ISM Scale

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ June 30 2013,15:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:53) Quote (942767 @ June 29 2013,21:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:15) All from scripture, Marty. Hi Mike: Please quote the scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Phil 2 Who, existing in the form of God,    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped; 7 rather, he made himself nothing    by taking the form of a servant,    being made in human likeness. Colossians 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. There are more that say the same thing, but this should suffice for now. Yes, Mike, that is the scripture, but notice it does not say before the universe was created Love in Christ, Marty

If you are not satisfied, Marty, then add John 17:5 to it.  And add Hebrews 1:2 to it.  

If you need me to walk you through this scripture by scripture, let me know, okay?

One of the teachings of scripture, as gained via MANY scriptures, is that Jesus was existing with much glory in the form of his God, as the firstborn of his God and the beginning of the creation by his God; before the universe, the angels, and the earth were all created by his God through him – which was also before he was subsequently made into the likeness of a human being.

There is not one scripture that says exactly this wording, Marty.  But this is the teaching from the scriptures as a whole.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,10:04)

Quote (942767 @ June 30 2013,15:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:53) Quote (942767 @ June 29 2013,21:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,14:15) All from scripture, Marty. Hi Mike: Please quote the scripture. Love in Christ, Marty Phil 2 Who, existing in the form of God,    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped; 7 rather, he made himself nothing    by taking the form of a servant,    being made in human likeness. Colossians 1:16 For through him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. There are more that say the same thing, but this should suffice for now. Yes, Mike, that is the scripture, but notice it does not say before the universe was created Love in Christ, Marty If you are not satisfied, Marty, then add John 17:5 to it.  And add Hebrews 1:2 to it.   If you need me to walk you through this scripture by scripture, let me know, okay? One of the teachings of scripture, as gained via MANY scriptures, is that Jesus was existing with much glory in the form of his God, as the firstborn of his God and the beginning of the creation by his God; before the universe, the angels, and the earth were all created by his God through him – which was also before he was subsequently made into the likeness of a human being. There is not one scripture that says exactly this wording, Marty.  But this is the teaching from the scriptures as a whole.

Hi Mike:

The truth is that you interpret the scriptures to mean that, but it does not say what you said in that scripture in Philippians 2. You added those words. It does not say that, and so, why don't you just acknowledge the truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 01 2013,00:50)

Quote (kerwin @ June 30 2013,20:20) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,08:16) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,13:13) JEHOVAH is the most high “leader” – there are no gods. “there is no God else beside me” (Isaiah 45:21) Ed J, Jehovah is the only  “perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe” but the God Mike and T believe in is not omnipresent.  They believe instead that God is a “being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people” and those are believers.  They believe each angel is “A being of supernatural powers or attributes” but not to be worshiped by people.  They have many God's but only one primary God just like Jesus is the one Lord even though there are many lords. They basically believe God is an uncreated super angel. Jehovah Elohim is Elohim of Elohim is to me better expressed in English as Jehovah God is the Pantheon of the pantheon. Even pantheon is a poor fit unless you include those beings associated with the gods but not worshiped. Jehovah is not just God he is the God of the Gods, he is their pantheon. Note: quotes from thefreedictionary.com K Quote ” but the God Mike and T believe in is not omnipresent. why are you always quoting things i have told you of what I believe , the God I believe in is omnipresent though his creation ,a thing that Paul is teaching ,and David as well , you need more reading in the scriptures to allow you to understand what it teaches, Mike as told you what he believe (what is close to my believes)

T,

That is not omnipresent.

[mikeboll64]

Sorry Marty,

I have no time for game-playing. Nor do I have the time to start yet another discussion with you about the pre-existence of Jesus, just so you can yet again walk away from it.

There is a post to you that I worked very hard on, about 20 or 30 pages back in this thread. When you get the time to address that post, perhaps I'll again have time for you.

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2013,09:50)

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,10:39) 2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of  YHVH. Thanks for keeping this humerous Ed J, as the topic states. So all that was authorised by the crown (James 1) is on behalf of YHVH? By that faulty logic, his witch hunts were also on behalf of YHVH. Here is what you must also be promoting by reason of your faulty logic: James's visit to Denmark, a country familiar with witch hunts, may have encouraged an interest in the study of witchcraft, which he considered a branch of theology. After his return to Scotland, he attended the North Berwick witch trials, the first major persecution of witches in Scotland under the Witchcraft Act 1563. Several people, most notably Agnes Sampson, were convicted of using witchcraft to send storms against James's ship. James became obsessed with the threat posed by witches and, inspired by his personal involvement, in 1597 wrote the Daemonologie, a tract which opposed the practice of witchcraft and which provided background material for Shakespeare's Tragedy of Macbeth. James personally supervised the torture of women accused of being witches Source: Wikipedia And you turn a blind eye to the faults in the AKJV because that would infringe on your faulty number system.

Hi T8,

What does one have to do with the other?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2013,09:50)

And you turn a blind eye to the faults in the AKJV because that would infringe on your faulty number system.

Hi T8,

Have you forgotten already that I agree that 1John 5:7 does not belong in the bible.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,11:23)

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2013,09:50) And you turn a blind eye to the faults in the AKJV because that would infringe on your faulty number system. Hi T8, Have you forgotten already that I agree that 1John 5:7 does not belong in the bible. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

It is obvious that it doesn't belong – because Jesus isn't “The Word”.  

The traditions of men were added by the systems of religion.
It was NOT in the original printing of the Textus Receptus”

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 01 2013,05:23)

Quote (terraricca @ July 01 2013,00:50) Quote (kerwin @ June 30 2013,20:20) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,08:16) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,13:13) JEHOVAH is the most high “leader” – there are no gods. “there is no God else beside me” (Isaiah 45:21) Ed J, Jehovah is the only  “perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe” but the God Mike and T believe in is not omnipresent.  They believe instead that God is a “being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people” and those are believers.  They believe each angel is “A being of supernatural powers or attributes” but not to be worshiped by people.  They have many God's but only one primary God just like Jesus is the one Lord even though there are many lords. They basically believe God is an uncreated super angel. Jehovah Elohim is Elohim of Elohim is to me better expressed in English as Jehovah God is the Pantheon of the pantheon. Even pantheon is a poor fit unless you include those beings associated with the gods but not worshiped. Jehovah is not just God he is the God of the Gods, he is their pantheon. Note: quotes from thefreedictionary.com K Quote ” but the God Mike and T believe in is not omnipresent. why are you always quoting things i have told you of what I believe , the God I believe in is omnipresent though his creation ,a thing that Paul is teaching ,and David as well , you need more reading in the scriptures to allow you to understand what it teaches, Mike as told you what he believe (what is close to my believes) T, That is not omnipresent.

K

om·ni·pres·ent
/ˌämnəˈpreznt/
Adjective
(of God) Present everywhere at the same time.
Widely or constantly encountered; common or widespread: “the omnipresent threat of natural disasters”.

understand that their is no place in all of creation where God glory is not present ,where his laws are not firmly established and at work ,and God as a eye on all things what men does ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:39)

1) Saul was anointed and he made mistakes, and David was anointed and he made mistakes too. 1John 5:7 doesn't belong in the bible – when man's involved, mistakes will naturally happen.

So then there is nothing really special about the AKJV, right?  It is just a Bible like all the rest, complete with mistakes like all the rest, right?

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:39)

2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of  YHVH.

It's just a Bible, like any other Bible.  It has flaws just like any other Bible.  There is nothing at all special about it, the flawed translators who produced it, or the flawed king who commissioned it.

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:39)

3) “Us” is GOD and the Angels, and no GOD is NOT an Angel and Jesus is neither.

Ed, Satan told Eve they would become like the gods, knowing good and evil.  Jehovah then confirmed that they did by saying, “they have become like one of US, knowing good and evil”.

If Satan meant “angels”, then there is a Hebrew word (mal'ak) that he could have used to convey that thought.  And if Satan meant “angels”, then when Jehovah said, “they have become like one of US”, He included Himself as an angel.

But instead, Satan said “elohim”, which means “mighty ones”.  And when Jehovah said, “they have become like one of US”, he confirmed that they indeed became like one of the mighty ones, Himself included.

Of course you will remain in denial, as is your norm.  And of course, I will keep moving forward, showing you even more things, as is my norm.

In the end, all will remain as it has been for years.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,06:21)

Quote (t8 @ July 01 2013,09:50) Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,10:39) 2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of  YHVH. Thanks for keeping this humerous Ed J, as the topic states. So all that was authorised by the crown (James 1) is on behalf of YHVH? By that faulty logic, his witch hunts were also on behalf of YHVH. Here is what you must also be promoting by reason of your faulty logic: James's visit to Denmark, a country familiar with witch hunts, may have encouraged an interest in the study of witchcraft, which he considered a branch of theology. After his return to Scotland, he attended the North Berwick witch trials, the first major persecution of witches in Scotland under the Witchcraft Act 1563. Several people, most notably Agnes Sampson, were convicted of using witchcraft to send storms against James's ship. James became obsessed with the threat posed by witches and, inspired by his personal involvement, in 1597 wrote the Daemonologie, a tract which opposed the practice of witchcraft and which provided background material for Shakespeare's Tragedy of Macbeth. James personally supervised the torture of women accused of being witches Source: Wikipedia And you turn a blind eye to the faults in the AKJV because that would infringe on your faulty number system. Hi T8, What does one have to do with the other? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

ask Al Capone for honesty advice I know he is dead but so is James 1

if you can not see it ,it is because you do not want to .

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,11:35)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:39) 1) Saul was anointed and he made mistakes, and David was anointed and he made mistakes too. 1John 5:7 doesn't belong in the bible – when man's involved, mistakes will naturally happen. So then there is nothing really special about the AKJV, right?  It is just a Bible like all the rest, complete with mistakes like all the rest, right?

Hi Mike,

No, it's “Anointed” of GOD and “Authorized” by the crown; this
is the very same crown that the 10 northern tribes of Israel took
over the Caucuses Mountains settled in Burke-shire Scotland, and
then moved to England. The “United Kingdom”(Ephraim) has been
ruling from there ever since. Since it's God's word in the purest form
of English, I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,11:35)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,14:39) 3) “Us” is GOD and the Angels, and no GOD is NOT an Angel and Jesus is neither. Ed, Satan told Eve they would become like the gods, knowing good and evil.  Jehovah then confirmed that they did by saying, “they have become like one of US, knowing good and evil”. If Satan meant “angels”, then there is a Hebrew word (mal'ak) that he could have used to convey that thought.  And if Satan meant “angels”, then when Jehovah said, “they have become like one of US”, He included Himself as an angel. But instead, Satan said “elohim”, which means “mighty ones”.  And when Jehovah said, “they have become like one of US”, he confirmed that they indeed became like one of the mighty ones, Himself included. Of course you will remain in denial, as is your norm.  And of course, I will keep moving forward, showing you even more things, as is my norm. In the end, all will remain as it has been for years.

Hi Mike,

“mal'ak” means “messenger” and is attributed to Angels;
“EL-o-heem' has been attributed to Angels before as well.
You know this, but you appear to be turning a blind eye to it.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,18:51)

…..I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be.

As God intended it to be……….. EXCEPT FOR 1 John 5:7 and the fact they say “gods” in Gen 3:5 when it should be “angels”, right?

Let's see if we can find more ways the AKJV is NOT as God intended it to be, okay?

Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed? Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”.

What will be your song and dance this time?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,18:51) …..I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be. As God intended it to be……….. EXCEPT FOR 1 John 5:7 and the fact they say “gods” in Gen 3:5 when it should be “angels”, right?

Hi Mike,

I'd say the word 'gods' works OK there, that is except for you – who gets the wrong idea
out of it. Let me try to explain to you what I mean, because I'm sure you don't get my point.

The “AKJV Bible” uses the term “LORD of Hosts”,
what this means is “JEHOVAH of Armies”. So though
“JEHOVAH of Armies” is more accuratly translated – the
term “LORD of Hosts” brings better spiritual understanding.
And in like manor the word gods brings a more spiritual aspect.
But when you try to make the meaning physical, it misses the point.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,18:51) …..I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be. As God intended it to be……….. EXCEPT FOR 1 John 5:7 and the fact they say “gods” in Gen 3:5 when it should be “angels”, right?   Let's see if we can find more ways the AKJV is NOT as God intended it to be, okay? Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed?  Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”. What will be your song and dance this time?

Hi Mike,

Yes Mike, I would agree, false gods and/or Devils.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,19:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08) Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed?  Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”. What will be your song and dance this time? Hi Mike, I'd say the word 'gods' works OK there, that is except for you – who gets the wrong idea out of it.

I hope you don't mind that I omitted your song and dance about hosts and armies, since it doesn't have a dang thing to do with what we're discussing here.  

Now, you say that “gods” works OK there.  Is that an acknowledgment that there DO exists gods besides Jehovah?  It sure sounds like it.

And I'm not sure how I can “get the wrong idea”, Ed.  If the Hebrew text and the AKJV both equate demons with gods, then I just accept it as it was written.  Unlike you and most people, I don't feel the need to protect the scriptures from themselves by tinkering with definitions and what-not.

Anyway, are we agreed that demons are called gods in scripture?  YES or NO?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:37)

Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,19:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08) Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed?  Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”. What will be your song and dance this time? Hi Mike, I'd say the word 'gods' works OK there, that is except for you – who gets the wrong idea out of it. I hope you don't mind that I omitted your song and dance about hosts and armies, since it doesn't have a dang thing to do with what we're discussing here.   Now, you say that “gods” works OK there.  Is that an acknowledgment that there DO exists gods besides Jehovah?  It sure sounds like it. And I'm not sure how I can “get the wrong idea”, Ed.  If the Hebrew text and the AKJV both equate demons with gods, then I just accept it as it was written.  Unlike you and most people, I don't feel the need to protect the scriptures from themselves by tinkering with definitions and what-not. Anyway, are we agree then that demons are called gods in scripture?  YES or NO?

Sorry, my mistake.  NO gods does NOT work fine there!

You got my quote aligned with the wrong part.
I just edited out the part that didn't belong.
and your post beet mine by ONE MINUTE.

My EDIT was not done to change the content of my post, but to keep
my response in-line with what I was answering from YOUR post.

Now you have taken OUT the part I was answering and assigning it to what I was not answering.
So please readdress my post in the right context. Again sorry for the mix-up. My fault for not deleting it before posting.

Your friend
Ed

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,12:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,18:51) …..I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be. As God intended it to be……….. EXCEPT FOR 1 John 5:7 and the fact they say “gods” in Gen 3:5 when it should be “angels”, right? Hi Mike, I'd say the word 'gods' works OK there, that is except for you – who gets the wrong idea out of it. Let me try to explain to you what I mean, because I'm sure you don't get my point. The “AKJV Bible” uses the term “LORD of Hosts”, what this means is “JEHOVAH of Armies”. So though “JEHOVAH of Armies” is more accuratly translated – the term “LORD of Hosts” brings better spiritual understanding. And in like manor the word gods brings a more spiritual aspect. But when you try to make the meaning physical, it misses the point. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Please readdress this post.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,11:19)

Sorry Marty, I have no time for game-playing.  Nor do I have the time to start yet another discussion with you about the pre-existence of Jesus, just so you can yet again walk away from it. There is a post to you that I worked very hard on, about 20 or 30 pages back in this thread.  When you get the time to address that post, perhaps I'll again have time for you.

Hi Mike:

I know about your post. It is the same old thing, the same old spin, never accomplishing anything, because you are too proud to admit when you have made a mistake.

And so, I get tired of going over the same thing with you over and over again.

The scriptures state that for a Christian there is but “One God”, and it has already been explained to you why He calls the angels “gods”, and so, if you want to keep trying to refute this through your wisdom rather than believing the scriptures then you need to take up this discussion with someone else.

And the same goes, for the pre-existence of Christ. I have just showed you that you added some words to a scripture to justify your belief about this. But instead of simply acknowledging this, you take off on another tangent. There is no scripture which you can give me which states that Jesus pre-existed as a sentinent person prior to his birth into this world, and if no scripture, then you can argue this until you are blue in the face, and you will never be able to justify your belief in this.

And there is no scripture which shows that Jesus was changed from a man to some other form of being. He is still a man but no, longer has a mortal body but a spiritual one.

He was foreordained to come into the world at an appointed time to offer his life as a perfect sacrifice, and by it to reconcile unto God. He is the propitiation for the sins of all who obeyed God from creation unto the rapture of the church.

Quote

Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.

I still love you, in Christ, Mike,
Marty

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,12:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,12:08) Quote (Ed J @ June 30 2013,18:51) …..I consider it to be unabridged and as God intended to be. As God intended it to be……….. EXCEPT FOR 1 John 5:7 and the fact they say “gods” in Gen 3:5 when it should be “angels”, right?   Let's see if we can find more ways the AKJV is NOT as God intended it to be, okay? Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Which one of your four definitions of elohim will you apply to this verse, Ed?  Both the Hebrew text and your AKJV equate “devils” with “gods”. What will be your song and dance this time? Hi Mike, Yes Mike, I would agree, false gods and/or Devils. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

And this response addresses the last part of your post.

[Author]

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