jews, will rejoice that God is indeed one.
If Kathi wins, then she will share her victory with 32 other people in history.
If WJ wins then KJ, Is1:18, the Catholic Church and her daughter churches, plus Babylonians, and Hindus will rejoice.
If EdJ wins, then he alone will rejoice and he will be doubly happy when he finds out that he was a mighty angel in his previous life.
If New Age wins, then all the New Ages will rejoice.The prize is awarded at the end of your life.
Comments?
I am honored that I am mentioned in your mix!But it seems a little disingenuous, because you and Mike both believe in many gods!
WJ
I have been totally ignored non existent
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