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Quote (2besee @ June 05 2013,16:25) I see the word that was with God and was God as being the ONLY ONE God
So if the Word was with God and the Word is actually God, then that is the same as believing that God was with God is it not? And if God was with God, how many Gods do you count? Please answer.Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,18:09) Quote (abe @ June 03 2013,17:02) My definition is: “a mighty one”. Sorry, I don't see “a mighty one”.
That's right, Abe. Nor would you see “something people sit on” if the scripture was speaking of a couch. You would only see “couch”.So in the English version of the scriptures you posted, we see the word “god”. In the Greek version of that scripture, we would see “theos”. And in the Hebrew version, we'd see “el”, or “elohim”.
My question was: How do you personally DEFINE those words? What is YOUR definition of “el”, “elohim”, “theos”, and “god”?
Are you up to speed on the assignment now?
Hi Mike,Defining God?
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
Jer.32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all Flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?
Heb.12:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of Spirits, and live?
God of all flesh. Father of the Spirits.
Amen.
Peace brother.
Quote (t8 @ June 05 2013,16:22) Quote (2besee @ June 05 2013,16:25) I see the word that was with God and was God as being the ONLY ONE God
So if the Word was with God and the Word is actually God, then that is the same as believing that God was with God is it not? And if God was with God, how many Gods do you count? Please answer.
Hi T8,“To us there is but one God, the Father”
This is all through scripture. Why would John 1.1 be any different? I did not come to understand this on my own or through any doctrines. I went directly in prayer for understanding after the words of John 1:1 were put in my head.
“You search the scripture thinking that in them you will find eternal life but it is these that testify of me and you refuse to come to me to have life”.
Okay, we both agree there.
There is one God, the Father.I take it that you also agree that Jesus is the Lord, the son of God, and the messiah.
Quote (942767 @ June 04 2013,19:50) Hi Mike: I do not call my boss at work “lord”……
When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh.
No Marty,I don't believe many of us today call our boss “lord”. But in Paul's day, many Christians DID have earthly lords along with their heavenly lords Jesus and Jehovah, right?
So if I was a slave in Paul's day, I would have been instructed to obey and respect my earthly lord, my heavenly lord Jesus Christ, and my heavenly Lord God Almighty.
This is the scriptural truth of the matter, so there's no use in trying to get around it, Marty. Which leaves only one question:
How could Paul say Jesus was our “ONE lord” if he already knew some of his disciples would have three or more of them?
You have to decide for yourself if Paul was speaking LITERALLY about Jesus being our ONLY lord – or emphatically, in order to place Jesus as our HIGHEST lord next to God Almighty Himself. In light of the evidence, which one do you think?
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,20:25) Mike, I see the word that was with God and was God as being the ONLY ONE God as I am certain John also knew.
So you believe it makes sense for John to say the ONLY ONE God was WITH the ONLY ONE God in the beginning? Hmmmmm…………… Well, that explains a lot about you, 2B.BTW, I am exactly as polytheistic as the inspired writers of the scriptures. I worship and serve only ONE God, Jehovah. But I don't turn a blind eye to hundreds of scriptures just because I WANT there to literally exist only one “el”.
2B, we know from scripture that Jehovah is the Most High God of gods, right? So tell me, who are some of these less high gods that Jehovah is the God OF. Can you do that?
Quote (terraricca @ June 04 2013,20:41) Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,08:25)
Hi Pierre:No, Jesus is not the first created, that may be your interpretation of the scriptures, but Adam and Eve were the first created human beings, and Jesus according to the scriptures is the seed of the woman, and he was born into this world according to scriptures being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary according to the scriptures, and he was born into this world an infant just like the rest of us except that he was not born of the sperm of man, and he grew in wisdom and stature according to the gospel of Luke, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit and anointed as God's Christ, and was tempted every way that man was tempted and did not sin but obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and God exalted him to be the head of the church, and no man can come to the Father but through him. He is the propitiation that God has provided for the sins of the whole world, and anyone who desires to come to God with a repentant heart can come to him through Jesus and be saved from destruction.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyIf what you say is true ,then Christ himself his a liar, because he said that he came down from the father ,and that now he will go back to his father,
It seems you have killed a lot of scriptures and make a lot of liars of prophets,
Spot on, Pierre. All they need to do is read and BELIEVE:John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!”
How can somebody possibly come DOWN from heaven, unless he was UP there to begin with?
I wonder if any of those disciples ended up seeing Jesus “ascend to where he was before”?
Acts 1
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
It seems quite evident that some of those disciples DID see Jesus “ascend to where he was before” after all.
Yet, even though this teaching is so simple that a 1st grader can grasp it, many people have blinded themselves with their personal wishes, and are therefore unable to see it.
In Marty's post above, I've taken the liberty of bolding the personal wish that has blinded him. He WANTS so badly for Jesus to have been “just like the rest of us” that he has blinded himself to certain scriptural teachings. Well, I suppose it could be the god of this age who has blinded the mind of Marty, so that he cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Cor 4:4) I say this because I'm quite sure that Marty doesn't realize the true light of the gospel – which was not that God chose a random human being and gave him great power and authority, but that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son from heaven to earth for us.
But I personally believe Marty's (and Gene's, Kerwin's, Abe's, and 2B's) blindness is a self affliction caused by their practice of putting their personal WISHES over what the scriptures actually teach.
Pierre and t8, keep fighting the good fight!
(BTW Marty, there isn't one thing in your words above that would prohibit Jesus from existing in the form of God BEFORE he was made in the likeness of a human being, and all the things you listed happened to him. Are you aware of that?)
Quote (abe @ June 04 2013,21:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,18:09) How do you personally DEFINE those words? What is YOUR definition of “el”, “elohim”, “theos”, and “god”?
Hi Mike,God of all flesh. Father of the Spirits.
Okay. Let's see if that definition fits some scriptures:2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers…….Is the god mentioned above the “God of all flesh”? Is he the “Father of the Spirits”?
Deuteronomy 10:17
For Jehovah your God is God of gods……….Does the above verse say that Jehovah is the Father of the Spirit “Father of the Spirits”? Is Jehovah the God of all the “gods of all flesh”?
See how your “blanket” definition of the word “god” does not work? Try again.
(I'm willing to share my “mighty one” definition with you, if you ever come to your senses. Let me know.)
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,04:33) Mike 1. How do you understand Jesus as Lord?
2. Do you communicate with Jesus as you would a trusted, loved, and very close person?
1. Jesus is the highest master I have, next to his own master, Jehovah.2. Yes.
Now, can you DIRECTLY answer some of the points in my posts?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2013,13:25) I don't believe many of us today call our boss “lord”. But in Paul's day, many Christians DID have earthly lords along with their heavenly lords Jesus and Jehovah, right?
People of England follow many lords.The House of Lords is the upper house of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Most new members of the House of Lords are appointed and there were as of 11 June 2012, 763 lords . England also has a queen or king because it is a monarchy.
So let's summarise. A king or queen with lords beneath.
Further, prior to 1902, the Prime Minister sometimes came from the House of Lords, so he would have been the prime lord under the king or queen.
So let's create a sentence from this. For us there is one King of England and one Lord, the Prime Lord or Prime Minister.
Small Print:
Admittedly this does not completely work because the Prime Minister cannot come from the House of Lords anymore due to it being seen as as an elected position with too much power, (like the presidential system). So the Prime Minister comes from the lower House, the House of Commons.And I assume there are many other lords who are under the Prime lord, who himself has the King as his own lord.
So if I said, “For us, there is but one lord, the King”, would I be speaking LITERALLY? Or EMPHATICALLY?
John 19:15
But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.Do you suppose these Jews suddenly decided to disown their God Jehovah, who they'd been calling their King for centuries?
Or were they speaking EMPHATICALLY in the moment?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2013,12:33) BTW, I am exactly as polytheistic as the inspired writers of the scriptures. I worship and serve only ONE God, Jehovah. But I don't turn a blind eye to hundreds of scriptures just because I WANT there to literally exist only one “el”. 2B, we know from scripture that Jehovah is the Most High God of gods, right? So tell me, who are some of these less high gods that Jehovah is the God OF. Can you do that?
Quote I am exactly as polytheistic as the inspired writers of the scriptures. I worship and serve only ONE God, Jehovah. But I don't turn a blind eye to hundreds of scriptures just because I WANT there to literally exist only one “el Mike,
Psalm 96
“For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. 6 Honor and majesty are before him: strength and beauty are in his sanctuary.Jeremiah 10,
“Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.
“It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens.
Every man is stupid, devoid of knowledge; Every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; For his molten images are deceitful, And there is no breath in them.“As you can see, all other gods are man made, and idols, and will be destroyed.
“Is there a God beside me? yea,there is no God; I know not any.”
… I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me…
…Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else…
“Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after”.
You know there are many other scriptures, whole chapters saying the same thing.
Quote (2besee @ June 06 2013,13:37) Mike, Psalm 96
“For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens. 6 Honor and majesty are before him: strength and beauty are in his sanctuary.Jeremiah 10,
“Thus you shall say to them, “The gods that did not make the heavens and the earth will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.
“It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens.
Every man is stupid, devoid of knowledge; Every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; For his molten images are deceitful, And there is no breath in them.“As you can see, all other gods are man made, and idols, and will be destroyed.
Hi 2Besee,Spot-on!
Amen
Quote (2besee @ June 06 2013,13:46) “Is there a God beside me? yea,there is no God; I know not any.” … I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me…
…Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else…
“Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after”.
You know there are many other scriptures, whole chapters saying the same thing.
Hi 2Besee,They want to believe there are, posting Scripture that says there aren't is going to stop them.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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