- This topic has 1,509 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,15:46) Quote (2besee @ May 29 2013,20:14) Mike it doesn't matter if it says “so called gods” or “those called gods” because Paul goes on to say that EVEN IF THERE ARE….for US there is… One God, just as Jesus said.
Actually 2B,Paul went on to say, “as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”.
Now, do you agree with Paul that there truly ARE many lords? YES or NO?
Hi Mike.
Yes, there are many people real our not real or even things, that people CALL a God or gods, as there are many on earth who are called lord by title. The lords may be real people whom have that title, but the gods are made into gods by mans imagination, IMO. Yet for us, there is only one God who is TRUE, and in our minds there is only one whom we call lord as Jesus is our lord.Quote (2besee @ June 01 2013,11:11) Hi T. The “gods” in heaven and earth would be man made (imagined up 'so called' gods), whilst “lords” would be men who people call lord. So for us, though there are many whom man has called God/gods, there is only one TRUE God, and though there are many on earth with the title lord, there is only one lord, to us, the lord Jesus Christ.
One God in heaven and one lord from earth.
Now, let me ask you…. The word “true” as in “only one true God” means what (to you)?
2BEEQuote (imagined up 'so called' gods), they are not ;gods means MIGHTY ONES ;Ge 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
they real very real ;
what Paul says is that ;TO BE SAVED THERE IS ONLY BUT ONE TRUE AND ALMIGHTY GOD THE FATHER AND GOD OF CHRIST ,THE SON OF GOD,
understand that their is no other God that as a son called Jesus Christ and that teaches the kingdom and that offers eternal life and that he loves righteousness ,justice ,ect;
Hi T,
You realize that when i hear you taking about other gods, it's like listening to a seven year old speaking about the Incredible Hulk or Spiderman!
I hear what you are saying and I also believe in the Father and the Son. But when it comes to the title of God, there is only one true God.
People say that like begets like and God begot God. That makes two Gods. If like begot like then God is spirit, so spirit begot spirit, rather than God begot God, because there can only be one TRUE God. The opposite of true is false.
Do you see what I am saying?Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,18:16) Hi T,
You realize that when i hear you taking about other gods, it's like listening to a seven year old speaking about the Incredible Hulk or Spiderman!
I hear what you are saying and I also believe in the Father and the Son. But when it comes to the title of God, there is only one true God.
People say that like begets like and God begot God. That makes two Gods. If like begot like then God is spirit, so spirit begot spirit, rather than God begot God, because there can only be one TRUE God. The opposite of true is false.
Do you see what I am saying?
2BEEyou did not understand what I was saying ,your spiderman and hulk never existed ,those are imaginary figures
but not the ones in scriptures,please step back and read my comment again with the scriptures and see
Quote (942767 @ May 31 2013,22:07) Hi Mike: Yes, I would obey my masters after the flesh as long as they were not asking me to do something contrary to the Word of God.
Okay. So tell me HOW you would obey your earthly lords like Paul directed when you insist that Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord? Please explain.Quote (942767 @ May 31 2013,22:07) And so, when I get to heaven, I will sing the song……..
But will you sing that song to your Lord God, Jehovah? Or is Jehovah NOT your Lord? Which one please?Quote (942767 @ May 31 2013,22:07) And the scriptures that I quoted do not say that the universe came through Jesus Christ, because it didn't. Jesus is not the creator. The scriptures state: Quote Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Aside from the fact the KJV translators mistakenly used the word “by” when they should have used “through”, I really can't see how this scripture DOESN'T say all things were created through Jesus Christ. How is it that YOU can't see this clearly worded truth?Quote (942767 @ May 31 2013,22:07) Quote Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Apart from the fact that the KJV should have used the correct translation of “through” instead of “by”, I don't see how you can't understand the very clear teaching that God made the worlds through His Son, Jesus Christ.Marty, how is posting scriptures that clearly say all things WERE made through Jesus supposed to convince anyone that those things WEREN'T made through him? I don't get it.
Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,15:46) Quote (2besee @ May 29 2013,20:14) Mike it doesn't matter if it says “so called gods” or “those called gods” because Paul goes on to say that EVEN IF THERE ARE….for US there is… One God, just as Jesus said.
Actually 2B,Paul went on to say, “as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”.
Now, do you agree with Paul that there truly ARE many lords? YES or NO?
Hi Mike.
Yes………The lords may be real people whom have that title, but the gods are made into gods by mans imagination, IMO.
So why do you have a double standard, 2B? If you can understand that there are indeed many lords, and that those lords are real persons, why don't you understand “gods” the same way?Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Yet for us, there is only one God who is TRUE, and in our minds there is only one whom we call lord as Jesus is our lord.
And this, my friend, is what I'm after. I want to point out to all of you that this confusion all boils down to the way you've been TAUGHT by men to understand the word “god”.It is clear that ALL of you understand that there DO exist other lords – even for us. Jehovah is our Lord, and some of us also have other earthly lords. So you can all understand that when Paul says, “for us, there is but ONE Lord, Jesus Christ”, we can't possibly take that statement LITERALLY – as if Jehovah is NOT also our Lord. And we therefore also know that when Paul says, “as indeed there are many lords”, we CAN take it LITERALLY – because there ARE indeed many lords.
So we have to get to the bottom of your double standard, ie: Why you guys are able to understand the above clearly enough, but refuse to understand the same exact thing when the word “god” is used instead of the word “lord”.
So tell me, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, what the word “god” means – IN BIBLICAL TERMINOLOGY. In other words, search the scriptures for the words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”, and USING THOSE VERY SCRIPTURES, come up with a definition of what THEY understood those words to mean.
My definition is: “a mighty one”.
I understand that there are indeed many “mighty ones” (gods), as Paul himself said, and that there is only ONE mighty one who created all things. That ONE is the “god OF all the other gods”, and the “MOST HIGH god”. (Those last two titles of Jehovah, in and of themselves, should be enough to tell any enlightened person that there must exist OTHER gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the god OF them. They should tell us that there must be other LESS HIGH gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the MOST HIGH god.)
But let me hear your own definition, 2B. Also Marty, Kerwin, Abe, Gene, and anyone else who is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
What is YOUR definition of the Biblical words we translate as “god”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,07:30) Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,15:46) Quote (2besee @ May 29 2013,20:14) Mike it doesn't matter if it says “so called gods” or “those called gods” because Paul goes on to say that EVEN IF THERE ARE….for US there is… One God, just as Jesus said.
Actually 2B,Paul went on to say, “as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”.
Now, do you agree with Paul that there truly ARE many lords? YES or NO?
Hi Mike.
Yes………The lords may be real people whom have that title, but the gods are made into gods by mans imagination, IMO.
So why do you have a double standard, 2B? If you can understand that there are indeed many lords, and that those lords are real persons, why don't you understand “gods” the same way?Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Yet for us, there is only one God who is TRUE, and in our minds there is only one whom we call lord as Jesus is our lord.
And this, my friend, is what I'm after. I want to point out to all of you that this confusion all boils down to the way you've been TAUGHT by men to understand the word “god”.It is clear that ALL of you understand that there DO exist other lords – even for us. Jehovah is our Lord, and some of us also have other earthly lords. So you can all understand that when Paul says, “for us, there is but ONE Lord, Jesus Christ”, we can't possibly take that statement LITERALLY – as if Jehovah is NOT also our Lord. And we therefore also know that when Paul says, “as indeed there are many lords”, we CAN take it LITERALLY – because there ARE indeed many lords.
So we have to get to the bottom of your double standard, ie: Why you guys are able to understand the above clearly enough, but refuse to understand the same exact thing when the word “god” is used instead of the word “lord”.
So tell me, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, what the word “god” means – IN BIBLICAL TERMINOLOGY. In other words, search the scriptures for the words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”, and USING THOSE VERY SCRIPTURES, come up with a definition of what THEY understood those words to mean.
My definition is: “a mighty one”.
I understand that there are indeed many “mighty ones” (gods), as Paul himself said, and that there is only ONE mighty one who created all things. That ONE is the “god OF all the other gods”, and the “MOST HIGH god”. (Those last two titles of Jehovah, in and of themselves, should be enough to tell any enlightened person that there must exist OTHER gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the god OF them. They should tell us that there must be other LESS HIGH gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the MOST HIGH god.)
But let me hear your own definition, 2B. Also Marty, Kerwin, Abe, Gene, and anyone else who is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
What is YOUR definition of the Biblical words we translate as “god”?
Mike,
For US there is ONE God.Mike and T,
Look at it this way:
If you had a wife who you loved with all of your heart and breath, although there are many wives out there in the world , to YOU, in your mind and heart there is only one wife.Hi Mike:
You ask:
Quote Okay. So tell me HOW you would obey your earthly lords like Paul directed when you insist that Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord? Please explain. Like this:
Quote Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; And even if it is as you say that the KJV should have used “through”, as “all things were created throughhim and for him, it would be as follows:
Quote Number 1223
Transliteration:
dia {dee-ah'}
Word Origin:
a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
TDNT:
2:65,149
Part of Speech:
prep
Usage in the KJV:
by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore 5124 44, for this cause 5124 14, because 53, misc 86Total: 647
Definition:
1.through
A.of place
a.with
b.in
B.of time
a.throughout
b.during
C.of means
a.by
b.by the means of
2.through
A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
a.by reason of
b.on account of
c.because of for this reason
d.therefore
e.on this account
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old Testament2.through
A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
a.by reason ofLove in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,08:05) Marty, how is posting scriptures that clearly say all things WERE made through Jesus supposed to convince anyone that those things WEREN'T made through him? I don't get it.
Ha, classic. But that is what it has come to.Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2013,10:30) Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,15:46) Quote (2besee @ May 29 2013,20:14) Mike it doesn't matter if it says “so called gods” or “those called gods” because Paul goes on to say that EVEN IF THERE ARE….for US there is… One God, just as Jesus said.
Actually 2B,Paul went on to say, “as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”.
Now, do you agree with Paul that there truly ARE many lords? YES or NO?
Hi Mike.
Yes………The lords may be real people whom have that title, but the gods are made into gods by mans imagination, IMO.
So why do you have a double standard, 2B? If you can understand that there are indeed many lords, and that those lords are real persons, why don't you understand “gods” the same way?Quote (2besee @ May 31 2013,23:23) Yet for us, there is only one God who is TRUE, and in our minds there is only one whom we call lord as Jesus is our lord.
And this, my friend, is what I'm after. I want to point out to all of you that this confusion all boils down to the way you've been TAUGHT by men to understand the word “god”.It is clear that ALL of you understand that there DO exist other lords – even for us. Jehovah is our Lord, and some of us also have other earthly lords. So you can all understand that when Paul says, “for us, there is but ONE Lord, Jesus Christ”, we can't possibly take that statement LITERALLY – as if Jehovah is NOT also our Lord. And we therefore also know that when Paul says, “as indeed there are many lords”, we CAN take it LITERALLY – because there ARE indeed many lords.
So we have to get to the bottom of your double standard, ie: Why you guys are able to understand the above clearly enough, but refuse to understand the same exact thing when the word “god” is used instead of the word “lord”.
So tell me, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, what the word “god” means – IN BIBLICAL TERMINOLOGY. In other words, search the scriptures for the words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos”, and USING THOSE VERY SCRIPTURES, come up with a definition of what THEY understood those words to mean.
My definition is: “a mighty one”.
I understand that there are indeed many “mighty ones” (gods), as Paul himself said, and that there is only ONE mighty one who created all things. That ONE is the “god OF all the other gods”, and the “MOST HIGH god”. (Those last two titles of Jehovah, in and of themselves, should be enough to tell any enlightened person that there must exist OTHER gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the god OF them. They should tell us that there must be other LESS HIGH gods – or Jehovah couldn't be the MOST HIGH god.)
But let me hear your own definition, 2B. Also Marty, Kerwin, Abe, Gene, and anyone else who is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
What is YOUR definition of the Biblical words we translate as “god”?
Hi Mike,(Quote)
What is YOUR definition of the Biblical words we translate as “god”?1Cor.8:5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is [but] one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we [exist] for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we [exist] through Him.
6yet for us (Christians) there is [but] one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we [exist] for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we [exist] through Him.
(Quote)
My definition is: “a mighty one”.Sorry, I don't see “a mighty one”.
Peace.
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,12:25) Mike,
For US there is ONE God.
And for us there is one God the Father.
Is that true for you?Quote (t8 @ June 04 2013,12:05) Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,12:25) Mike,
For US there is ONE God.
And for us there is one God the Father.
Is that true for you?
Yes, the Father.Quote (t8 @ June 04 2013,11:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 03 2013,08:05) Marty, how is posting scriptures that clearly say all things WERE made through Jesus supposed to convince anyone that those things WEREN'T made through him? I don't get it.
Ha, classic. But that is what it has come to.The word used for God's position is “ex” which means “from, or out of”.
http://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/8-6.htm
The word used for Jesus' position is “dia” which means “on account of OR through or because of.
“on account of/because of” fits in with ALL of the scriptures as as whole.
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,04:36) Mike and T,
Look at it this way:
If you had a wife who you loved with all of your heart and breath, although there are many wives out there in the world , to YOU, in your mind and heart there is only one wife.
2beethis is true .but I will not deny that their are no other women or wives like you do about gods
T,
I don't DENY there are other so called gods but for me there IS only ONE GOD.Abe gets what i mean!
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,06:00) T,
I don't DENY there are other so called gods but for me there IS only ONE GOD.Abe gets what i mean!
2beeWhat you say now ,is what we try to tell you for the past 3 months ,
Read your comments back and see,
T,
taken in context, Paul is speaking about food sacrificed to idols, 1 Corinthians 8:14,
He says that the idols are nothing, and that there is no God..but..one.So even if there are so called gods (idols?), to us.. there is..but ONE God, the Father.
“Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods–do not let them be heard on your lips.
Exodus 23:13Do not let them be heard on your lips.
Quote (2besee @ June 04 2013,07:31) T, taken in context, Paul is speaking about food sacrificed to idols, 1 Corinthians 8:14,
He says that the idols are nothing, and that there is no God..but..one.So even if there are so called gods (idols?), to us.. there is..but ONE God, the Father.
“Pay attention to do everything I have told you, and do not even mention the names of other gods–do not let them be heard on your lips.
Exodus 23:13Do not let them be heard on your lips.
2beeDid you went into the time of Paul went the people worship idoles and give food and other gifts to them
Did you really understand what Paul try to convey
Do you know wen Paul went to Athena ,and saw all the Gods they honored their,
Do you know what happen there
Also,wen you say the words of Paul, about that their is only one God for you ,then why are you not believing his words,without add or retract any words
Quote (942767 @ June 03 2013,16:42) Hi Mike: You ask:
Quote Okay. So tell me HOW you would obey your earthly lords like Paul directed when you insist that Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord? Please explain. Like this:
Quote Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
But in order to do that, you would first have to recognize that other person AS one of your “lords”, right? And that would mean that Jesus is not LITERALLY your ONLY lord, right?Quote (942767 @ June 03 2013,16:42) And even if it is as you say that the KJV should have used “through”, as “all things were created throughhim and for him, it would be as follows: 2.through
A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
a.by reason of
Or it could just mean “through”, right? Just as God created all of your children “through” you, right?After all, “through” is the first and most used definition of the word, right? Why search to the bottom of the list to find some rarely used definition, Marty? Seems a little biased to me.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
