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please read the whole thing. eliyah has used the term “satan” before. what if this also is a pagan addition?
edit- i would like to change the title and not put it into a question form with the word “lie.” i think the 2 horns, red tail, fork is made up
I've always pictured Satan as more of a business man, wearing a suit, and not a red one. I've pictured him well arranged in fine dress with hair combed.
2 CORINTHIANS 11:14
“And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.”Isn't that horns and tail thing from Dante?
You forgot this part David.
“””Quote ( 2 Cor.11:15) It is therefore nothing great IF HIS ( satan's) MINISTERS also keep transforming themselves as ministers of righteousness( or pretend to be righteous Commandments keepers). But their end will be according to their works.”” BrandonIke, the name “satan” is actually an original Hebrew word, and they transliterated his name correctly, but they did not correctly transliterate YHWH'S Name at all, they merely substituted His name with other title deities.
however, satan is not pictured in scriptures as having a red suit and carrying a pitch fork in his hand as the world portrays him, he is a spirit and the prince of transgressions and the first murder( 1 John 3:8), and the arch deceiver( Rev.12:9) and enemy of all mankind.
Thanks,
Eliyah C.
BrandonIke,
It seems that you have been reading from the ( Christadelphians).
They teach that satan the devil is only WITHIN man and that in the garden of ( Gen.) that it was only human ” Propensity ” within that tempted Adam and Eve to sin.
In other words, it was their own “” interthoughts “” within their own minds that was really speaking to Adam and Eve which caused their ” Propensity ” in the flesh to commit sin.
While this doctrine proves that satan works through the flesh of humans, it ignores some key scriptures such as the Book of Ezekiel( and others) where it describes a ” cherub ” and satan is described as a covering cherub.
Also, their doctrine concerning satan as “” the whispering enchanter from within the own human mind “” is a fallace when compared to Messiah's Temptation by satan in the Gospel accounts.( Remember?)
This doctrine claims that satan was “” an interthought voice “” within Messiah's own mind of Himself.
Could anyone really imagine such a scenario that Messiah was really talking to His own ” interthoughts ” as talking to Himself concerning being tempted ?
Such doctrines ignor also, that the scriptures portray satan as “” intering into humans “” as he did Peter on one account and Messiah rebuked him.
Also, concerning ( Ezek.28) where satan enters the prince of Tyrus, and also ( Isa.14), their doctrine also ignors that satan is a ” created spirit “.
I have had a few run ins and debates with those of such belief, but they are dumfounded when scriptures such as Ezekiel where it describes a created cherub is shown to them, but satan is not some imaginary thought within the human mind, and satan loves that such doctrine because it leads people to dis-reguard that he even exists to deceive man.
Eliyah C.
Right David, that was the point of my last post, and hmm, you posted that before i even had a chance to read uour post.
your right tho.
eliyah, isn't it possible that a certain word could have been mistranslated? that those were lawyers or something that were roaming about like lions?
1 peter 5:8, “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.”
“In this verse, “devil” is diabolos in the Greek, and signifies “false accuser,” and the word “adversary” is antidikos, meaning “an opponent at law.” The “opponent at law,” a “false accuser” of the Christians was not a supernatural devil, but the persecuting civil authorities of the day. They are likened to “a roaring lion” because of their rapacious fierceness. For a similar reason, Paul wrote that he was “delivered out of the mouth of the lion” (2 Tim. 4:17). In other words, he escaped the imprisonment that was threatened against him.” (from the link)
DEVIL
This descriptive name was given to Satan because he is the chief and foremost slanderer and false accuser of Jehovah, his good word, and his holy name. The Greek di·a´bo·los means “slanderer.” (Compare Lu 16:1, where the related verb di·a·bal´lo occurs.)There are instances in the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures where the word di·a´bo·los occurs but does not refer to Satan, so the word is properly rendered “slanderer.” For example, in referring to Judas, Jesus said to the 12, “One of you is a slanderer” (Joh 6:70); women in the congregation were cautioned not to be slanderous (1Ti 3:11; Tit 2:3); that “men will be . . . slanderers” is one of the evidences of “the last days.”—2Ti 3:1-5.
SATAN
[Resister].
In many places in the Hebrew Scriptures, the word sa·tan´ appears without the definite article. Used in this way, it applies in its first appearance to the angel that stood in the road to resist Balaam as he set out with the objective of cursing the Israelites. (Nu 22:22, 32) In other instances it refers to individuals as resisters of other men. (1Sa 29:4; 2Sa 19:21, 22; 1Ki 5:4; 11:14, 23, 25) But it is used with the definite article ha to refer to Satan the Devil, the chief Adversary of God. (Job 1:6, ftn; 2:1-7; Zec 3:1, 2) In the Greek Scriptures the word sa·ta·nas´ applies to Satan the Devil in nearly all of its occurrences and is usually accompanied by the definite article ho.The Greek word an·ti´di·kos primarily refers to an “adversary at law” in a legal case (Lu 12:58; 18:3), but it can refer to others who are adversaries, or enemies, as in 1 Peter 5:8.
The most wicked Adversary, Satan the Devil, caused men and angels to join his opposition to God and man.The Scriptures are very clear and emphatic regarding who Satan is. Almighty God created many spirit creatures who have access to him in the heavens and who are his servants. The Bible reveals that when God “founded the earth,” creating it for future human habitation, “all the sons of God [angelic spirit creatures] began shouting in applause.” (Job 38:4, 7) In time, one of these angels turned against his Creator, becoming a rebel, an opposer.
This original opposer, or Satan (meaning “Resister”), was the one who used a serpent as a mouthpiece when speaking to Eve to induce her to disobey God. (Genesis 3:1-6) That is why he is also called “the original serpent.” (Revelation 12:9) Jesus himself said of Satan: “That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him.” (John 8:44; 1 John 3:8) Jesus thus identified Satan as one who once enjoyed God’s favor but who rebelled against Jehovah God.
Although some say that the Devil refers simply to an abstract principle of evil, the qualities and actions attributed to Satan in the Bible can be attributed only to a person. Indeed, the Bible shows that Satan is a real, invisible spirit person whose avowed purpose is to turn mankind away from serving the Creator, Jehovah God. When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus could not have been tempted by a mere quality of evil or ‘his own self-centeredness.’ For evil, or selfishness, could not dwell within Jesus, since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus was “guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.”—Hebrews 7:26; Luke 4:1-13.
Quest for Power
Satan rebelled against God in a quest for power, out of a desire to rule over others, to be their god, to be worshiped. (2 Corinthians 4:4) To Adam and Eve he offered power and freedom—“to be like God” in making their own decisions as to what is good and bad, right and wrong. (Genesis 3:5)
Power and freedom are what Satan still offers his worshipers.
Yes David, ye have to look at those words in what particular verse and instance it is referring to.
However, the scriptures reveal that the devil was the first wilful ” transgressor of Yah's laws “, and that is his and his children's identifying marks( St.John Chapter 8; and 1 John 3) is disobedience.
David, I could remind you of something that you said to me( and that manour) in an earlier post, but I will let it slide this time.
Quote (BrandonIke @ Sep. 20 2005,06:49) 1 peter 5:8, “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.” “In this verse, “devil” is diabolos in the Greek, and signifies “false accuser,” and the word “adversary” is antidikos, meaning “an opponent at law.” The “opponent at law,” a “false accuser” of the Christians was not a supernatural devil, but the persecuting civil authorities of the day. They are likened to “a roaring lion” because of their rapacious fierceness. For a similar reason, Paul wrote that he was “delivered out of the mouth of the lion” (2 Tim. 4:17). In other words, he escaped the imprisonment that was threatened against him.” (from the link)
Hi BrandonYip – precisely. Don't you think that rings true?
There's plenty more on Christadelphian beliefs about Satan and demons on these sites:
http://www.biblebasicsonline.com/english….il.html
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/forums….orum=18
The most thorough investigation I've seen of the subject is this article here, which is a response to a (pro) article by Sir Anthony Buzzard that criticises the Christadelphian position. The article gives a link to Buzzard's article, which I'd obviously recommend you read first.
I'm personally more than happy to discuss the subject, but only via email – online discussions where everyone disagrees with you can be rather taxing on the schedule
And by the way – yes we do believe that it was a literal serpent in Genesis 3.
God be with you all
Sam
Among the arguments used by some against the personality of Satan and the demons is that, since the words satan (Hebrew) and satanas and diabolos (Greek) are at times translated and used as common nouns, these words should never be transliterated and used as proper nouns, “Satan,” “Devil.” The same argument is used regarding “Logos.”
But that does not at all follow. Adam is a Hebrew word that literally means “earthling; human,” and is usually translated as “man.” But that does not at all mean that it may not at times refer to a certain man and therefore should be transliterated as “Adam.”—Gen. 5:1, 2.
It is further claimed that demons exist only in the mind and that in casting them out Jesus merely went along with popular superstitions. So when he told a legion of them to go into a herd of swine, they claim he was transferring the insanity, the mental aberration of the man. But then how are we to understand James’ words: “The demons believe and shudder”?—Jas. 2:19.
dave
Quote (BrandonIke @ Sep. 18 2005,12:48) http://www.bereans.org/pamphlets/satan.htm
Hi B,
the Christadelpians have excluded Satan from their doctrines so do not expect a berean study with them on this subject.Too bad. While I've often had to try to prove the existence of God, I've never really met anyone that believed in God but not Satan. So I was looking forward to attempting to understand the reasoning better and what the scriptures actually do say about Satan the devil.
Hi david,
Rev 12.9
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceves the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown with him”
The murderer, the accuser of the brethren, the father of lies is extant in the history of all things since the beginning as an opposer of the ways of God and a powerful deceiver of all who do not have the light in them.
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