Isaiah 9:6

[Proclaimer]

Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus the mighty God, does this prove the Trinity? 

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”‘

Here we can see that Jesus is called “Mighty God”. The word in the Hebrew used here is “El” and this word means the following:

1) god, godlike one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power ”

So Jesus is the Mighty El and this can be interpreted to mean that Jesus is the ‘mighty God like one’ according to the above definition which is also consistent with the overwhelming amount of scriptures that we have looked at so far. This interpretation is also in total agreement with the fact that, Jesus is the Image of God and the full expression of God in bodily form.

It has to be stressed that Isaiah 9:6 doesn’t say “Almighty God” and the existence of that term does lead to the logic that there are Gods or those who are called God but of a lesser position. The term “Mighty God” in Hebrew is ´El Gib·bohr´ and the term “Almighty God in Hebrew is ´El Shad·dai´ which applies uniquely to YHWH.

In addition to the above, it specifically says that ‘his name shall be … mighty god…’ If this makes Jesus Almighty God himself, then without bias you also have to include these others as God too because they also have similar names like “Mighty God”:

• Ezekiel means “God will strengthen”;
• Elijah is “Eli Yahweh”. Eli is Most High and Yahweh is the name of God.
• Isaiah means “Salvation from Yahweh”;
• Gabriel means “Strong God”;
• Joshua means “Yahweh Saves”;
• Jerusalem was called “The LORD our Righteousness”;
• Abraham called a mountain “The LORD will Provide” (Yahweh Jireh).

 

The other part of the scripture that mentions the term ‘Everlasting Father’ seems like a contradiction as it leads to some to believe that Jesus is actually the Heavenly Father. The word ‘Father’ used here is “Ab” and this word is the same word that is used when talking of Abraham as our Father (Ab) and this scripture is just a reference to say that Jesus is our Everlasting Father, in other words he is greater than Abraham. It is very important to read scriptures not only in context but also in agreement with other scriptures, especially since it is possible to interpret some scripture in more than one way. In fact we should always see things through Jesus eyes as he is the Truth. Many scriptures we have read so far were in fact the words of Jesus Christ himself. We should judge scripture with scripture in the same way that prophets should judge prophets and elders judge elders.

Surely we should steer clear of man-made doctrine and formulas that try to explain God, as the things of God are revealed to us by the Spirit of God, not the spirit of man or the understanding of man. If we try to see God as an idol made with human hands, or for that matter made from the human mind, such as trying to shrink God down to a statue, mathematical formula or diagram, then it can be said that you have created an idol. This comes from the heart of man as his nature is corrupt and always wanting to raise himself above all things including God himself because he desires to be his own God. However, it is God who reveals himself to Man, not Man who reveals God. The things of God are revealed by the Spirit of God, not Man. Scripture is clear that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah sent by God. He is not the God that he is the son of as is the logical conclusion that the Trinity Doctrine leads us to.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.

[DavidL]

Unfortunately, by opposing the Trinity belief you are subsequently forced to re-interpret many Scriptures (like this one).. so as to conform and line-up with your own teaching…
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You ask the question, “Does this verse prove the Trinity ?” – (of course, presupposing the answer for us)…but the Bible is not about proving anything, rather it’s about revealing truth to our hearts…
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Our first impression of this Scripture may seem odd – calling the Son the Everlasting Father…!?! But if we take time to look again a little closer we can actually see, within this famous prophetic verse from Isaiah, a very clear OT picture of the Trinity:
1. Jesus – The son who is given…
2. The Holy Spirit – Wonderful Counselor…
3. The Father – Almighty God, Everlasting Father…!!!
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Which further confirms the one voice of Scripture…”For in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” – Colossians 2:9

[Admin]

You are actually debating in favour of what I am saying.
The Father is the Almighty God.
Jesus is the son.
The Holy Spirit is the counselor.

There is no God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. There is the son of God and the Spirit of God. Of God is the key phrase here. Of God means of the Father.

So there is one God the Father who has a son and who has a spirit.

And closing your eyes to the usage of theos, such as Jesus saying, “ye are theos” and quoting from “ye are elohim, ye are all sons of the Most High” is conveniently ignored by you.

But we embrace all scripture as we seek the truth in scripture and put it above the creeds and traditions of men.

[DavidL]

I’m glad you can acknowledge the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in this well known passage, but what you fail to realize is that ALL THREE are ascribed to the Son…
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“and *HIS NAME* shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
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Sadly you are probably in a position where you just have to keep denying the evidence…but this is another clear picture of the Trinity that, like the many others I’ve shared, HAS NO BEARING WHATSOEVER TO DOCTRINES OR CREEDS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

[Admin]

Of course I acknowledge the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are plainly written. It is your doctrine that makes them the same one God that is not written and that we oppose for good reason.

Let me ask you this:

Do you acknowledge the following:
One true God who is the Father
One begotten son of God
One spirit of God.

i.e., God, son, spirit of God.

[DavidL]

That’s where you are wrong t8 – it’s not my doctrine that’s making it anything…it’s just what the verse says…!!!
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ALL THREE PERSONS ARE ASCRIBED TO THE SON…
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“..*HIS NAME* shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
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…but of course you have to deny this because of the position you have taken..

[Admin]

I don’t deny any of these names DavidL. His name shall be called ….. doesn’t make him God or the Father, for if it did, then to be fair you would also have to add these others as God too because they have similar names:

– Ezekiel means “Strong God”;
– Elijah is ‘Eli Yahweh’ which means “God Yahweh”. Eli means God and Yahweh is the name of God.
– Isaiah means “Salvation from Yahweh”;
– Gabriel means “Strong God”;
– Joshua means “Yahweh Saves”;
– Jerusalem was called “The LORD our Righteousness”;
– Abraham called a mountain “The LORD will Provide” (Yahweh Jireh).

[Admin]

The only denial I can see in this conversation is you denying that there is one true God, his son, and his spirit.

Instead, you change it to God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. While the first one is in scripture, the other two titles are not mentioned once. Yet you teach this.

[Anastas]

DavidL

These a titles given to the son of God. Everything the Father knew he taught Jesus did he not? And the Spirit only does the will of the Father, correct? So if they do the will of God (The Father) then qualities are sure to overlap, not meaning at all they are the same. The Father is wise and so he teaches and gives wisdom to Christ and so he is also wise. The Father is a great judge and so Christ judges the same making him a great judge. The Spirit only does the will of the Father so if the Spirit is a counselor then it stems from the Father as a counselor. And if the Father gives wise counsel then Christ would have the same title as he learned everything from the Father.

But I would also like to point out that you said all three persons are ascribed to the Son here. Well then you are fighting for oneness theology because you are saying the Father IS the Son and the Son is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit IS the Father. I thought you were a trinitarian who professes The Father is NOT the Son who is NOT the Spirit who is NOT the Father who is God? So because the verse isn’t even saying what you believe in the first place in a simple reading of this single verse a man can see your bias extremely easily.

[DavidL]

None of the Biblical names you give as examples are titles for God…!!
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Ezekiel – From the Hebrew name יְחֶזְקֵאל (Yechezqel) meaning “God strengthens” …(not “Strong God”)
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Elijah – From the Hebrew name אֱלִיָּהוּ (‘Eliyyahu) meaning “my God is YAHWEH” …(not “God Yahweh”)
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Isaiah – From the Hebrew name יְשַׁעְיָהוּ (Yesha’yahu) meaning “YAHWEH is salvation”
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Gabriel – From the Hebrew name גַבְרִיאֵל (Gavri’el) meaning “strong man of God” …(not “Strong God”)
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Joshua – From the Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yehoshu’a) meaning “YAHWEH is salvation”
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So yet again your arguments can only been seen as deceitful and purposely misleading…!!
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You say you don’t deny any of the names given to the Son…(Mighty God, Everlasting Father)…but then say it doesn’t make Him God or the Father…!!
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It means He is ONE with the Father [the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him] and thus He is [equal to] GOD…He “…was WITH God, and…WAS God.”
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Because of your anti-Trinitarian mind-set you are forced to change Scriptures that refer to the Son as *God*…YOU ARE THE ONE DENYING SCRIPTURE HERE…
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Why..? – because your understanding has been shaped by your study of Church Doctrine rather than by the scriptures themselves.
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If you want to understand the Trinity, one way is to look at Satan’s counterfeit – 666…there you see THREE working together under the ONE power of Satan…the antithesis, if you like, of God’s Trinity.

[Admin]

Let’s not pretend DavidL.

If Isaiah 9:6 said ‘His name shall be called ‘Eli Yahweh’ (God Yahweh) then you would make the exact same argument. Yet this same name is given to a mere man. So what of the only begotten of God? This is the point I make in case you missed it. You need to understand what a name means.

Think about it for a minute, which one sounds closer to God:
He shall be called the mighty God
He shall be called God Yahweh

Point is clear now I hope. The latter is the name of a famous prophet who is a man.

No Trinity in Isaiah 9:6 DavidL.

[DavidL]

so you would have us believe the names and titles attributed to the Messiah – (“…Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”) ..are all of no more significance than the name ‘Elijah’ or ‘Isaiah’…???
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Really it’s amazing how people can fall for such superficial arguments…!

[Admin]

You haven’t ceased yet in jumping to wrong conclusions.

I am pointing out that having a name that describes or identifies God, does not make you that God.

[Admin]

Just noticed your other post.

You said:
Elijah – From the Hebrew name אֱלִיָּהוּ (‘Eliyyahu) meaning “my God is YAHWEH” …(not “God Yahweh”)

So help me out here please.
Elijah is made of two words: Eli & Jah

Eli = “Ascent”; or “Yahweh is the most high/God on high”;
Jah = Jah is the shortened form of the divine name YHWH
So we actually have ‘Most High – Yehovah’.

Curious: How do you get “my God is YAHWEH”? Which part of Elijah means “MY”?

I could say the same about the other so-called corrections you made. But let me see you give an answer to that which you believe here.

Clearly MY is not in the word “Eli Jah’. You added it in. And if a man has the name Most High God, then according to the way you interpret “mighty God” you should then add the man Elijah into your Trinity. Otherwise you are breaking your own rules.

[DavidL]

Anyone can check on Bible names..and not once is the name ‘Elijah’ ever translated the way you say it should be..which again brings into question the reliability of your teaching..
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Eliyahu (אליהו) means “the Eternal one is God”
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Elijah (ēlī`jə) or Elias (ēlī`əs) [both: Heb.,=Yahweh is God],
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Eliyahu in Hebrew – my God is YHWH
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from Hebrew Elijah, literally “the Lord is God.” etc etc..

[DavidL]

According to your understanding of Hebrew you say, “Clearly ‘MY’ is not in the word ‘Eli Jah’. You added it in.”..(!?)
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But really your response only shows the ridiculousness and desperateness of your erroneous arguments…it’s not my interpretation – and if you somehow presume that all Bible dictionaries are wrong (and you alone are right), then please note that Jesus Himself translates the word “Eli” for us as meaning – “MY” God…
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Matthew 27: 46,47 – And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!”
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Really, you are trying to deny that there is any significance in the fact that throughout Scripture Jesus is referred to as *GOD* – and in every passage quoted, you work to discredit it any way you think you can…but as we see, your false arguments just don’t hold up…!

[Admin]

Yes Jesus said “eli eli” and it is translated “My God My God” as you say, thus I am guessing that you are arguing that “Eli” means “My God” but when I look up the meaning using different sources it means “Most High” and often is thought of as Most High God, as we would understand it even today. Most High usually means Most High God.

Also, are you aware that Jesus was quoting a Psalm. It was a custom in that day to quote part of a verse and let the hearer recite the rest to himself. So he may have spoken Aramaic, but what was the language of the Psalm that he quoted.

So you still haven’t answered the question. Which part is “MY” in eli jah?
Does Eli mean “My God”, “God” or what? I am asking for a breakdown because I can clearly see 2 words. Eli and Jah and Eli when you look it up in different sources it means “Most High” usually. How do we get to add in the word ‘MY’. I am curious. Especially considering that there is a biblical character by the name of Eli and his name doesn’t mean “My God”. It means ‘ascent’ or ‘Yahweh is the most high’ supposedly. e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eli_(Bible)

You can teach me something here. How does ‘My’ get added in the name Eli? You speak as if you have authority on this, so I look forward to the answer.

[Admin]

Your post also makes the interesting point that some thought he was calling out to Elijah. Hence that actually proves my original point about a name. Jesus is calling to God and some think he is calling to Elijah because obviously Elijah’s name sounds like God himself right? Thus being called “mighty God” or “Most High YHWH” in a certain language doesn’t mean you are what you are named after. I named one of my sons with one of my names, but that is no proof that he is me. If Eli means ‘Most High’ and Jah is YHWH, then I can understand why some thought he was calling to Elijah. So is Elijah God then? Well maybe if we took your line of reasoning with “mighty el’ and applied it to “eli jah.

[DavidL]

Whether Elijah means ‘My God is Yahweh’, or ‘The Lord is God’ doesn’t really matter – the point is… it DOESN’T mean ‘God Yahweh’ as you have stated – (so as to mislead us in our understanding about the meaning and significance of Christ’s title as ‘Mighty God’)..!
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TO MAKE THE ANTI-TRINITY TEACHING VAGUELY CREDIBLE TO HUMAN REASON, FALSE TEACHERS MUST SYSTEMATICALLY DENY AND ALTER ANY VERSE THAT SPEAKS OF CHRIST AS GOD…
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Isaiah 9:6 – He shall be called…Mighty God
John 1:1 – and the Word was God
John 20:28 – Thomas…’My Lord and my God.’
John 10:30 – I and the Father are One
John 8:58 – before Abraham was, I AM
Colossians 2:9 – in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead
Hebrews 1:8 – Your throne, O God, is forever and ever
Philippians 2:6 – Who, being in very nature God
Revelation 1:8 – I am Alpha and Omega…says the Lord God, the Almighty
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…these are very plain and clear, yet for those who reject the idea of God existing as a unity between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…they blot these sacred passages with their own unbelief… spreading their confusion with meaningless arguments over words…
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Peter says, “..some things..are difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist and misconstrue to their own utter destruction, just as they distort and misinterpret the rest of the Scriptures.”
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Put your trust in God not man – look to the Spirit for guidance and understanding rather than the interpretations of men… and beware ANY teacher who changes what the Scriptures say…

[Admin]

Help me out here then. This is your opportunity to teach me why it doesn’t mean that. I cannot just take your word for it. You can show me so that I can believe. Be prepared to give an answer to that which you believe.

Eli =
Jah =

I am open minded here, so thanks in advance for showing me your reasoning and where the word “My” comes into it. I accept truth when it is shown to me.

[Author]

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