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I don’t have time for word games, (or your pretense at open-mindedness) really, your tactics betray you…as they have from the start – ‘using’ Scripture, and the truth of Scripture (that Jesus is the Son of God) to peddle your anti-trinity deceit…
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Let go of your ‘Age-of-Reason’ philosophies and come back to your first-love – Christ…the pure Word of God.In other words, you do not understand that which you teach and I caught you out. Let your yes be yes and no be no, everything else is from the evil one. If you are not being straight up, then you are being deceitful. Just admit you don’t know. It takes a good and honest man to admit when he is doesn’t know the answer to something.
I know you’d like to think you caught me out, and I hate to burst your bubble but really you have just revealed the motive behind all your pretension…
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if you want to learn the meaning of names – it’s pretty basic, do a little research yourself – you have the world’s resources at your fingertips…I just don’t have the time or patience for such childish debating, (especially when Scripture says not to strive over words to no profit)…
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If you want to know why ‘Eli’ means (or doesn’t mean) My God…(and you think it’s relevant to your argument) then the information is all there waiting for you – enjoy..! (It might be quite a revelation for you)..!
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But I know your tricks – how you misdirect attention away from the truth when it gets too uncomfortable for you (accept this time I think you caught yourself out)…!Jesus is depicted throughout Scripture as ‘God’…but those who have a problem with the term ‘TRINITY’ feel they must change these verses and therefore alter the meaning so as to fit their anti-trinity teachings…
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The alternative explanation given here is another example of the deception afoot to mislead believers with uninspired arguments and logical reasoning…rendering to us an idea that is so obviously man-made (probably borrowed from the Jehovah’s Witnesses)..and that basically downplays the significance of the Divine names and titles ascribed to Messiah..
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The argument here is that the names “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father” (“Prince of Peace”) given to Yeshua are really no more significant than the names “Elijah”, “Isaiah”, or any other Biblical name that refers to God in it’s meaning – which, to say the least, is a rather disappointing response to the majestic nature of Isaiah’s prophetic utterance..
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yet if we take a quick glance at the other names of Messiah we will immediately and easily see just how significant and incredibly relevant each title truly is:
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JESUS: Savior – “because He will save His people from their sins.” Matthew 1:21
LORD: Master – “But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ..” Matthew 23:8
SON OF DAVID: Descendant of David – “The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” Matthew 1:1
CHRIST: Anointed One – “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me..” Luke 4:19
EMMANUEL: God With Us – “Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, before there was an Abraham, I AM!” John 8:58
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So we clearly see from the Word that each and every name Given to the Son is directly and powerfully connected to every last detail of His work and identity…He is LITERALLY the Savior, He was LITERALLY anointed, He was LITERALLY God in the flesh – Mighty God…who manifested the fullness of the Everlasting Father in Himself (Col. 2:9)..
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I know because of the stance you have taken concerning the doctrine of the Trinity that you have locked yourself into a position of continual denial regarding the true Deity of Christ…but I offer defense of what I believe is the true faith and teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ, that those who are searching may at least have some genuine counterbalance to compare your teaching with.I find it interesting how you believe in a trinity that says that Christ is not the Father or the Holy Spirit yet they all consist of one God in different persons, yet in Isaiah it says
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
So if you are only looking at this one text and you claim that Everlasting Father is a name for the Son then you are saying that the Father IS the Son IS the Holy Spirit and that they aren’t a trinity at all, but that God shows himself in modes consisting in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We both agree that’s wrong but this shows your biases. This is a perfect example how one cannot take a single verse out of context of the entire scripture. You say that we explain away scripture that says Christ is God and twist scripture, yet when Paul says that there is only one God, THE FATHER, and one Lord, Jesus Christ” 1 Cor 8:5-6 or when Christ says “the Father is greater than I” you do the same. You hear what Christ says and then tell Christ he didn’t mean what he said. Instead you tell Christ what he meant to say… that seems like a poor choice to me. We are simply putting scripture together without the preconceived ideas Satan has given the worldly church. You are nothing more than a hypocrite pointing fingers and casting doubt to snatch the weak. The difference is that we are grounded in Christ’s words first, God inspired scripture and you’re grounded in your fantasies.
“And upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Matt 16:18 The true church has remained even to this day, despite the worldly churches attempts to destroy it.
May God bring peace to your heart and may He lead you to the truth.
Eli =
Jah =Simple. Answer the question. It is easier than making accusations and trying to get people to believe them. The truth has a way of ending a debate. Now is your chance. Fill in the gaps please.
so, back to your semantics…
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“Biblical Meaning:
The name Eli is a Biblical baby name. In Biblical the meaning of the name Eli is: The offering or lifting up. My God; my God.Hebrew Meaning:
The name Eli is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Eli is: High, ascended, or ‘my God’. Famous bearer: The Old Testament priest Eli cared for the prophet Samuel when Samuel was a child.”
http://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/eli
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“The given name Eli has several origins. All masculine names are derived from Hebrew:with spelling עֵלִי, a reference to Eli, the high priest in the Books of Samuel. Traditional English-speaking Christian uses of the name are generally based on this Eli. The usual pronunciation is /ˈiːlaɪ/.[1]
with spelling אלי, an abbreviation of Elijah, Elisha, Eliezer, Elhanan or Elimelech.
with spelling אלי, an independent Hebrew name meaning “My God.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_(name)
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“From the Hebrew name אֱלִיָּהוּ (‘Eliyyahu) meaning “my God is YAHWEH”.
https://www.google.co.nz/#q=eli+etymology+name
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“Eli, Heb. eli, “my God”, ( Matthew 27:46 ), an exclamation used by Christ on the cross. ( Mark 15:34 ), as usual, gives the original Aramaic form of the word, Eloi.”
http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/eli/
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Nothing much else – try other names with ‘Eli’:
Elisheba – In Hebrew names, Eli means “my God” and Sheba means “oath”, so Eli-sheba is oath of my God or “God is her oath”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisheba
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“EL – From a Semitic word meaning “god”, perhaps originally derived from a root meaning “power”. This was the name of the chief Semitic god, the father of the gods and mankind. In some cases it was used as a title and applied to other gods of the pantheon. It was used by the Hebrews to refer to Yahweh.”
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ELDAD – Means “God has loved” in Hebrew.
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ELEAZAR – From the Hebrew name אֶלְעָזָר (‘El’azar) meaning “my God has helped”
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ELI (1) – Means “ascension” in Hebrew.
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ELI (2) – Means “my God” in Hebrew.
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ELIAKIM – Means “God rises” in Hebrew (another source says: Eli’akim means ‘my God will raise up’, ‘the resurrection of the Lord’, ‘my God, he shall arise’, or ‘raised up by God’, and this clearly speaks of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus from the dead. Hilkiah means, ‘the Lord my portion’.)
http://understanding-ministries.co.uk/eliakim-a-type-of-the-lord-jesus-christ.html
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ELIANA – Means “my God has answered” in Hebrew.
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ELIEZER – From Hebrew אֱלִיעֶזֶר (‘Eli’ezer) meaning “my God is help”
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ELIHU – Means “my God is YAHWEH” in Hebrew
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ELIJAH – From the Hebrew name אֱלִיָּהוּ (‘Eliyyahu) meaning “my God is YAHWEH
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ELIOR – Means “my God is my light” in Hebrew.
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ELIPHELET – Means “God is release” in Hebrew (Again other sites say: The meaning of Eliphalet is “my G-d is deliverance”)
http://www.ourbabynamer.com/meaning-of-Eliphalet.html
http://www.ask.com/question/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-name-eliphalet
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Couple more:
ELISHA – From the Hebrew name אֱלִישַׁע (‘Elisha’), a contracted form of אֱלִישׁוּעַ (‘Elishu’a) meaning “my God is salvation”
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ELIZABETH – From Ελισαβετ (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name אֱלִישֶׁבַע (‘Elisheva’) meaning “my God is an oath” or perhaps “my God is abundance”
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ELKANAH – Means “God has purchased” in Hebrew
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ELNATHAN – Means “God has given” in Hebrew
http://www.behindthename.com/names/letter/e/2
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And Jah:
“Jah (/ˈdʒɑː/; Hebrew: יהּ = Yah) is the shortened form of the divine name YHWH”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jah
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Conclusion:
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El = God
Eli = My God
Jah = YHWH (Jehovah)I’m accused of believing in un-scriptural doctrine…Isaiah 9:6 says of the Son, He shall be called…”Everlasting Father” – doesn’t that perfectly confirm the NT teaching…”For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.”..???
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..or am I to believe what is taught here, that Everlasting Father is just a reference to say that Jesus is greater than Abraham…???
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Do I let Scripture interpret Scripture – or do I accept the reasoning of uninspired teachers…? (I still trust the Scriptures).Missed one – ‘Elimelech’…meaning “My God is King”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_RuthYou said:
El = God
Eli = My God
Jah = YHWH (Jehovah)
Finally a straight answer. Please continue in this fashion. It makes seeking the truth much easier. Thank you.The point remains.
If Jesus is the Almighty God because he is to be called, mighty el, then he must also be the Father himself because he is called, everlasting father.
So it is you who has a problem, not us. I am simply taking your way of seeing things and showing you that if you apply your view to to mighty god, then you need to apply the same view to everlasting Father. Thus, your view heads in the direction of Oneness Pentecostalism.
Our view is that a name doesn’t make you that which the name describes. If a native American calls his son , ‘running bull’, then you are arguing that he is literally a running bull. Hebrew names also have descriptive meaning. And in South America, many are called Jesus and in our part of the world, many are called Joshua. Are these people literally Jesus then? According to your rule that mighty el makes Jesus the Almighty Theos, then your rule says yes, they are Jesus himself because of their name.1 Chronicles 7:20-21
he sons of Ephraim were Shuthelah and Bered his son, Tahath his son, Eleadah his son, Tahath his son, Zabad his son, Shuthelah his son, and Ezer and Elead whom the men of Gath who were born in the land killed, because they came down to take their livestock.
Elead means “God Forever”. There is no el(i). Please explain how this person is not God, yet Jesus somehow is because he is called “mighty el”.
Also, here is a list of names with the word God in it. Some are associated with Jesus, others with other biblical characters. The point is that when it is applied to Jesus, the rules change for you. There is no consistency and fairness in understanding the purpose and application of a name, (in your view).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophory_in_the_Biblethe difference is so plain that it’s childish – no Biblical character has a name that defines or describes him as God…EXCEPT JESUS..!!!
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You use ‘Elead’ as an obscure example, but it’s so glaringly obvious that his name is not a name for God…!?!?!? (Elead can mean, ‘Witness of God’, ‘God has testified’ or ‘God is a Witness’)…
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your arguments are designed to generate confusion and doubt, but when we unravel them there’s nothing there – they just fall apart…!!!
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JESUS is literally defined in many places throughout Scripture as ‘God’ – Isaiah 40:3 says, “The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.”
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John reveals His pre-earthly existence as God…
Paul says He is God manifest in the flesh…
Thomas calls Him, Lord and God…
Jesus Himself declares He is the ‘I AM’…
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Let go of your ‘logical’ doctrines and let Scripture speak for itself..Again your own logic betrays you…if Christ was the manifestation of God in the flesh, why can’t He be called Everlasting Father..?
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You fight an unending dilemma with your own intellect simply because God is undefinable in human terms, and known only through REVELATION…so (like the issue of eternal hell) you end up in denial of the truth because you have NOT relied on the Spirit for enlightenment..
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in a nutshell, I would say – you have fallen into unbelief from leaning too heavily on your own understanding..…your point will ALWAYS remain until you give up looking for answers in your own mind – and start listening to the still small voice in your heart…
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Take time to MEDITATE on the Word, (rather than intellectually ANALYZING it)..
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remember how Paul says, “Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards..”
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The answer is not found through human intellect, otherwise only the brainy would get saved…rather the substance of true faith is found in the revelation of God’s Word to the heart – the evidence of things unseen..hidden from the wise and learned, but revealed to little children.- Let go of logic and believe in the Trinity right. lol.
Jesus said, “ye are theos”.
Please explain. He directly called them theos or was quoting the verse that said, “ye are elohim, ye are all sons of the Most High God”. Obviously you have no explanation so you continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend that it doesn’t exist. Now had someone said that to Jesus, you would be all over it like iron filings on a magent. But because this is a thorn in your side, you conveniently ignore it and stick to the mighty theos verse instead. You cherry pick that which supports you and ignore the rest. While I have gone to the trouble of looking at all scripture and explaining it because I beleive that is what you do when you are honest. You stick to certain verses and that is it. This is biased thinking DavidL. The whole of scripture is valid, not just a few that you can make say what you want them to say. Scripture is also judged by scripture. It gives us the context, and application. Ignoring that, and filtering all through a doctrine that developed centuries after the last book in the Bible was written is not wise.
Now back to the names.
Yeshua means “God is salvation”. Let’s apply your wisdom here. You said: “no Biblical character has a name that defines or describes him as God…EXCEPT JESUS..!!!”.
🙂 Except when he said “ye are theos” of course. 🙂
But how is his name Yeshua different to say other names that talk about God such as Isaiah? They are not that different. Worse for you is that he is not the only person with his name. The English transliteration is Joshua. So are all Joshua’s God?
You are always telling me to drop the logic and trying to get me to accept your confusion. But I rejected Babylon years ago and you are not exactly selling this to me. I don’t see any merit in accepting the Trinity. It is not even mentioned in the Bible and I don’t want to be associated with a doctrine whose enforcers murdered, persecuted, an imprisoned those who rejected it. I really do not want to partake in it. I am with those martyrs, not the ones who persecuted them.
Yeshua (ישוע, with vowel pointing יֵשׁוּעַ – yēšūă‘ in Hebrew)[1] was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (“Yehoshuah” – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. The name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which comes the English spelling Jesus.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)
Also take a look at: http://www.kjv-only.com/acts7_45.htmlThe Bible says that “knowledge puffs up” and “a little leaven leavens the whole lump”…this really is a picture of Pharisaical religion, where man-made teaching supersedes the revelation of God, and it must be stated that this was the foundation for Christ’s rejection, and the stronghold of the religious spirit itself over the Church of Christ today – a spiritual pride…that emanates and originates from the father of pride, Satan.
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Here, in this debate, Christ’s true deity is rejected on the same grounds of human reasoning as the puffed up Pharisees – and the attempt is made to entangle the unwary believer and searcher for truth with endless arguments that seem to hold some resemblance of logic and greater understanding…when in fact they are nothing but tricks and traps to confound our faith and fill our minds full of doubt and darkness…
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we are warned in Scripture not to be lead astray by such false arguments – right from the fall of man in the garden, Satan has continually used such methods of carnal reasoning to entrap the innocent and the unwatchful, leading them away from dependence on God to relying instead on their own wisdom..
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T8 attempts to push his borrowed arguments against the clear testimony of Scripture by saying we are all gods…and yet a child who trusts in God knows that we worship not man, nor the ‘god’ of this world – but like Thomas (whose spiritual eyes had been opened) we KNOW it is neither wrong nor unfitting to worship Yeshua and call Him our Lord AND OUR GOD (ONE with the Father)..!!!No matter how much you put down knowledge, you cannot put down truth. I simply give you truth, and you conveniently put it down saying it is knowledge. You are saying this to the face of Jesus, Peter, and Paul.
- Jesus said: “for eternal life is this, to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
- Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
- Paul said: “… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we
exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through”.
I think time has come for me to move on from this debate, and focus more completely on other duties…
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I am passionate about truth, not only as follower/lover of Christ, but also because I have myself experienced first hand the devastating effects cult Christianity has on the lives of those deceived by it’s false doctrines…
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I am in no way a teacher/preacher (just a redeemed soul that was once completely lost) my only interest here was in contending for the truth…contending against those who would alter the Scriptures as they stand (John 1:1), so as to justify their own uninspired and unqualified interpretations…
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In these times of increasing confusion and deception, we CAN (and MUST) still know the truth… yet it is not found by relying on our own understanding – but only through close and continued heart communion with the Lord. Analyzing doctrine is the way of Theologians and Pharisees – a practice and way of life that actually, in reality, opposes the very truth it professes to uphold.
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