ISM Scale

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ June 09 2013,15:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,08:44) t8, while we are again on this subject: 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever……… Is Jesus called a god in this scripture? Mike. Technically speaking, the reason we use 'a' is to say one, but to the Greek that is what THE is for. They gave either: THE god/God/one God Qualitatively god, of God's nature, counsel, mighty… So to translate it as a god could equally lead you to believe that it is THE God because The God is A God after all. Just more definite about it that is all. Hence definite article and indefinite. Taking a Greek concept and putting it into our English system can be like putting a square peg into a round hole. But I think of this in two ways: A particular God Or of God's nature or counsel which can apply to any number of relevant persons. a god to me could admittedly fit either concept in my English mind, but with my limited Greek understanding, there is no room for 'a god'. They had no indefinite article and were not worse off for it. If they had no indefinite article then it is likely that they never thought 'a god'. Rather God or god with the latter being equally applied to any number of persons. e.g., Ye are theos is talking of more than one, and other references of theos are not. The number is determined not by 'a' or a lack of it, but by the context and I guess even a number could work, although I don't know if that is the case. Just guessing with that one. So if we look at John 1:1c, is it teaching us that the Word is another THE God or is it saying that the Word is qualitatively God, then I choose the latter because I know Jesus existed in the form of God and not as God himself. He was divine. And we know that the Word is not multiple persons because it aligns it to Jesus whom we know is one person, thus we don't even need 'a' to know the Word is one. Because it was written in Greek, we are not really suppose to let the Greek be dictated by our English system, rather that we choose from our English system the best words to render the true intention and meaning of the Greek. That is the difficult part and sometimes requires adding in extra words to get a close fit, but then that does no justice if you want a strict word for word rendering which is often unintelligible to us. And when you let the English system dictate the Greek one, and say 'a god', then it has the double effect of not only changing the Greek but offending the English, especially the way that other scriptures are written in English such as “there is no other god but one”. I just prefer to not go there myself. I think it is unnecessary and leads to all kinds of misunderstandings that are not  necessary. Understanding god as a qualitative reference to being like God, having his nature, or being part of his counsel, is even accepted by some Trinitarian scholars too. So I think a more wise approach is to get them to see that the Father is the one true God and who Jesus really is without flipping them out to the point that they refuse to listen. I mean if you can get them to believe, then we should make every effort should we not? And I am not sacrificing truth either. Just showing respect for Greek, English, and the confusion from some precious souls on this subject.

Hi T8,

Yes, and that is precisely WHAT YOU ARE DOING when you say
men are called Angels – CERTAINLY NOT IN ENGLISH THEIR NOT!

EL-o-heem (and “Theos” is similar) translates into English as each of the following:  

1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders.
4. Magistrates

So I completely agree with: Taking a Greek concept and putting it into our English system
                                           can be like putting a square peg into a round hole.

…so for you to say men are called Angels is FALSE! (but you can believe it if you want)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,18:12)

I could be qualitatively be referred to as an angel (heavenly) and yet not actually be one.

I think you are confusing “qualitatively” with “metaphorically”.  You can metaphorically be called an angel because you did something good, and angels of God are generally considered to be good.

Qualitatively, on the other hand, refers to you having the qualities that an angel has.  IMO, you would have to be a powerful spirit being who dwells in the heavenly realms to qualitatively be an angel.

But at any rate, whether you are qualitatively called “angel”, or metaphorically called “angel”, it could equally be said that you are “AN angel”.  For one who is qualitatively “angel” is, by necessity, “AN angel”.  Nobody would say, t8 is angel.  Instead, they would say, t8 is AN angel.  (BTW, I believe you ARE an angel.   )

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,18:12)

And even when you can be qualitatively something and actually be it too, doesn't give us license to take a qualitative use of a word and translate it literally.

Can you give me an example of someone being qualitatively something, but we are not allowed to say that person is “a something”?

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,18:12)

But I repeat, it is IMO a small technicality and nothing to divide over.

Agreed.  You are allowed to be wrong once in a while.  

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,18:12)

Scripture says that Jesus existed in the form of God. So that is qualitative. It doesn't say that he existed as God or as a god, which is the rendering you might give in John 1:1c, i.e., as another god then making 2 gods/Gods.

What is YOUR definition of the words “el”, “elohim”, “theos”, and “god”?  The oldest known meaning of “el” is “mighty one”.  Do you agree with that definition?  If not, please tell me yours.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,22:16)

So I think a more wise approach is to get them to see that the Father is the one true God and who Jesus really is without flipping them out to the point that they refuse to listen.

Like I said in my post to 2B, you “candy coat” it for them, as if they were children. I will continue to tell it the way it is. They can either accept the scriptures for exactly what they teach, or they can refuse to accept them because of their man-made belief that there LITERALLY exists only ONE “mighty one” (god).

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,22:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2013,08:44) t8, while we are again on this subject: 8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever……… Is Jesus called a god in this scripture? Mike. Technically speaking, the reason we use 'a' is to say one, but to the Greek that is what THE is for. They gave either: THE god/God/one God Qualitatively god, of God's nature, counsel, mighty…

Well, technically speaking, Jesus is called “THE god” in Hebrews 1. And you say that “THE god” is “A god”, right?

So is Jesus “a god”? (Your post didn't seem to actually address the verse in question.)

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 10 2013,00:52)

Hi T8, Yes, and that is precisely WHAT YOU ARE DOING when you say men are called Angels – CERTAINLY NOT IN ENGLISH THEIR NOT! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Except of course in a Qualitative way.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ June 08 2013,22:16)

a god to me could admittedly fit either concept in my English mind, but with my limited Greek understanding, there is no room for 'a god'.

Okay.  But then you need to follow suit with EVERY scripture in the Bible, and remove the indefinite article “a” from all of them.

Are you willing to do that?  

Isaiah 44:17
From the rest he makes a god, his idol; he bows down to it and worships. He prays to it and says, “Save me! You are my god!”

Will you change “a god” in the above scripture to “God”?  Will you “explain it away” by insisting these idols made of wood and stone are “qualitatively God”?  Will either of those fit the context?  Or is “a god” sometimes implied and necessary in scripture?

Your words in the quote box above label you as one of the people Origen said this about:

They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked.

I don't believe your fear is driving you to “wicked” doctrines, but it is causing you to “explain away” a very simple scriptural teaching.  And not even very well.  Your explanation of “qualitatively god” doesn't even work UNLESS you can show me an example of someone being, say, “qualitatively devil” and NOT being able to be called “A devil”.

For instance, you use the example of John 6:70, where you say Judas was called “qualitatively devil”.  But can you find any translation of scripture where that verse is not listed as either “a devil” or “the devil”?  

If you cannot, then my point stands confirmed that anyone who is “qualitatively devil” is, by necessity, “A devil”.  And therefore, anyone who is “qualitatively god” is also, by necessity, “A god”. Just like anyone who is thought of as “qualitatively angel” is NEVER called “qualitatively angel”. Instead, they are called “AN angel”.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,02:01)

Well, technically speaking, Jesus is called “THE god” in Hebrews 1.  And you say that “THE god” is “A god”, right? So is Jesus “a god”?  (Your post didn't seem to actually address the verse in question.)

Hi Mike,

Hebrews 1:8-9 is merely a reiteration of Psalm 45:6-7.
“No” we have been through this before, remember?
Who does “God” refer to in Psalm 45:6-7 – YHVH!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2013,07:39)

The bible says clearly there are no other “Gods” (Isa 44:8)

Psalm 8:5 King James Version
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Ed, the bolded words above are really “the gods” in Hebrew.  The MOST HIGH god made man a little lower than “the gods”.  So tell me again how there is LITERALLY only ONE god.

And since Abe brought it up, let's continue:

Genesis 1:26 King James Version
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness……

Who is the “US”?

Genesis 3:5 King James Version
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who are these “gods”?

Genesis 3:22 King James Version
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil……….

These scriptures are all from your beloved AKJV, Ed.  Are you beginning to see the picture?  First, mankind was made in the image of God and His spirit sons (also gods), but God made us a little lower than those gods.  Then Satan actually told the truth to Eve by saying if she ate of the fruit, she would become like those gods, knowing good from evil.  Then, after she and Adam ate of that fruit, God confirmed that Satan told the truth in this case by saying they HAD INDEED become like “one of US”, knowing good from evil.

So all you guys really have to do in order to understand what the scriptures TRULY teach is put away your man-made idea that the word “god” means “Almighty Creator of all things”, because it simply means “mighty one”.  Then, you need to substitute the word “god” in passages like Isaiah 44:8 with the words “mighty one” to get the EMPHATICAL (not LITERAL) meaning of the words.

Then you will begin to understand that Jehovah was saying, Is there a mighty one besides me?  I know of none!  And once you understand that, you will know that Jehovah was speaking EMPHATICALLY, placing Himself ABOVE any of the other mighty ones that we already KNOW have existed, because they are clearly detailed all throughout scripture.  You will begin to understand that Jehovah wasn't speaking LITERALLY, or else the titles “MOST High god” and “god OF gods” would not even make sense.

Ed, I can only lead you guys to the water.  It's up to you whether you drink it, or like in 2B's case, walk away from it thirsty.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2013,09:30)

Who does “God” refer to in Psalm 45:6-7 – YHVH!

Really Ed?

So verse 7 says that Jehovah's God set Him above His companions?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ June 08 2013,22:47)

T8, I know that it takes Mike a long time to do his posts and I did read them all, but every discussion between two or three people on one particular topic needs to eventually come to an end.

2B,

You are correct that I DID work long and hard on those posts – so I'm glad you read them.

And you walking away from the discussion is not what bothers me.  What I fear is that, just like Ed always does, you'll walk away from the scriptural information I painstakingly laid out for you yesterday – only to start making the same exact claims in a month from now that I solidly and scripturally refuted yesterday in this thread.  (You'll notice how Ed himself said in one of his posts today, “we have been through this before, remember?”  That's because we HAVE been through this before, and like you, he walked away that last time just to pop up in this thread months later spouting the same unscriptural things – expecting me to go through all that work AGAIN.)

So if you truly read my posts, then please take this scriptural knowledge with you:

1.  The words “el”, “elohim”, “theos”, and “god” simply mean “mighty one”.  The word “god” does NOT mean “Almighty Creator of All Things” – although the word many times refers to that One as the “mighty one” in question.

2.  God made mankind a little lower than the gods.  That right there tells you, without a doubt, that Jehovah is NOT literally the ONLY god in existence, and that passages like Is 44:8 are to be taken EMPHATICALLY – not LITERALLY.

3.  Since the word “god” simply means “mighty one”, and Jesus is the second most mighty being in existence, he has more right to be called a god than the thousands of angels he rules over.  (That was Jesus' point in John 10:34-36, 2B.  He was referring to the gods in Jehovah's heavenly counsel when he said, if He called them gods, then why not this one in front of you, who is more than any of them because he is the ONE who was personally set apart by God as His very own, and sent into the world?)

Take those things with you.  Keep them safe in your head, because they truly are what the scriptures teach.

[abe]

Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,04:36)

Quote (abe @ June 09 2013,20:15) Hi, Gen.1:26   Then God said, “Let     *Us*     make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 7And the    *LORD*    God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Do any of you think  US  equals  LORD? Peace brothers… Abe, Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let Usmake man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. If we put it all together we have: “Us–Our image–His own image–The image of God–The Lord God.” Some will say that God was conversing with angels but I don't think so. What do you think, Abe? I would love to hear what you think that verse in Genesis means to you. (we'll just block everyone else out for the moment, okay!)

Hi 2b,

The Seven Spirits of God, which were created In the First Day (Light).

Col.1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us
meet(worthy) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the Kingdom of the Son of his love;
14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15 who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God, the First Born of all CREATION; 16for IN him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto(into) him; 17and he is BEFORE all things, and IN him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING, the FIRSTBORN from the DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it was the Good Pleasure of the Father that IN him should all the fulness dwell; 20and THROUGH him to Reconcile all things unto(into) Himself(God), having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.

“who is the IMAGE of the Invisible God,”

‘Wisdom' of God
‘Spirit' of God‘Word' of God
‘Word' of God
‘Knowledge' of God
‘Understanding' of God
'Counsel' of God
‘Light’ of God

Different ‘Parts' of the Son of God.

1Cor.12:12 For even as the body is One and [yet] has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by ONE Spirit we were all baptized into ONE Body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

14For the body is not one member, but MANY. 15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the BODY, just as He desired. 19 If they were all ONE member, where would the body be? 20But now there are MANY members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those [members] of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow MORE abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need [of it]. But *God* has [so] composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that [member] which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but [that] the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

27Now YOU are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed IN the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, [various] kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not [workers of] miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way

*Love of God*

Peace brother………

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:01)

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2013,07:39) The bible says clearly there are no other “Gods” (Isa 44:8) Psalm 8:5 King James Version For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Ed, the bolded words above are really “the gods” in Hebrew.

Hi Mike, did you somehow miss this post?

EL-o-heem (and “Theos” is similar) translates into English as each of the following:  

1. GOD
2. Angels
3. Leaders.
4. Magistrates

So I completely agree with T8: Taking a Hebrew concept and putting it into our English system
                                              can be like putting a square peg into a round hole.

Angels are NOT gods, any more than we are; why, do you consider us gods as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:01)

Genesis 3:5 King James Version For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Who are these “gods”?

No Mike,

“IF” someone were to say: 'you are as dumb as an ox, would that mean you were an ox?
So you see your logic collapses is we use it in a different embodiment. Also the bible says…
King Neb. was made as the beast's of the field and he did eat grass as the ox. (Dan 4:33)
That did not mean he was an ox, and neither are you. Nor are there any other Gods.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:01)

Ed, I can only lead you guys to the water.

Hi Mike,

Are you suggesting 'your opinion' is as water?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:02)

Quote (Ed J @ June 09 2013,09:30) Who does “God” refer to in Psalm 45:6-7 – YHVH! Really Ed? So verse 7 says that Jehovah's God set Him above His companions?

Hi Mike,

The object starts in verses 1, which is Jesus.
And the subject is “God's Kingdom” on Earth.

“I speak of the things which I have made touching “the king”=74 (Jesus=74): my tongue is the pen
 of a ready writer. Thou(Jesus) art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into
 thy lips: therefore God(YHVH) hath blessed thee for ever” (Psalms 45:1-2)

Thy throne, O God(YHVH), is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a                              (<– Subject, God's Kingdom)
right sceptre. Thou(Jesus Christ) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:                           (<– Object, The King=Jesus)
therefore God(YHVH), thy God(YHVH), hath anointed thee(“Messiah”=74)
with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” (Psalms 45:6-7)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:30)

2B, What I fear is that, just like Ed always does, you'll walk away from the scriptural information I painstakingly laid out for you yesterday – only to start making the same exact claims in a month from now that I solidly and scripturally refuted yesterday in this thread.

Hi Mike,

No you haven't.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:30)

2B, (You'll notice how Ed himself said in one of his posts today, “we have been through this before, remember?”  That's because we HAVE been through this before, and like you, he walked away that last time just to pop up in this thread months later spouting the same unscriptural things – expecting me to go through all that work AGAIN.)

Hi Mike,

It is you that ignores the Scripture's that I have shown you that contradicts your opinions.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 10 2013,07:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 10 2013,03:01) Ed, I can only lead you guys to the water. Hi Mike, Are you suggesting 'your opinion' is as water? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

“The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea.
 Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever.” (Psalms 93:4-5)

[2besee]

Quote (abe @ June 10 2013,07:30)

Quote (2besee @ June 09 2013,04:36) Quote (abe @ June 09 2013,20:15) Hi, Gen.1:26   Then God said, “Let     *Us*     make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 7And the    *LORD*    God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Do any of you think  US  equals  LORD? Peace brothers… Abe, Gen.1:26 Then God said, “Let Usmake man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 7And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. If we put it all together we have: “Us–Our image–His own image–The image of God–The Lord God.” Some will say that God was conversing with angels but I don't think so. What do you think, Abe? I would love to hear what you think that verse in Genesis means to you. (we'll just block everyone else out for the moment, okay!) Hi 2b, The Seven Spirits of God, which were created   In   the First Day (Light). Col.1:12   giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet(worthy) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints   in light; 13  who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the   Kingdom  of the  Son   of his love; 14  in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15  who is the    IMAGE    of the  Invisible  God, the  First Born   of all   CREATION;   16for   IN   him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created THROUGH   him, and    unto(into)    him; 17and he is BEFORE   all things, and   IN    him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the BEGINNING,    the  FIRSTBORN  from the   DEAD;   that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it was the Good Pleasure    of the Father    that   IN   him should all the fulness dwell; 20and   THROUGH   him to   Reconcile all things   unto(into)   Himself(God), having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens. “who is the    IMAGE    of the  Invisible  God,” ‘Wisdom' of God ‘Spirit' of God‘Word' of God ‘Word' of God ‘Knowledge' of God ‘Understanding' of God 'Counsel' of God ‘Light’ of God Different ‘Parts' of the Son of God. 1Cor.12:12   For even as the body is   One   and [yet] has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13For by ONE   Spirit we were all baptized into  ONE  Body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14For the body is not one member, but    MANY.    15If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 16And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not [a part] of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less [a part] of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the BODY, just as He desired. 19   If    they were all   ONE   member, where would the   body   be? 20But now there are  MANY members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23  and those [members] of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow MORE  abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need [of it]. But  *God*  has [so] composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that [member] which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but [that] the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if [one] member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27Now    YOU    are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed   IN   the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, [various] kinds of tongues. 29All are not   apostles,   are they? All are not prophets,   are they? All are not   teachers,   are they? All are not   [workers of] miracles,   are they? 30All do not have    gifts of healings,    do they? All do not    speak with tongues,    do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way *Love of God* Peace brother………

Hi Abe.
So if I understand that right, please tell me if I do or if I don't: the one God has many parts, just as the body has many parts: the human body and also the body of Christ which is the church, each being an important part of the one body. And the seven spirits of God being a part of God is the “our image” which man was made in as spoken of in Genesis.

So, how do you feel the one spirit fits in with that?

Is it that the seven spirits combined make up the one spirit of God which is called the Holy Spirit?

[2besee]

Hi T8.

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But a good end is when one or both persons say, I don't know, you could be right, I agree. If both disagree, then one or both the persons have a problem and leaving the problem never solves the problem.

But when it comes to discussions of this nature, sometimes both parties will NEVER agree and so when you come to realize that fact, it is best to discontinue that particular topic and move onto something else with that person, agree? Otherwise that particular discussion with that person could go on and on and on. UNLESS a very valid thought or question later comes up, then the conversation might restart.

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If you make a good point and Mike is stumped and refuses to say that he has no answer to your good point, then he has basically lost.

Yes. But it seems that Mike does not do that, instead he will ask (sorry Mike) ridiculous questions or ignore the good point/s and move onto another point.

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And of course vice versa. If he has a good point and you have no answer, be honest about it as it helps everyone.

Yes.

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Leave on a good note

Of course!

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