ISM Scale

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

I don't know, Kerwin. Read Genesis 24:1-4. At this time, even Abraham didn't know Jehovah AS “Jehovah”. (God told Moses they knew Him by “God Almighty”, but did not know Him by His name “Jehovah”.)

But the point is that Abraham was the one person out of the world that Jehovah produced HIS nation from. All people (including Abraham) had other gods up until the point Jehovah came to Abraham, and explained to him that He alone was the God who created all things, and that He would make nations for Himself out of that one man.

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them. The Canaanites called Jehovah El. Polytheism arose as Noah's descendents chose the heresy of worshiping angels and other things. Monotheism comes fist not polytheism.

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Kerwin

Quote

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them

so are we and we are not Canaanites or are we

where are you going with this type of answers ?

El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.

July 4, 2013 at 2:33 am#349810

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,06:03)

Quote (kerwin @ July 03 2013,15:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Genesis 9:26
He also said, “Praise be to the LORD, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem.

Noah cursed Canaan for what Ham did, and said he would be the slave of slaves.

But I'm not seeing any scripture that says Canaan, or any of his descendants, worshiped Jehovah.

Could you show me that scripture?

Mike,

The translators tend to translate El to God even though they should know by now that El is the name of the most high God.

Genesis 14:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God(El).

Is Melchizedek a priest of Jehovah or not.

Four verses later it is written.

Genesis 14:22
King James Version (KJV)

22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God(El), the possessor of heaven and earth,

July 4, 2013 at 3:49 am#349816

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,07:54)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Kerwin

Quote

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them

so are we and we are not Canaanites or are we

where are you going with this type of answers ?

El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.

Kerwin

Contents ;
1 Shaddai as a theonym
1.1 Shaddai meaning destroyer
1.2 Shaddai meaning fertility
1.3 Shaddai meaning sustainer and destroyer
2 Shaddai as a toponym
3 Shaddai in the Midrash
4 Biblical translations
5 References

witch one should I take as the true meaning

and are you talking before of the invasion of the Israelites in the promised land of Canaan or after

it seems you are lost in time but not sure

July 4, 2013 at 4:02 am#349817

Participant

El (deity)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see El (disambiguation).

Ēl depicted with two lions on the back of the handle of the Gebel el-Arak Knife[dubious – discuss][1]
ʾĒl (written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: 𐎛𐎍, Phoenician: 𐤋𐤀, Classical Syriac: ܐܠ‎, Hebrew: אל‎, Arabic: إل‎ or إله, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning “Deity”.
In the Canaanite religion, or Levantine religion as a whole, Ēl or Il was the supreme God, the Father of humankind and all creatures and the husband of the Goddess Asherah as recorded in the clay tablets of Ugarit (modern Ra′s Shamrā – Arabic: رأس شمرا‎, Syria).[2]
The noun ʾEl was found at the top of a list of Gods as the “Ancient of Gods” or the “Father of all Gods”, in the ruins of the royal archive of the Ebla civilization, in the archaeological site of Tell Mardikh in Syria dated to 2300 BC. The bull was symbolic to Ēl and his son Baʻal Hadad, and they both wore bull horns on their headdress.[3][4][5][6] He may have been a desert god at some point, as the myths say that he had two wives and built a sanctuary with them and his new children in the desert. Ēl had fathered many gods, but most important were Hadad, Yam, and Mot.
Contents [hide]
1 Linguistic forms and meanings
2 Proto-Sinaitic, Phoenician, Aramaic, and Hittite texts
3 Amorites
4 Ugarit
5 Hebrew Bible
6 Sanchuniathon
7 Poseidon
8 See also
9 Footnotes
10 References
11 Further reading
12 External links
Linguistic forms and meanings[edit]

Cognate forms are found throughout the Semitic languages. They include Ugaritic ʾil, pl. ʾlm; Phoenician ʾl pl. ʾlm; Hebrew ʾēl, pl. ʾēlîm; Aramaic ʾl; Akkadian ilu, pl. ilānu.
In Northwest Semitic usage ʾl was both a generic word for any “God” and the special name or title of a particular god who was distinguished from other Gods as being “the God”, or in the monotheistic sense, God.[7] Ēl is listed at the head of many pantheons. Ēl was the father God among the Canaanites.
However, because the word sometimes refers to a god other than the great god Ēl, it is frequently ambiguous as to whether Ēl followed by another name means the great god Ēl with a particular epithet applied or refers to another god entirely. For example, in the Ugaritic texts ʾil mlk is understood to mean “Ēl the King” but ʾil hd as “the god Hadad”.
The Semitic root ʾlh (Arabic ʾilāh, Aramaic ʾAlāh, ʾElāh, Hebrew ʾelōah) may be ʾlu with a parasitic h. In Ugaritic the plural form meaning “Gods” is ʾilhm, equivalent to Hebrew ʾelōhîm “Gods”. But in Hebrew this word is also regularly used for semantically singular “god” or “God”.
The stem ʾl is found prominently in the earliest strata of east Semitic, northwest Semitic, and south Semitic groups. Personal names including the stem ʾl are found with similar patterns both in Amorite and South Arabic which indicates that probably already in Proto-Semitic ʾl was both a generic term for “god” and the common name or title of a single particular “god” or “God”.
Proto-Sinaitic, Phoenician, Aramaic, and Hittite texts

Biblical translations[edit]

The Septuagint and other early translations usually translate “El Shaddai” as “God Almighty.” However in the Greek of the Septuagint translation of Psalm 91.1, “Shaddai” is translated as “the God of heaven.”[4]
“God Almighty” is the translation followed by most modern English translations of the Hebrew scriptures, including the popular New International Version[5] and Good News Bible.
The translation team behind the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) however maintain that the meaning is uncertain, and that translating “El Shaddai” as “Almighty God” is inaccurate. The NJB leaves it untranslated as “Shaddai,” and makes footnote suggestions that it should perhaps be understood as “God of the Mountain” from the Accadian “shadu,” or “God of the open wastes” from the Hebrew “sadeh” and the secondary meaning of the Accadian word.[4]

El Shaddai (Hebrew: אל שדי‎, el ʃadːaj) is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion upon modern Judaism. Shaddai was one of the many Gods in Canaanite religion. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty. While the translation of El as “god” in Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate.

it seems this is not a clear cut as you which it would be ,and I would also like Mike have my doubts about it ,

so could you make it more clear so that it was realy Jehovah God the true God that was worshiped by the Canaan

July 4, 2013 at 4:20 am#349823

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,14:49)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,07:54)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Kerwin

Quote

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them

so are we and we are not Canaanites or are we

where are you going with this type of answers ?

El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.

Kerwin

witch one should I take as the true meaning

and are you talking before of the invasion of the Israelites in the promised land of Canaan or after

it seems you are lost in time but not sure

Hi Pierre,

Shaddai means “Breasted One” – as in able to provide – and always refers to YHVH.
Shaddai is translated to English as “Almighty”, because YHVH is our almighty provider.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 4, 2013 at 12:16 pm#349837

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2013,10:20)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,14:49)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,07:54)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Kerwin

Quote

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them

so are we and we are not Canaanites or are we

where are you going with this type of answers ?

El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.

Kerwin

witch one should I take as the true meaning

and are you talking before of the invasion of the Israelites in the promised land of Canaan or after

it seems you are lost in time but not sure

Hi Pierre,

Shaddai means “Breasted One” – as in able to provide – and always refers to YHVH.
Shaddai is translated to English as “Almighty”, because YHVH is our almighty provider.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

Quote

Shaddai means “Breasted One” – as in able to provide – and always refers to YHVH.

is that more related to the fertility god ???any way where did you took your info

July 4, 2013 at 1:38 pm#349839

Participant

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they
received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the
scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11)

July 4, 2013 at 2:16 pm#349840

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2013,19:38)

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they
received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the
scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11)

Edj

I did not know that Corinthe was in Canaan ,
Show me on the map ,

July 4, 2013 at 3:51 pm#349841

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ July 03 2013,22:02)

In the Canaanite religion, or Levantine religion as a whole, Ēl or Il was the supreme God, the Father of humankind and all creatures and the husband of the Goddess Asherah as recorded in the clay tablets of Ugarit (modern Ra′s Shamrā – Arabic: رأس شمرا‎, Syria).[2]

In Northwest Semitic usage ʾl was both a generic word for any “God” and the special name or title of a particular god who was distinguished from other Gods as being “the God”………………

it seems this is not a clear cut as you which it would be………

so could you make it more clear so that it was realy Jehovah God the true God that was worshiped by the Canaan ?

That is a fair question, Pierre.

The “el” of the Canaanites was the husband of Asherah. That doesn't sound like Jehovah to me.

Also, Pierre's source says that “el” was both a generic word for any god and the name of “the God”. This is also what I've been trying to say for years on this site.

This is the reason Jehovah is called “El Shaddai”. “Shaddai” is thought to mean “Almighty”, which is how it is translated in the LXX, and most English bibles. It means that among the MANY elohim, Jehovah alone is the mightiest (Almighty).

As for Kerwin's claim: “The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it“, I don't know where he got that information, or why he would post such a lie about me.

Nor do I understand what Kerwin's comments about Melchizedek and Abraham have to do with anything. He is supposed to be showing me that the Canaanites worshiped Jehovah. Was Melchizedek a Canaanite? Was Abraham?

I guess I don't get his point, because I have yet to see any scripture that suggests the Canaanites worshiped Jehovah.

July 4, 2013 at 3:54 pm#349842

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2013,15:50)

Happy independence day, Mike!

And to you, Ed.

July 4, 2013 at 4:23 pm#349848

Participant

MIKE

Quote

That is a fair question, Pierre.

they both edj and kerwin do not even know that God use Israel to punish those nation for their ex-stream wickedness ,

well let see what they can come up with now beside slander

July 4, 2013 at 4:32 pm#349849

mikeboll64

Blocked

I'm sure it will be something grandiose.

July 4, 2013 at 10:09 pm#349867

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,10:02)

El (deity)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see El (disambiguation).

Biblical translations[edit]

it seems this is not a clear cut as you which it would be ,and I would also like Mike have my doubts about it ,

so could you make it more clear so that it was realy Jehovah God the true God that was worshiped by the Canaan

I already pointed out that Melchizedek was a priest of El.

I believe the Caananites were heretics and would fall further from the truth as time went on.

July 4, 2013 at 11:24 pm#349871

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,14:21)

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2013,09:50)

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,10:39)

2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of YHVH.

Thanks for keeping this humerous Ed J, as the topic states.

So all that was authorised by the crown (James 1) is on behalf of YHVH?

By that faulty logic, his witch hunts were also on behalf of YHVH. Here is what you must also be promoting by reason of your faulty logic:

James's visit to Denmark, a country familiar with witch hunts, may have encouraged an interest in the study of witchcraft, which he considered a branch of theology. After his return to Scotland, he attended the North Berwick witch trials, the first major persecution of witches in Scotland under the Witchcraft Act 1563. Several people, most notably Agnes Sampson, were convicted of using witchcraft to send storms against James's ship. James became obsessed with the threat posed by witches and, inspired by his personal involvement, in 1597 wrote the Daemonologie, a tract which opposed the practice of witchcraft and which provided background material for Shakespeare's Tragedy of Macbeth. James personally supervised the torture of women accused of being witches
Source: Wikipedia

And you turn a blind eye to the faults in the AKJV because that would infringe on your faulty number system.

Hi T8,

What does one have to do with the other?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

That God used King James to create the only accurate Bible in existence was also a man who engaged in witch hunts and had this bible written in English only.

I don't buy your hypothesis for one minute. What proof do you have that the God of the Cosmos orchestrated the AKJV word by word? You have only your biased imagination as proof which is no proof.

And nowhere in scripture are we told to expect a translation that would be the only true translation.

The reason you believe this fantastical thing is because you need one translation to be true to make your numbers work.

But I would argue that if the NIV had been written back then, then you could equally change the numbers to fit that translation. But acknowledging that your numbers work in multiple translations would be tantamount to admitting that you can make the numbers work for anything, even the Koran or The Da Vinci Code.

So rather than admit that you can easily manipulate numbers to fit any text, you need there to be one translation that is accurate to hide this fact. Then you do the work, while others can't be bothered putting in the same amount of work for say the The Da Vinci Code and by reason of that, the AKJV looks infallible to your mind.

But anyone who understands probability knows that the more characters you add, the more possibilities open up.

Take a 6 digit Lotto competition. Let's say that the numbers go up to 9 and you have to get 6 correct. Then ask yourself how many combinations are there? When you have answered that, then know that the possibilities for your system with any text as big as scripture becomes astronomical. And yes there would also be heaps of numbers that wouldn't work the bigger the text, but that also means that there would be more that do too.

July 5, 2013 at 6:02 am#349885

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,04:09)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,10:02)

El (deity)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see El (disambiguation).

Biblical translations[edit]

it seems this is not a clear cut as you which it would be ,and I would also like Mike have my doubts about it ,

so could you make it more clear so that it was realy Jehovah God the true God that was worshiped by the Canaan

I already pointed out that Melchizedek was a priest of El.

I believe the Caananites were heretics and would fall further from the truth as time went on.

Their is not one Christian who as read the scriptures who does not know that Milchizedek was a high priest and king of Salem,shows up collect tite and left ,no birth,no dead ,no ancestry ,no history ,

As for the other comment it was obvious to me that God would not use Israel to destroy them if they would be worshiping him ,

So big story but no real findings or truth was learn,

July 5, 2013 at 12:57 pm#349899

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 05 2013,10:24)

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,14:21)

Hi T8,

What does one have to do with the other?

God bless
Ed J

That God used King James to create the only accurate Bible in existence was also a man who engaged in witch hunts and had this bible written in English only.

I don't buy your hypothesis for one minute.

Hi T8,

You are free to believe whatever you want my friend.
YHVH also used “David” – who took another man's wife and then had him killed.

“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;
and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not,
to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.” (1 Cor 1:27-29)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 5, 2013 at 12:57 pm#349900

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 05 2013,10:24)

I don't buy your hypothesis for one minute. What proof do you have that the God of the Cosmos orchestrated the AKJV word by word? You have only your biased imagination as proof which is no proof.

And nowhere in scripture are we told to expect a translation that would be the only true translation.

Hi T8,

The usefulness of God's word as it pertains to the “AKJV Bible” already has an existing thread. (Link)
If this is something you really want to discuss, click on the link and present your case there OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

July 5, 2013 at 6:23 pm#349917

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 05 2013,12:02)

Quote (kerwin @ July 05 2013,04:09)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,10:02)

El (deity)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see El (disambiguation).

Biblical translations[edit]

it seems this is not a clear cut as you which it would be ,and I would also like Mike have my doubts about it ,

so could you make it more clear so that it was realy Jehovah God the true God that was worshiped by the Canaan

I already pointed out that Melchizedek was a priest of El.

I believe the Caananites were heretics and would fall further from the truth as time went on.

As for the other comment it was obvious to me that God would not use Israel to destroy them if they would be worshiping him ,

So big story but no real findings or truth was learn,

Psalm 76:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

Where is Salem?

Abraham then went to the king of Sodom and spoke of the most high El. El, who archaeologist claim is the most high God of the Canaanites.

July 5, 2013 at 6:27 pm#349918

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,09:49)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,07:54)

Quote (terraricca @ July 04 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ July 04 2013,03:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2013,02:35)

And even that early on in God's own nation, Abraham did not want Isaac to marry a Canaanite woman. Why not? If they were also worshippers of Jehovah, Abraham's God, then why not?

Do you have scriptural evidence that any Canaanite ever worshipped Jehovah?

Mike,

Even if Abraham did not know Jehovah by the name Jehovah he expected the king of Sodom to know who he was speaking of. The king may well have worshiped angels as well.

Kerwin

Quote

Noah and his sons worshiped Jehovah and the Canaanites descended from them

so are we and we are not Canaanites or are we

where are you going with this type of answers ?

El Shaddai is Jehovah and was worshiped by various sects of the peoples of Canaan. The Jews and some Christians acknowledge El Shaddai is a name of Jehovah but Mike has trouble believing it.

Kerwin

witch one should I take as the true meaning

and are you talking before of the invasion of the Israelites in the promised land of Canaan or after

it seems you are lost in time but not sure

I am speaking of the time before Israel entered Egypt.

Shaddai meaning sustainer and destroyer is probably correct as Jehovah is both.

July 5, 2013 at 7:58 pm#349925