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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,05:56) Marty? Abe?
Good morning Mike:If you worship Satan as “god” then to you “he is a god” or if you worship anyone, including Jesus, or anything as “god” then to you that person or thing is “a god”, but if you do, that is termed “idolatry”.
According to Jesus:
Quote Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. And according the Apostle Paul:
Quote 1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 1Cr 8:6 But to us(that is, “us” who are born again Christians) [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,16:33) Abe, Please address my points.
Is Jesus literally our ONLY Lord?
Can you see that the same “all things” that came FROM God also came THROUGH Jesus Christ?
Hi Mike,1Cor.8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by(through) whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Peace brother………………………………
Yes Abe,
The better translation is “through”, not “by”.
My questions are as follows:
1. Is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence? Is he LITERALLY our ONLY lord? Or is his Father Jehovah also our Lord?
2. Doesn't it stand to reason that the all things that came FROM the Father are the same exact all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ?
(Meaning that if the universe is one of the all things that came FROM the Father, then the universe is one of the all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ, right?)
Marty,
The above questions to Abe are also to you now, since you are now also using 1 Cor 8 as support for your understanding.
And Marty,
I need to know if you understand the following things:
1. The word “god” – as translated from “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” – does NOT mean: Almighty Creator of All Things. Do you understand this?
2. The word “god” – as translated from “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” – DOES mean: “mighty one”, period. Do you understand this?
3. So when angels and judges are called “gods”, they are being called “mighty ones” – which they truly are. Do you understand this?
4. And when Jehovah is called “god”, He is being called a “mighty one” – which He truly is. Do you understand this?
5. And the fact that angels and judges are called “mighty ones” does NOT put them on an equal footing with the only Almighty One, who is the “mighty one” OF all the other “mighty ones”. (This is what it means when Jehovah is called “the God OF gods”, Marty. It does NOT mean Jehovah is the ONLY god, but that He is the mightiest OF all the other “mighty ones”. Do you understand this?
6. Therefore, when Jehovah says there is no “mighty one” besides Him, it is an EMPHATICAL statement. He is NOT saying that He is LITERALLY the ONLY mighty one in existence, since He has created MANY mighty ones, and has Himself called them such. Instead, it is a way of emphasizing that He alone is the Mightiest OF all the mighty ones. (Similar to Paul saying Jesus is our ONLY lord – when we know he also told us to obey our EARTHLY lords as we would obey Jesus.) Do you understand this?
7. So when an angel is called a god (“mighty one”), it does not mean that angel is a FALSE “mighty one”. But it also doesn't equate that angel with the ONE and ONLY Almighty one either. Do you understand this?
If you have the ability to understand all of the above facts, then I only have one question for you:
Is Jesus, as the second most powerful being in existence, a “mighty one” – or not?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,09:04) Yes Abe, The better translation is “through”, not “by”.
My questions are as follows:
1. Is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence? Is he LITERALLY our ONLY lord? Or is his Father Jehovah also our Lord?
2. Doesn't it stand to reason that the all things that came FROM the Father are the same exact all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ?
(Meaning that if the universe is one of the all things that came FROM the Father, then the universe is one of the all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ, right?)
Hi Mike,The Beginning
(John 1:1-5)1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first dayWhere is Lord God? Lord?
Peace brother…
Hi Mike:
I have answered your question relative to whether or not Jesus is “a god”, and that was the question that we were addressing. He is not “a god”, but he a partaker of “God's divine nature “God” in that “he is the express image of God's person”. Like he said: “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, and we also are being conformed to his image.
And what I said relative to angels was that they were in the image of god when I stated that it was the angels to whom God made reference when He said “let us make man in our image” in Genesis 1:26 and I gave Job 38 as a scripture reference. I do not believe that I said they were gods.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,10:10) Abe, Are you going to answer my questions or not?
Hi Mike,To Me there is One Lord.
1Cor.8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by(through) whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
Peace brother……………………………..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2013,04:06) Marty, The above questions to Abe are also to you now, since you are now also using 1 Cor 8 as support for your understanding.
Hi Mike:The answer is that God created all things “by him and for him” and without him was nothing made than was made”. God is the creator, and Jesus is not, and he did not pre-exist his birth into this world as some form of being.
We have already had this discussion.
And so now we know that John 1c should be translated “and the Word was God” and not “and the Word was a god”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 27 2013,12:51) Hi Mike: I have answered your question relative to whether or not Jesus is “a god”, and that was the question that we were addressing. He is not “a god”, but he a partaker of “God's divine nature “God” in that “he is the express image of God's person”. Like he said: “he who has seen me has seen the Father”, and we also are being conformed to his image.
And what I said relative to angels was that they were in the image of god when I stated that it was the angels to whom God made reference when He said “let us make man in our image” in Genesis 1:26 and I gave Job 38 as a scripture reference. I do not believe that I said they were gods.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,It really doesn't matter in the least whether or not YOU personally ever said Jesus or angels were gods. It only matters what the SCRIPTURES say about it, right?
Please address the following:
1. Do you understand that the scriptural words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” – as they are used in SCRIPTURE – all mean “mighty one”? YES or NO?
2. Do you understand that the scriptural words “el”, “elohim”, and “theos” – as they are used in SCRIPTURE – do NOT mean “Almighty Creator of All Things”? YES or NO?
Quote (abe @ May 27 2013,12:54) Hi Mike, To Me there is One Lord.
And who is that Lord, Abe? Jesus? Jehovah? Or one of the many earthly lords that Paul told us to treat with as much respect as we treat Jesus?Quote (942767 @ May 27 2013,13:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2013,04:06) Marty, The above questions to Abe are also to you now, since you are now also using 1 Cor 8 as support for your understanding.
Hi Mike:The answer is that God created all things “by him and for him” and without him was nothing made than was made”. God is the creator, and Jesus is not, and he did not pre-exist his birth into this world as some form of being.
We have already had this discussion.
And so now we know that John 1c should be translated “and the Word was God” and not “and the Word was a god”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Perhaps you misunderstood the questions, Marty. Here they are again:1. Is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord you have? YES or NO?
2. Is it logical that, in 1 Cor 8:6, the all things that came FROM God are the same exact all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ? If not, then WHY not?
Please DIRECTLY address the questions this time.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,16:58) Quote (abe @ May 27 2013,12:54) Hi Mike, To Me there is One Lord.
And who is that Lord, Abe? Jesus? Jehovah? Or one of the many earthly lords that Paul told us to treat with as much respect as we treat Jesus?
Hi Mike,Php.2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; 11And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
and given him a NAME which is ABOVE every NAME:
Acts2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
Acts2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has MADE Him both Lord and Christ– this Jesus whom you crucified.”
God has MADE Him both Lord and Christ
Peace brother….
So then Jehovah is NOT your Lord, Abe?
Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.So if the Lamb is literally your ONLY lord, then you cannot accept “the Lord God Almighty” as your lord? Is that what you're saying, Abe?
Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly lords with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.And since Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord, you would not be able to follow Paul's command either, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2013,19:03) Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly lords with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.And since Jesus is LITERALLY your ONLY lord, you would not be able to follow Paul's command either, right?
Hi Mike,1Cor.8:5 For although there may be SO-CALLED gods in heaven or on earth—as INDEED there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6yet for us there is ONE God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Your in denial AGAIN.
Peace brother…..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2013,19:01) So then Jehovah is NOT your Lord, Abe? Revelation 21:22
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.So if the Lamb is literally your ONLY lord, then you cannot accept “the Lord God Almighty” as your lord? Is that what you're saying, Abe?
Hi Mike,Hos.2:16 And it shall be at that day, says the LORD, that you shall call me Ishi; and shall call me no more Baali.
17For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will abolish the bow and the sword and the battle from the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19And I will BETROTH you unto me forever; yea, I will BETROTH you unto me in righteousness, and in justice, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20I will even BETROTH you unto me in faithfulness: and you shall know the LORD.
21And it shall come to pass in that day, I will answer, says the LORD, I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth;
22And the earth shall answer with grain, and wine, and oil; and they shall answer Jezreel.
23And I will sow her for myself in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them who were not my people, you are my people; and they shall say, you are my God.Is.54:4 Fear not; for thou (Jerusalem) shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5For thy MAKER [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Jer.3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the NAME of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Peace brother………………………………………………
Quote (abe @ May 27 2013,10:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2013,09:04) Yes Abe, The better translation is “through”, not “by”.
My questions are as follows:
1. Is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence? Is he LITERALLY our ONLY lord? Or is his Father Jehovah also our Lord?
2. Doesn't it stand to reason that the all things that came FROM the Father are the same exact all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ?
(Meaning that if the universe is one of the all things that came FROM the Father, then the universe is one of the all things that came THROUGH Jesus Christ, right?)
Hi Mike,The Beginning
(John 1:1-5)1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first dayWhere is Lord God? Lord?
Peace brother…
Hi Mike,Please answer my Question.
Peace brother.
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