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To all:
I was wondering if belief in the trinity was necessary for salvation? I've never read in the book of Acts where anybody said that you must believe Jesus to be God in order to be saved. In fact, I don't read the words “three persons”, or concepts like: “hypostatic union”, “essence” etc., anywhere.
I do read “repent, and be baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ [Messiah].” “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ., etc”
Personally speaking, when I was converted at the age of 12, I didn't know what the word “trinity” meant , neither was this concept spoken about where I had the conversion experience; but I do know this: I was taught he is Lord and Savior – I did know what Lord [master] meant – and that seemed to be good enough because from that time onward, my life changed drastically. Any thoughts???
Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 18 2009,09:14) To all: I was wondering if belief in the trinity was necessary for salvation? I've never read in the book of Acts where anybody said that you must believe Jesus to be God in order to be saved. In fact, I don't read the words “three persons”, or concepts like: “hypostatic union”, “essence” etc., anywhere.
I do read “repent, and be baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ [Messiah].” “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ., etc”
Personally speaking, when I was converted at the age of 12, I didn't know what the word “trinity” meant , neither was this concept spoken about where I had the conversion experience; but I do know this: I was taught he is Lord and Savior – I did know what Lord [master] meant – and that seemed to be good enough because from that time onward, my life changed drastically. Any thoughts???
Hi gladtidings:No, of course not. The “trinity doctrine” is a man made doctrine based on someone's understanding of the scriptures.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Quote Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The scriptures that I have posted are very clear as to what is required for salvation.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi glad tidings,
Jesus was a righteous man because the Spirit of God was working in him giving him wisdom and truth, thus providing him with the necessary influence to bring him great faith in God. The Spirit of God is not something that we choose, it chooses us and is given unto us at a specific time designated by our heavenly Father, who's will is for all men to be saved. What is necessary for salvation is God's Spirit, and God promises to give it to ALL men in due time!! The Sons of God mentioned in the bible of whom the whole creation groans for the revealing of, are those children who are the firstfruits. They are the first but not the last to receive the Spirit of our Heavenly Father. They are those that along with Christ will be leaders with the purpose of delivering the rest of God's Spirit to mankind, so that God will be ALL in ALL.
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
That is a brief description of my understanding anyway, blessings to you, Jodi
Jodi………..I also see it that way Sis. God our and Jesus' Father is able to save all his creation.
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Acts 2:38 actually tells you all you need to know for salvation.
Repent, this means to turn from your sins, be baptised in the the name of Jesus…..and do it the way they did it in the book of Acts. They went down into the water and fully went under the water..this is for the remission of your sins,,,then receive the Holy Ghost. You may not receive it right away but keep striving for it and wait with patience…I received two months after I was baptised and spoke with tongues,,,,exactly like they did in the book of Acts….just follow the book. Don't let anyone tell you this is not for today. It was for them back then and it is the same way today. Nothing has changed. Do it the way they did it and get what they got.
Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 18 2009,09:14) To all: I was wondering if belief in the trinity was necessary for salvation? I've never read in the book of Acts where anybody said that you must believe Jesus to be God in order to be saved. In fact, I don't read the words “three persons”, or concepts like: “hypostatic union”, “essence” etc., anywhere.
I do read “repent, and be baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ [Messiah].” “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ., etc”
Personally speaking, when I was converted at the age of 12, I didn't know what the word “trinity” meant , neither was this concept spoken about where I had the conversion experience; but I do know this: I was taught he is Lord and Savior – I did know what Lord [master] meant – and that seemed to be good enough because from that time onward, my life changed drastically. Any thoughts???
Welcome glad tiding! No the trinity is man made doctrine. It is Quintus Septimus Tertullian who instituted it first. Constantine who was the Roman emperor permitted the first Christians freedom to practice their religion. It was the Roman Universal Church, now called Roman Catholic Church. Until then they suffered for three centuries, and they were persecuted and died by the millions. Constantine also instituted worship on Sundays and all Holy Days became all Holidays like Christmas and Easter. If you like to learn of the Holy Days of God look in Leviticus 23. I find it so sad that most Churches now keep those Pagan Holidays.
The first step tp become aChristian is to be Baptized according to Scripture.Salvation or Eternal life is a free gift from God by Faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:6-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is a free gift of God.verse 9 not of works lest anyone should boast.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 18 2009,09:14) To all: I was wondering if belief in the trinity was necessary for salvation? I've never read in the book of Acts where anybody said that you must believe Jesus to be God in order to be saved. In fact, I don't read the words “three persons”, or concepts like: “hypostatic union”, “essence” etc., anywhere.
I do read “repent, and be baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ [Messiah].” “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ., etc”
Personally speaking, when I was converted at the age of 12, I didn't know what the word “trinity” meant , neither was this concept spoken about where I had the conversion experience; but I do know this: I was taught he is Lord and Savior – I did know what Lord [master] meant – and that seemed to be good enough because from that time onward, my life changed drastically. Any thoughts???
The trinity concept was understood to help reconcile Idolatry.So many places in the bible we are told to worship Jesus, to honor him, he's called Lord and God. He is called Almighty, he has said he is The alpha and omega…
There are hundreds of references in the bible that would cause us to praise Jesus as we do The Father.
Of course based in the OT this is seen as idolatry…and for anyone to receive Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior…when YHWH clearly stated he is the only one who can save and forgive sins…then they are committing Idolatry.
If you don't believe Jesus can forgive sins then you call him a liar, for he has said so in his own words.
So trinitarian christians understand Jesus, The Father, and The Holy spirit to all be One God…They are not different beings or Gods.
The Holy Spirit is just The Father's Wisdom, and Jesus is The Father's Word (Voice, communication, ect..) made flesh.
Each given it's own identity but still both functions of God's being.
This allows us to worship and revere Jesus in the way the bible teaches us to do so, without commiting Idolatry.
I think it's necessary to understand who Jesus is, because if you don't…then like he said….:Many will come to me, but I will say depart, for you have not known me…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,07:21) HiR,
So you think that the rationalisations of men justify upholding what God never taught?
God didn't teach HE was a trinity because he's not…Man understands he reaches out to us through 3 identities, The Unknowable Father…The Son who came to earth, and The Holy Spirit that lives in us.
All are God and of God, the one true almighty being.
The Son and Holy Spirit were just his ways of reaching out to creation.
We know The Father is who he is…The Son is just a manifestation of him, and The Holy spirit is his manifested wisdom.
So The Trinity is not WHO GOD IS….
The trinity is HOW he manifested himself to us.
He actually reaches out to us in two forms, but we know his true form as The Father exists…we just can't possible fathom him…That is why we know it as a trinity.
Hi R,
So why not cast aside these human additions and just believe what scripture says.
The Lord Jesus is the son of the God of Israel.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,07:29) Hi R,
So why not cast aside these human additions and just believe what scripture says.
The Lord Jesus is the son of the God of Israel.
Because without understanding Jesus as God The Son, or The Son of God…which is the same thing respectfully.Then praying to him or worshipping would be Idolatry.
But when you understand this concept you realize why God allows us to worship his Son as we Do The Father.
Because they are one in the same and share the same Glory.
When you worship Jesus you're really worshipping The Father.
When you worship the father you worship The Father.
This concept clears up all the contradictions in the bible, and truly lets you understand why Jesus dying on the cross was so important.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,07:59) Hi R,
God is in Jesus, His Son.
Adding justifications to the works of men increases the problem.
I'm not justifying the works of men, I'm understanding who Jesus is…So far what I understand from an anti-trinitarian view is that…
Jesus was a man that was born from a virgin. Which Means he was an ordinary man born of a miracle birth that has never trully happened anywhere else but apparently is insignificant because he was afterall an ordinary man.
This was the only man to come into existence and not sin, because God The Father chose to live inside him.
Because he lived inside him, he did not sin, and died on the cross (when he shouldn't of died because he was sinless).
We now can be forgiven for our sins, because we believe that a sinless man died for us.
But he was only sinless because the Father chose to dwell inside of him.
Ok, then my question is this….If God sees us as sinning as such a problem, why doesn't he choose to live inside of all of us the same way he did Jesus?
That way non of us would be sinners, and we can all skip the crap that comes with life?
Apparently God gave Jesus free will, so living inside of us wouldn't interfere with the free will concept.
A much better understanding for me is that….
Jesus is the literal word of God that was given an identity, and humbled himself to become a human being.This humblization (if that's a word) was a statement to mankind, that we will not just be God's creation, we are now going to be his kin.
Living on earth as a human and going through everything we go through further shows that God loves us so much, he's willing to suspend his power and glory to fit in with us.
As he did so, he lived a perfect human life, this was to be set as an example for all of us that are not perfect.
He then condemned himself to a fate that was due to an imperfect human…creating a gateway that if a perfect honest human can be condemned to the fate of a sinner.
Then a sinner can be rewarded to the fate of a perfect honest human.
This was a stronger statement that God made to show his love for us.
I prefer to believe this approach…it is bad to think Jesus was God The father in the flesh, it is not so bad to believe that Jesus was God's literal voice or word made flesh….
Being a function of God would in no way interfere with any kind of scripture…but if Jesus was God the father himself, then I can see all the problems with that.
Not being a part of God in some way, also leaves a huge gap in understanding, and still flutters the bible with many contradictions.
(This is the anti-trinitarian view, that Jesus is not a part of The Father in any way, he was just another created man)
Hi R,
So you would say he was not a real man and was not the Son of God putting lies in his mouth?
Scripture says God was IN HIM [2cor5]so was God in God?
How do you expound acts 10.38?Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 28 2009,07:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,07:29) Hi R,
So why not cast aside these human additions and just believe what scripture says.
The Lord Jesus is the son of the God of Israel.
Because without understanding Jesus as God The Son, or The Son of God…which is the same thing respectfully.Then praying to him or worshipping would be Idolatry.
But when you understand this concept you realize why God allows us to worship his Son as we Do The Father.
Because they are one in the same and share the same Glory.
When you worship Jesus you're really worshipping The Father.
When you worship the father you worship The Father.
This concept clears up all the contradictions in the bible, and truly lets you understand why Jesus dying on the cross was so important.
Go back and read what you wrote! Does that really makes sense to you as opposed to what the Bible actually says.This is simple to understand, even a child can get this truth:
Jesus is what he said he was, he is the Son of God. He is what Peter said he was, He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
God is what Jesus said he was, he is the Heavenly Father and the Heavenly Father is Spirit.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 29 2009,07:48) A much better understanding for me is that….
Jesus is the literal word of God that was given an identity, and humbled himself to become a human being.This humblization (if that's a word) was a statement to mankind, that we will not just be God's creation, we are now going to be his kin.
Living on earth as a human and going through everything we go through further shows that God loves us so much, he's willing to suspend his power and glory to fit in with us.
As he did so, he lived a perfect human life, this was to be set as an example for all of us that are not perfect.
He then condemned himself to a fate that was due to an imperfect human…creating a gateway that if a perfect honest human can be condemned to the fate of a sinner.
Then a sinner can be rewarded to the fate of a perfect honest human.
This was a stronger statement that God made to show his love for us.
I prefer to believe this approach…it is bad to think Jesus was God The father in the flesh, it is not so bad to believe that Jesus was God's literal voice or word made flesh….
Being a function of God would in no way interfere with any kind of scripture…but if Jesus was God the father himself, then I can see all the problems with that.
Not being a part of God in some way, also leaves a huge gap in understanding, and still flutters the bible with many contradictions.
(This is the anti-trinitarian view, that Jesus is not a part of The Father in any way, he was just another created man)
There is no trinity. If you believe in the trinity you should always prove it; The Berean did and so should we. You cannot find the trinity nowhere in the Bible. Scriptures asy that the Father IS ABOVE all.
Ephesians 4:6
John 14:28……My Father is greater thenI.Deut. 4:35″Unto thee is shewed, that might know that the LORD He is God there is none beside Him.”
Deut. 6:4″ Hear O Israel, The LORD our God is ONME LORD.
1Corinth. 8:4 “
And thou there is none other God, bur ONE.”Math.15:9″ But is vain do they worship Me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.
Peace and Love Irene
I don't believe in a trinity based on perfect equality amongst The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I do believe Jesus and The Holy spirit actually COME from The Father's very own essence, because Jesus is his WORD…or communication to creation.
And The Holy Spirit is his Wisdom.
So being functions of The Father, I believe they are all equally God in essence, with The Father sitting highest in authority.
One Being, different manifestations to creation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 01 2009,12:27) Hi R,
So he is not really the Son of God?
He is, He is The Son of Man…being born of a human woman.
The Son of God, being born of God The Father's Spirit…Pre-existing as The Word of God…he was always with The Father and already his Son.
Mankind did not know that, so that is why after his birth it was a big thing to know he was The only begotten Son of God.
Seriously Nick, when will you ask a difficult question…it's as if, you ask, we answer, you ask, we answer…and it never ends…
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