ISM Scale

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,16:36)

Mike and T, Look at it this way: If you had a wife who you loved with all of your heart and breath, although there are many wives out there in the world , to YOU, in your mind and heart there is only one wife.

Agreed, 2B. This is what I've been saying all along.

So YOUR wife wouldn't LITERALLY be the ONLY wife in existence, but in your own heart and mind, she is the most important one – the one you hold in the highest regard.

You have hit the nail right on the head. Now go and apply that God-given common sense to 1 Cor 8:5-6.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (abe @ June 03 2013,17:02)

My definition is: “a mighty one”. Sorry, I don't see “a mighty one”.

That's right, Abe. Nor would you see “something people sit on” if the scripture was speaking of a couch. You would only see “couch”.

So in the English version of the scriptures you posted, we see the word “god”. In the Greek version of that scripture, we would see “theos”. And in the Hebrew version, we'd see “el”, or “elohim”.

My question was: How do you personally DEFINE those words? What is YOUR definition of “el”, “elohim”, “theos”, and “god”?

Are you up to speed on the assignment now?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ June 03 2013,17:51)

Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,04:36) Mike and T, Look at it this way: If you had a wife who you loved with all of your heart and breath, although there are many wives out there in the world , to YOU, in your mind and heart there is only one wife. 2bee this is true .but I will not deny that their are no other women or wives like you do about gods

Astute point, Pierre.

You and I can easily understand (the FIRST time) what 2B was saying about one's own wife.

So why can these guys NOT understand (after 100 times) when you and I are saying the SAME EXACT THING about “lord” and “god”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,17:43)

The word used for God's position is “ex” which means “from, or out of”. http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/8-6.htm The word used for Jesus' position is “dia” which means “on account of OR through or because of. “on account of/because of” fits in with ALL of the scriptures as as whole.

So God made dinosaurs on earth “on account of” Jesus – who wasn't even around to enjoy them?

2B, your own words say that “through” is also one of the options. In fact, “through” is the most common way that word is translated. Why would you opt for a less common definition, when the most obvious one also fits every scripture in the Bible?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,18:00)

T, I don't DENY there are other so called gods but for me there IS only ONE GOD. Abe gets what i mean!

Wait a minute here.  I didn't hear you saying there were other so-called wives, did I?

If you understand the concept WITHOUT saying “so called” wives, then why can't you understand the same exact concept without ADDING the words “so-called” before “god”?  

Another double standard?

[terraricca]

Mike

Abe,and 2bee have now join Edj class room

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,19:31)

So even if there are so called gods (idols?), to us.. there is..but ONE God, the Father.

But Paul goes on to say there ARE INDEED MANY GODS, both in heaven and on earth.

Which “idol” dwells in God's kingdom in heaven, 2B?

[mikeboll64]

2B,

What is YOUR definition of “god”?

Abe? I'm still waiting for yours.

Also, it would be nice for you guys to admit that you have more than one “lord”, and so the words “for us there is but one lord” are not LITERAL.

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,18:25)

2B, What is YOUR definition of “god”? Abe?  I'm still waiting for yours. Also, it would be nice for you guys to admit that you have more than one “lord”, and so the words “for us there is but one lord” are not LITERAL.

Hi Mike,

Acts4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. 14And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it. 15But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, 16Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it. 17But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name. 18And they called them, and

Commanded them NOT to speak at all nor teach in the

name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to

hearken unto YOU more than unto God, judge ye.

20For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. 21So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.

Do you think they stopped Preaching?

Peace…………..

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,18:22)

Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,18:00) T, I don't DENY there are other so called gods but for me there IS only ONE GOD. Abe gets what i mean! Wait a minute here.  I didn't hear you saying there were other so-called wives, did I? If you understand the concept WITHOUT saying “so called” wives, then why can't you understand the same exact concept without ADDING the words “so-called” before “god”?   Another double standard?

Hi Mike,

What are you selling??

Peace.

[2besee]

Mike,
God making everything “through” Jesus, who you claim was another God, does NOT fit every scripture in the Bible, Mike.

what of the other scriptures, which say that God ALONE created the heavens and the earth, and that no other God was with or beside him?

“Is there a God beside me? yea,there is no God; I know not any.”

… I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me…

…Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else…

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.”

And you know that that is only some scriptures.

God's own word and spirit were sufficient, and Paul who was a Jew would have KNOWN that.
Does it not make more sense for Paul to be meaning that all things were made on account of Jesus Christ, and all of those who came after him who have been gifted with eternal life?
Do you doubt that God knows everything before it happens?
Mike, does God KNOW everything that happens before it happens?

[2besee]

Mike

How do you understand Jesus as Lord?
Do you communicate with Jesus as you would a trusted, loved, and very close person?

That question is for anyone else too.

“For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”.

[mikeboll64]

No 2B,

It DOESN'T make sense to me that all things were created “on account of” a regular old human being like the rest of us who didn't exist until 2000 years ago.

For example, were the dinosaurs created “on account of” Jesus?  How could they be if he wasn't even around to experience them, according to you?

Also, you posted scriptures that you think refute a translation of “through Jesus”, but not one of them actually does that for you.  For example, did God ALONE, AND BY HIMSELF, create YOU?  Of course He did.  But did He do that THROUGH your parents?  Yes.  Did God alone create Eve?  Yep.  But was she created THROUGH Adam?  Yep.

John 1:3 actually clarifies this “through” versus “on account of” discussion by saying, “not one thing that has been made was made without him”.  But in order for you to see the light of this testimony, you must first realize that the person John calls the Word of God in his gospel is the same person he calls the Word of God in Revelation 19:13.

I've painstakingly explained how each and every word said about “the Word” in John 1 was also said elsewhere in scripture about Jesus – but you would have none of it.

I even showed you how some of the things said about “the Word” in John 1 couldn't possibly apply to anyone EXCEPT FOR Jesus – but you just went and made up a “Holy Spirit Son of God” that those words could apply to instead.  So when I showed you that John the Baptist came to testify about “the Word”, you merged this “Holy Spirit Son of God”, that you made up, with Jesus, so that those scriptures could then apply to this merged being.

I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to let the SCRIPTURES make up your mind for you – to no avail.  You simply refuse to believe that Jesus was existing in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being – despite the fact that Paul said exactly that.  What more can I do, 2B?  

Nothing really.  So you go on believing what you want to believe, and I'll go on believing the truth of the scriptures.

It is the same with the “god” thing.  You and Abe and Gene LAUGH at me and Pierre for simply stating what the scriptures say.  You insist there is LITERALLY only ONE god in existence – despite the fact that there are MANY gods described all throughout scripture……….. some of them by JEHOVAH HIMSELF.

You ignore the fact that Jesus is called a god in at least 4 scriptures, and that Satan is called a god in at least as many.

You ignore the common sense God gave you when you pretend that Jehovah could possibly be the god OF gods at the same time He is the ONLY god.  How can He be the god OF other gods if He is the ONLY god?  

You pretend that the title “MOST HIGH god” makes some kind of sense even when Jehovah is the ONLY god.  How can He be the MOST HIGH god if there aren't LESS HIGH gods?  

I've been trying to attack this from a different angle by asking you guys to describe, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, the word “god”.  Why won't you do that for me?  What are you afraid of?

I've asked you all if Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord in light of Paul's words in 1 Cor 8:6 – but I get no direct answer to the question.

I've got Abe asking me what I'm “selling”, and making other smart-assed remarks, when all I'm doing is trying to help you guys put away those doctrines of men and let the SCRIPTURES do the teaching.  And I'm not even SELLING it, 2B.  Jesus taught me that since I received freely, I am to give freely.  That's what I'm trying to do – but you guys will have none of it.

2B, why not try to define the word “god” for me?  It will go along way towards helping you to understand what the scriptures truly teach.

[942767]

Hi Mike:

I do not call my boss at work “lord”, but lets look at 1 Co 8 and see what it states:

Quote

1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

It states that though there may be those that are called gods or lords, to us who are born again Christians, there is but “one God”, the Father, and One Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh.

And about the words “by” or “through” and how they relate in how every thing that God created, I have to apply what I believe the definition to what best goes with my understanding of the Word of God. Jesus is not the creator, God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Proclaimer]

@ 2B.

If what Mike says is correct in the above post, (I haven't followed this topic) I would be concerned about your doctrine if I were you. And if you are making up things as you go along in order to get around what is written in scripture, I would be concerned about the state of my heart if it was me.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,07:50)

Hi Mike: I do not call my boss at work “lord”, but lets look at 1 Co 8 and see what it states: Quote 1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)   1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.   It states that though there may be those that are called gods or lords, to us who are born again Christians, there is but “one God”, the Father, and One Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.   When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh. And about the words “by” or “through” and how they relate in how every thing that God created, I have to apply what I believe the definition to what best goes with my understanding of the Word of God.  Jesus is not the creator, God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Quote

God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

the first creation of God was Christ his son ;and through him God created all things ;the reason for men opportunity to be reconciled with their God it is because Christ intercedes for us and so prevent the destruction of men,just as Moses did when in the desert and pleaded with God who wanted to destroy the nation of Israel ,this is why he became the Lamb by stepping forward and came down to earth to fulfill this to save us ,this is and was the plan of God ,

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2013,13:03)

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,07:50) Hi Mike: I do not call my boss at work “lord”, but lets look at 1 Co 8 and see what it states: Quote 1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)   1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.   It states that though there may be those that are called gods or lords, to us who are born again Christians, there is but “one God”, the Father, and One Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.   When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh. And about the words “by” or “through” and how they relate in how every thing that God created, I have to apply what I believe the definition to what best goes with my understanding of the Word of God.  Jesus is not the creator, God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. And let me just add, although he is Lord over all of heaven and earth, he is not “a god”, but he is “God” in that he is “the express image of God's person”. Love in Christ, Marty Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. the first creation of God was Christ his son ;and through him God created all things ;the reason for men opportunity to be reconciled with their God it is because Christ intercedes for us and so prevent the destruction of men,just as Moses did when in the desert and pleaded with God who wanted to destroy the nation of Israel ,this is why he became the Lamb by stepping forward and came down to earth to fulfill this to save us ,this is and was the plan of God ,

Hi Pierre:

No, Jesus is not the first created, that may be your interpretation of the scriptures, but Adam and Eve were the first created human beings, and Jesus according to the scriptures is the seed of the woman, and he was born into this world according to scriptures being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary according to the scriptures, and he was born into this world an infant just like the rest of us except that he was not born of the sperm of man, and he grew in wisdom and stature according to the gospel of Luke, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit and anointed as God's Christ, and was tempted every way that man was tempted and did not sin but obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and God exalted him to be the head of the church, and no man can come to the Father but through him.  He is the propitiation that God has provided for the sins of the whole world, and anyone who desires to come to God with a repentant heart can come to him through Jesus and be saved from destruction.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[2besee]

Mike,

I see the word that was with God and was God as being the ONLY ONE God as I am certain John also knew. You however are a polytheist who has fallen into the Arian trap. You see the God in John 1 as being another God – there being two gods in that verse..I believe scriptures as coming together as a whole, whereas you add your own invention, as does Terraricca, to them..You try to understand God as if God were one of us rather than allowing God to be different – to be God, to be the one and only.

Could you PLEASE, Mike, answer my last post.
When something spiritually wonderful happens to you, do you share that with Jesus? Do you feel Jesus with you? How, to you, and Terraricca, is Jesus Lord, to you? Can you describe it?
And with worship, is worship to God the Father summed up in one word – Love?

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,08:25)

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2013,13:03) Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,07:50) Hi Mike: I do not call my boss at work “lord”, but lets look at 1 Co 8 and see what it states: Quote 1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)   1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.   It states that though there may be those that are called gods or lords, to us who are born again Christians, there is but “one God”, the Father, and One Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.   When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh. And about the words “by” or “through” and how they relate in how every thing that God created, I have to apply what I believe the definition to what best goes with my understanding of the Word of God.  Jesus is not the creator, God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. And let me just add, although he is Lord over all of heaven and earth, he is not “a god”, but he is “God” in that he is “the express image of God's person”. Love in Christ, Marty Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. the first creation of God was Christ his son ;and through him God created all things ;the reason for men opportunity to be reconciled with their God it is because Christ intercedes for us and so prevent the destruction of men,just as Moses did when in the desert and pleaded with God who wanted to destroy the nation of Israel ,this is why he became the Lamb by stepping forward and came down to earth to fulfill this to save us ,this is and was the plan of God , Hi Pierre: No, Jesus is not the first created, that may be your interpretation of the scriptures, but Adam and Eve were the first created human beings, and Jesus according to the scriptures is the seed of the woman, and he was born into this world according to scriptures being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary according to the scriptures, and he was born into this world an infant just like the rest of us except that he was not born of the sperm of man, and he grew in wisdom and stature according to the gospel of Luke, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit and anointed as God's Christ, and was tempted every way that man was tempted and did not sin but obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and God exalted him to be the head of the church, and no man can come to the Father but through him.  He is the propitiation that God has provided for the sins of the whole world, and anyone who desires to come to God with a repentant heart can come to him through Jesus and be saved from destruction. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

If what you say is true ,then Christ himself his a liar, because he said that he came down from the father ,and that now he will go back to his father,

According to your interpretation Christ never came down and was a common man that God raised to his glory and so this make Paul a liar as well ,because he said that Christ his the image of God and the first of creation before all things and that ALL things were created through him ,

It seems you have killed a lot of scriptures and make a lot of liars of prophets,

According to scriptures Mary was a surrogate mother to the son of God,

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2013,13:41)

Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,08:25) Quote (terraricca @ June 05 2013,13:03) Quote (942767 @ June 05 2013,07:50) Hi Mike: I do not call my boss at work “lord”, but lets look at 1 Co 8 and see what it states: Quote 1Cr 8:5   For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)   1Cr 8:6   But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.   It states that though there may be those that are called gods or lords, to us who are born again Christians, there is but “one God”, the Father, and One Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.   When we obey his Word, we will be obeying our masters after the flesh. And about the words “by” or “through” and how they relate in how every thing that God created, I have to apply what I believe the definition to what best goes with my understanding of the Word of God.  Jesus is not the creator, God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. And let me just add, although he is Lord over all of heaven and earth, he is not “a god”, but he is “God” in that he is “the express image of God's person”. Love in Christ, Marty Love in Christ, Marty Marty Quote God created everything with a plan which would be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. the first creation of God was Christ his son ;and through him God created all things ;the reason for men opportunity to be reconciled with their God it is because Christ intercedes for us and so prevent the destruction of men,just as Moses did when in the desert and pleaded with God who wanted to destroy the nation of Israel ,this is why he became the Lamb by stepping forward and came down to earth to fulfill this to save us ,this is and was the plan of God , Hi Pierre: No, Jesus is not the first created, that may be your interpretation of the scriptures, but Adam and Eve were the first created human beings, and Jesus according to the scriptures is the seed of the woman, and he was born into this world according to scriptures being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary according to the scriptures, and he was born into this world an infant just like the rest of us except that he was not born of the sperm of man, and he grew in wisdom and stature according to the gospel of Luke, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit and anointed as God's Christ, and was tempted every way that man was tempted and did not sin but obeyed God even unto death on the cross, and God exalted him to be the head of the church, and no man can come to the Father but through him.  He is the propitiation that God has provided for the sins of the whole world, and anyone who desires to come to God with a repentant heart can come to him through Jesus and be saved from destruction. Love in Christ, Marty Marty If what you say is true ,then Christ himself his a liar, because he said that he came down from the father ,and that now he will go back to his father, According to your interpretation Christ never came down and was a common man that God raised to his glory and so this make Paul a liar as well ,because he said that Christ his the image of God and the first of creation before all things and that ALL things were created through him , It seems you have killed a lot of scriptures and make a lot of liars  of prophets, According to scriptures Mary was a surrogate mother to the son of God,

Hi Pierre:

No, Christ is not a liar, but you are misunderstanding the scriptures. He did come down from the Father when he was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary and was born into this earth, and also, when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and began his ministry, the Word of God which became his spirit as he applied the Word of God in his daily life, also came from the Father. He said he only did what the Father showed him to do. And when he finshed his ministry of earth, he ascended to the Father at His right hand as head of the church.

I believe that the Lord is who will judge me as to whether or not I am teaching the truth or not, and I believe that you need to be careful that you do not try to assume his role.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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