Islam

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,02:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (princess @ July 31 2011,02:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:32) Quote So now your wisdom supercedes the wisdom of God? Your god, pretty much BD. Quote Where have you ever read that we should never suffer or die in this lifetime? where is it written that you should deny one of food and water. Quote How is it hell or heaven be decided except for the judgement of individuals being exposed through life experience and actions? What does this have to do with a young child BD, absolutely nothing. How are you blaming evil on God? Which god are your referring to BD?

You can't have it both ways princess whatever you like or dislike if you believe in any God then you would also have to conclude that God is aware of these “Catastrophic or devastating” situations so it is not a matter of “which” God is it?

You don't understand why “God” allows babies to starve or thirst to death but instead of just saying you don't understand you seem to arrive at the conclusion that you are morally superior to God it's actually an odd outlook.

It's like STU believing that God (or the belief in God)is causing suffering which makes no sense because if God does not exist he could not be responsible at all in suffering nor be responsible for what people believe and hence any discussion about God from an atheist always has to ironically assume God does exist

[mikeboll64]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,18:40)

Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path.

Brilliant!

[princess]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:47)

Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,02:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (princess @ July 31 2011,02:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:32) Quote So now your wisdom supercedes the wisdom of God? Your god, pretty much BD. Quote Where have you ever read that we should never suffer or die in this lifetime? where is it written that you should deny one of food and water. Quote How is it hell or heaven be decided except for the judgement of individuals being exposed through life experience and actions? What does this have to do with a young child BD, absolutely nothing. How are you blaming evil on God? Which god are your referring to BD? You can't have it both ways princess whatever you like or dislike if you believe in any God then you would also have to conclude that God is aware of these “Catastrophic or devastating” situations so it is not a matter of “which” God is it? You don't understand why “God” allows babies to starve or thirst to death but instead of just saying you don't understand you seem to arrive at the conclusion that you are morally superior to God it's actually an odd outlook. It's like STU believing that God (or the belief in God)is causing suffering which makes no sense because if God does not exist he could not be responsible at all in suffering nor be responsible for what people believe and hence any discussion about God from an atheist always has to ironically assume God does exist

I had already said I don't understand, understood?

Superiority, has its place, as does morality. Placing them both together to place me beneath your god, is not going to work BD, try another tatic.

natural disasters are 'natural', one cannot build on a fault line, and then wonder why there is an earthquake, then there is the factor of  human error, the earth will do the same today as it did years ago, I do not see what god has to do with the running of the earth, tis in its place, and we go on.

however, when mankind quits taking care of mankind due to a belief in god, then perhaps one should take notice to the god one is serving.

and never ever tell a princess she cannot have what she wants, tends to send one to the gallows with chanting OFF WITH HIS HEAD !!!!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,13:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:47) Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,02:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (princess @ July 31 2011,02:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:32) Quote So now your wisdom supercedes the wisdom of God? Your god, pretty much BD. Quote Where have you ever read that we should never suffer or die in this lifetime? where is it written that you should deny one of food and water. Quote How is it hell or heaven be decided except for the judgement of individuals being exposed through life experience and actions? What does this have to do with a young child BD, absolutely nothing. How are you blaming evil on God? Which god are your referring to BD? You can't have it both ways princess whatever you like or dislike if you believe in any God then you would also have to conclude that God is aware of these “Catastrophic or devastating” situations so it is not a matter of “which” God is it? You don't understand why “God” allows babies to starve or thirst to death but instead of just saying you don't understand you seem to arrive at the conclusion that you are morally superior to God it's actually an odd outlook. It's like STU believing that God (or the belief in God)is causing suffering which makes no sense because if God does not exist he could not be responsible at all in suffering nor be responsible for what people believe and hence any discussion about God from an atheist always has to ironically assume God does exist I had already said I don't understand, understood? Superiority, has its place, as does morality. Placing them both together to place me beneath your god, is not going to work BD, try another tatic. natural disasters are 'natural', one cannot build on a fault line, and then wonder why there is an earthquake, then there is the factor of  human error, the earth will do the same today as it did years ago, I do not see what god has to do with the running of the earth, tis in its place, and we go on. however, when mankind quits taking care of mankind due to a belief in god, then perhaps one should take notice to the god one is serving. and never ever tell a princess she cannot have what she wants, tends to send one to the gallows with chanting OFF WITH HIS HEAD !!!!

When mankind quits taking care of mankind like what Cain did to Abel?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,12:04)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,18:40) Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path. Brilliant!

Thanks!

[princess]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 02 2011,08:44)

Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,13:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:47) Quote (princess @ Aug. 01 2011,02:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (princess @ July 31 2011,02:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:32) Quote So now your wisdom supercedes the wisdom of God? Your god, pretty much BD. Quote Where have you ever read that we should never suffer or die in this lifetime? where is it written that you should deny one of food and water. Quote How is it hell or heaven be decided except for the judgement of individuals being exposed through life experience and actions? What does this have to do with a young child BD, absolutely nothing. How are you blaming evil on God? Which god are your referring to BD? You can't have it both ways princess whatever you like or dislike if you believe in any God then you would also have to conclude that God is aware of these “Catastrophic or devastating” situations so it is not a matter of “which” God is it? You don't understand why “God” allows babies to starve or thirst to death but instead of just saying you don't understand you seem to arrive at the conclusion that you are morally superior to God it's actually an odd outlook. It's like STU believing that God (or the belief in God)is causing suffering which makes no sense because if God does not exist he could not be responsible at all in suffering nor be responsible for what people believe and hence any discussion about God from an atheist always has to ironically assume God does exist I had already said I don't understand, understood? Superiority, has its place, as does morality. Placing them both together to place me beneath your god, is not going to work BD, try another tatic. natural disasters are 'natural', one cannot build on a fault line, and then wonder why there is an earthquake, then there is the factor of  human error, the earth will do the same today as it did years ago, I do not see what god has to do with the running of the earth, tis in its place, and we go on. however, when mankind quits taking care of mankind due to a belief in god, then perhaps one should take notice to the god one is serving. and never ever tell a princess she cannot have what she wants, tends to send one to the gallows with chanting OFF WITH HIS HEAD !!!! When mankind quits taking care of mankind like what Cain did to Abel?

tis no longer the time of cain and abel is it?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,12:37)

Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2011,13:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:27) Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2011,02:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,06:48) Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2011,05:02) Hi BD, The 'book of fraud' is not Appropriate and disrespectful. Ĕl-äh-ä is how you say “God” in Aramaic. Psalms 45:17 I will make thy name (יהוה) YÄ-hä-vā) to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever. Perhaps you need to go teach muslims what God's name is; aye? Ed J Aren't languages different? So when did Jesus say YHVH? Can you show me the scripture? Hi BD, I(Jesus) have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (John 17:6) John 17:26 And I(Jesus) have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Ed J Where in that staement do you find YHVH? Don't you think that being Jews already they knew of the Tetragrammaton ? Hi BD, Are you saying the verse (according to BD) is wrong? You yourself admitted YHVH is God's name, and these verses says his name is revealed to believers. Do you deny this? Ed J No you misunderstand what the point is, I am saying that the verse itself does not use the name. Jesus is never quoted in the Bible as saying YHVH, even in the bible context of Jesus being on the Cross he say “My God, My God”. The Original Hebrew translation for 'O God, O God why have you forsaken me' is 'Elai, Elai, lama sabachthani'. The word 'Elai' exactly means 'Allah' in Arabic. There is no New Testament verse that contains YHVH but you use this name casually Hi BD, Are you trying to dismiss yourself from your teaching responsibility to teach muslims what God's Name really is? Ed J And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exodus 6:2-4 Notice that even though these others did not know God by the name of Jehovah/YHVH He was still their God so it is easy to understand that the world knew God first and foremost as The GOD i.e. Allah as in The God (Allah) of Abraham

Hi BD,

Are you trying to dodge my question?   …please answer my question?

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 02 2011,09:21)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,12:37) Quote (Ed J @ July 31 2011,10:22) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,09:40) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2011,13:57) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:27) Quote (Ed J @ July 29 2011,02:11) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2011,06:48) Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2011,05:02) Hi BD, The 'book of fraud' is not Appropriate and disrespectful. Ĕl-äh-ä is how you say “God” in Aramaic. Psalms 45:17 I will make thy name (יהוה) YÄ-hä-vā) to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever. Perhaps you need to go teach muslims what God's name is; aye? Ed J Aren't languages different? So when did Jesus say YHVH? Can you show me the scripture? Hi BD, I(Jesus) have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (John 17:6) John 17:26 And I(Jesus) have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Ed J Where in that staement do you find YHVH? Don't you think that being Jews already they knew of the Tetragrammaton ? Hi BD, Are you saying the verse (according to BD) is wrong? You yourself admitted YHVH is God's name, and these verses says his name is revealed to believers. Do you deny this? Ed J No you misunderstand what the point is, I am saying that the verse itself does not use the name. Jesus is never quoted in the Bible as saying YHVH, even in the bible context of Jesus being on the Cross he say “My God, My God”. The Original Hebrew translation for 'O God, O God why have you forsaken me' is 'Elai, Elai, lama sabachthani'. The word 'Elai' exactly means 'Allah' in Arabic. There is no New Testament verse that contains YHVH but you use this name casually Hi BD, Are you trying to dismiss yourself from your teaching responsibility to teach muslims what God's Name really is? Ed J And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exodus 6:2-4 Notice that even though these others did not know God by the name of Jehovah/YHVH He was still their God so it is easy to understand that the world knew God first and foremost as The GOD i.e. Allah as in The God (Allah) of Abraham Hi BD, Are you trying to dodge my question?   …please answer my question? Ed J

you still haven't shown me where Jesus used it. Notice Jesus said to pray “our Father” this is what he taught his disciples, show me where he is either talking to God or about God using YHVH.

[bodhitharta]

Meaning of YHVH/YHWH (Yahweh/Jehovah)

As it was made apparent that we do not know how to pronounce the word “YHVH”/ “YHWH”, we must now look and understand what this word means so as to get an understanding of the word itself. The Jewish Encyclopedia informs us that the meaning of the name “YHWH”/YHVH is “‘He who is self-existing, self-sufficient’, or, more concretely, ‘He who lives’” [emphasis added]. Hence in simplest of terms “YHVH”/ “YHWH” means The Living and Self-Subsisting.

Muhammad was taught this true essense of The One and Only God by Gabriel

“Allah! There is no god but He – the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory).”
[Surah al-Baqarah 2: 255]

Jesus as we know would be referred to as what?

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

[bodhitharta]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/radio-jihad/2011/08/05/america-akbar#.TjtQH6bJ5iU.email

God Bless!

Bodhitharta is on this program after about 22 minutes

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:40)

Quote (Stu @ July 31 2011,14:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:20) religions are only enacted upon by religious people hence killing all religious people equals the end of religion and don't you want to put an end to religion? You see my point? Perhaps yo shouldn't argue for the elimination of religion because you might cause someone to murder. The real question is why do you even argue against religion at all? If you are correct and God doesn't exist then humans would still be following a natural drive to believe in God otherwise it would not occur. I am not a muslim, so my thinking is not like those Somali terrorists who will allow people to die to promote their ideology, or the other muslims terrorists who kill people because the koran gives them permission.  Your suggestion would be so trivially wrong to anyone who has come to know the nature of my posts here.  Obviously I believe that religious belief is based upon ignorance and a lack of consideration of the universe and our place in it.  That is solved by learning, not by killing. I agree that belief in gods is a “natural” thing, it is almost certainly an adaptation that improved the survival chances of people living in ancient tribal communities.  It has been the overcoming of religious hegemony in the past few centuries that has allowed us to improve our lot as a species in so many respects, and now that we are a global community rather than tribal, religion is downright dangerous.  Obviously the most dangerous one is islam where you have the violence of Mo's violently conquering tribe and made-up abd conflicting excuses for atrocity written down as holy writ, but played out on a global scale, not just on the scale of one geographical region. Stuart Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path. It is fire that tempers steel

I did discuss this in my post. But don't worry about responding to what I posted, will you.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,12:04)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 31 2011,18:40) Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path. Brilliant!

What do you think was most brilliant about it, Mike?

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 05 2011,19:26)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:40) Quote (Stu @ July 31 2011,14:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:20) religions are only enacted upon by religious people hence killing all religious people equals the end of religion and don't you want to put an end to religion? You see my point? Perhaps yo shouldn't argue for the elimination of religion because you might cause someone to murder. The real question is why do you even argue against religion at all? If you are correct and God doesn't exist then humans would still be following a natural drive to believe in God otherwise it would not occur. I am not a muslim, so my thinking is not like those Somali terrorists who will allow people to die to promote their ideology, or the other muslims terrorists who kill people because the koran gives them permission.  Your suggestion would be so trivially wrong to anyone who has come to know the nature of my posts here.  Obviously I believe that religious belief is based upon ignorance and a lack of consideration of the universe and our place in it.  That is solved by learning, not by killing. I agree that belief in gods is a “natural” thing, it is almost certainly an adaptation that improved the survival chances of people living in ancient tribal communities.  It has been the overcoming of religious hegemony in the past few centuries that has allowed us to improve our lot as a species in so many respects, and now that we are a global community rather than tribal, religion is downright dangerous.  Obviously the most dangerous one is islam where you have the violence of Mo's violently conquering tribe and made-up abd conflicting excuses for atrocity written down as holy writ, but played out on a global scale, not just on the scale of one geographical region. Stuart Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path. It is fire that tempers steel I did discuss this in my post.  But don't worry about responding to what I posted, will you. Stuart

Sio is it your assumption that violence is not a natural state? You see anywhere you go with your argument it will always end up as arbitrary reasoning.

You are essentially saying you simply don't see why life is the way it is and then you are choosing to scapegoat religion which is the irony because if what you say about religion not being true is correct then your using it as a scapegoat in a most irrational way.

[shimmer]

Bod, you didn't answer my question a few pages back. I can't remember what it was now.

Have you ever heard of the Quakers (The Society of Friends) and what do you think of them?

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 08 2011,14:35)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 05 2011,19:26) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2011,11:40) Quote (Stu @ July 31 2011,14:43) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 30 2011,13:20) religions are only enacted upon by religious people hence killing all religious people equals the end of religion and don't you want to put an end to religion? You see my point? Perhaps yo shouldn't argue for the elimination of religion because you might cause someone to murder. The real question is why do you even argue against religion at all? If you are correct and God doesn't exist then humans would still be following a natural drive to believe in God otherwise it would not occur. I am not a muslim, so my thinking is not like those Somali terrorists who will allow people to die to promote their ideology, or the other muslims terrorists who kill people because the koran gives them permission.  Your suggestion would be so trivially wrong to anyone who has come to know the nature of my posts here.  Obviously I believe that religious belief is based upon ignorance and a lack of consideration of the universe and our place in it.  That is solved by learning, not by killing. I agree that belief in gods is a “natural” thing, it is almost certainly an adaptation that improved the survival chances of people living in ancient tribal communities.  It has been the overcoming of religious hegemony in the past few centuries that has allowed us to improve our lot as a species in so many respects, and now that we are a global community rather than tribal, religion is downright dangerous.  Obviously the most dangerous one is islam where you have the violence of Mo's violently conquering tribe and made-up abd conflicting excuses for atrocity written down as holy writ, but played out on a global scale, not just on the scale of one geographical region. Stuart Again, if this is a natural evolution then the inevitable conclusion would also be natural. You see STU if you don't belive in God then you should accept the fact that this function of belief as disturbing as it may be to you is serving its natural purpose and being that would be the case, how can you declare that what you don't like about it is not the correct evolutionary path. It is fire that tempers steel I did discuss this in my post.  But don't worry about responding to what I posted, will you. Stuart Sio is it your assumption that violence is not a natural state? You see anywhere you go with your argument it will always end up as arbitrary reasoning. You are essentially saying you simply don't see why life is the way it is and then you are choosing to scapegoat religion which is the irony because if what you say about religion not being true is correct then your using it as a scapegoat in a most irrational way.

What is a “natural state”?

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 08 2011,14:58)

Bod, you didn't answer my question a few pages back. I can't remember what it was now. Have you ever heard of the Quakers (The Society of Friends) and what do you think of them?

I like them

[shimmer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 09 2011,03:37)

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 08 2011,14:58) Bod, you didn't answer my question a few pages back. I can't remember what it was now. Have you ever heard of the Quakers (The Society of Friends) and what do you think of them? I like them

Have you ever known any personally, and if you did what were they like?

[shimmer]

Bod, no need to answer that. Stupid question! Hope you and your Family are well, take care Bod.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 10 2011,08:58)

Bod, no need to answer that. Stupid question! Hope you and your Family are well, take care Bod.

Thanks, You take care too

God bless your family

[Stu]

More from the religion of flying planes into buildings, er, I mean peace:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world….contest

Stuart

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