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hi chosenone
you are right about one thing no matter what Gods will be done no one can stop it,but it still your choise to pick wich side you want to be on,and this is your free will choise you have to do,it is upon your on shoulders.
you can love God for many reasons but you will have to let the world and is teachings go, if you pick Christ because he is the way to God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 02 2010,11:04) Gene,
This is what you said
“Thinker……..your reliance on Scriptures rather then the Spirit of GOD, causes you much confusion. Let the Spirit (intellect) of GOD lead you and your will see the fallaciously of you beliefs. It not wrong to read scriptures but it takes the Spirit of God to properly understand them. (the spirit of truth) (intellect of truth) given by GOD the FATHER. IMO”So you say you rely on scripture but nobody else should?
This is getting confusing.
Nick……….Sorry you took it that way, that is not what i meant at all, what i meant was that reading scripture or quoting scripture , without the Spiritual understand given by the Spirit of GOD, means nothing, look at how many Trinitarians (QUOTE) Scriptures but they do not understand and are unable to put them together and make sense of them. That was MY point , never that i do not rely on scriptures I do with the Spirit of GOD giving them true understating to me and others, They are GOD'S Words and we are taught by them at least those who have His spirit are. I think you misunderstood my reply to Thinker or i did not clarify it enough.peace and love to you and your………………….gene
G,
Taken it that way?
Are you now reversing what you said?
Or is it OK to add to scripture from your understanding as you do?the gospel of truth is joy for those who have received from the Father of truth the grace of knowing him through the power of the word that came forth from the pleroma, the one who is in the thought and the mind of the Father that is the one who i addressed as the Savior, being the name of the work he is to perform for the redemption of those who were ignorant of the Fahter, while in the name the gospel is the proclamation of hope, being discovery for those who search for him
gospel of truth a noncannonical text.
Nick………I did not mean you could (NOT) rely on Scripture, I meant if you do that (ONLY) without Spiritual understanding it does no GOOD for YOU. Like you when you lack the understand about what SPIRIT is Even though Jesus explained it. That was my point i was trying to get across to thinker. Many scriptures are written in Symbolic language and in order to be understood you must have the Spirit guiding you mind and thoughts. imputing understanding to you of what is written. That is my POINT not the we are not to rely on scripture, The understanding of them is what counts, to Parrot them means nothing. GET IT In fact even thinker said ” so you can rely on scripture ,but nobody else can” He even knew i was not saying we could not rely on scripture. So why can't you see that. I was talking about what thinker was doing and had nothing to do with what i do, you simply added that to you thinking of what i was saying. Go back and reread it (carefully this time). You will not find any where i say i do not rely on scripture. If scripture alone can give you and everyone else the true understanding by itself the why do we have so many different interpretations and different bibles? Do you have a language problem where you live maybe thats the problem.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,11:29) hi chosenone you are right about one thing no matter what Gods will be done no one can stop it,but it still your choise to pick wich side you want to be on,and this is your free will choise you have to do,it is upon your on shoulders.
you can love God for many reasons but you will have to let the world and is teachings go, if you pick Christ because he is the way to God.
Hi terraricca.
You say that “Gods will will be done and no one can stop it”.
So in 1Tim2:4 …”Who (God) wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth”, you are saying in this verse that He (God) must be lying?Also you say “you can love God for many reasons but you will have to let the world and is teachings go,” I would be pleased to know what scriptures I quoted that are teachings of the world???
Blessings.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2010,11:25) Choosenone: Quote These few verses in particular show that “GOD IS OPERATING ALL ACCORDING TO HIS WILL'.(Eph.1:11)
Did you read and understand my previous post where I compared God to a chess master? I ask because a chess master operates all according to his will. You are in one part placing limits on God that do not exist. God created you so he decided the instant that you would come into being. He also decided who you parents would be. He did that for you and every living thing and for that matt unloving thing that you will have a dealing of any kind with. If you come to a choice in life God knew that you would come to that choice and chose to create you for that reason. When he foreknew that you would come to that choice he also foreknew the choice you would make and placed you there to make that choice.
For reasons I do not understand this seems to be a hard idea for people to except. If I were to speculate I would say that perhaps it is because God infinite power and knowledge is too vast for many people to grasp. For this reason they attempt to simplify it by arguing about free choice v predestination. Scripture teaches neither and both.
Acts 17:24-28(NIV) reads:
Quote .The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
In this teaching you can see elements of predestination as we are taught God determined the times and exact places where each man exist. But you also see elements of free choice as his reason was to give each man could choose whether or not to seek and perhaps reach out and find him. We are not taught that God makes the choice for each man but only that he puts the opportunity into each man’s life.
I have read the scriptures you wrote and they do not contradict what I have proposed and yet this scripture does contradict the idea that God makes choices for us..
You previously asked what scripture means when it states God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart. God was well aware of the choice the Pharaoh would make under the circumstances God placed him in when Mosses approached him. In fact God created the Pharaoh as well as Mosses and cast each in their role with that knowledge. In this case God manipulated Pharaoh to become stubborn but it was the Pharaoh’s choice to be stubborn which is why God also states:
Exodus 7:14(NIV) reads:
Quote Then the LORD said to Moses, “Pharaoh's heart is unyielding; he refuses to let the people go.
Hi kerwin.
You say in your reply “You are in one part placing limits on God that do not exist”. On the contrary, what I am saying is “there are no limits on what God can do”, for “He is operating ALL in accord with the councel of His will” (Eph.1:11).
Now in your version, YOU are saying that because of 'free will', God is limited in what He can do, because WE can make the choice.
I do not agree with the explanations you give in your post, it would be of great benefit it you would quote scripture confirming your information. I gave you scripture supporting my beliefs, if you don't agree with my beliefs supported by scripture that I provided, then we could discuss why you think this is not true. Otherwise it is futile to discuss your view of what God is doing if you don't back it up with scripture.
I do appreciate the way you interact, without insult or condemnation, much appreciated.God Bless, Jerry.
hi COne
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.what is it that you don't understand,”i said Gods wii will be done and no one can stop it “”
did i spelled out all the will of God ?? do you really think i know the total will of God ??
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it
?i did not mention that because you quote a scripture,I say this because if you serve Christ you can not serve the world or men .
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,17:30) hi COne
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.what is it that you don't understand,”i said Gods wii will be done and no one can stop it “”
did i spelled out all the will of God ?? do you really think i know the total will of God ??
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it?i did not mention that because you quote a scripture,I say this because if you serve Christ you can not serve the world or men .
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
Hi terraricca.You said…
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it
?I agree with you on this, God will save all mankind.
Blessings.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote Now in your version, YOU are saying that because of 'free will', God is limited in what He can do, because WE can make the choice.
I admit that God is limited in what he can do because he cannot do evil, nor for that matter be tempted to do it. Because this is true when we choose to do evil either we are doing it ourselves or evil does not exist. Scripture certainly contradicts that idea.
James 1:13-15(NIV) reads:
Quote When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote You say in your reply “You are in one part placing limits on God that do not exist”. On the contrary, what I am saying is “there are no limits on what God can do”
The limit you place on God by your teaching in that you do not believe it possible for God to be in complete control at the same time he allows man free choice. I believe that even a chess master can do that to a limited extent. When I make a choice I know that God knew beforehand what I would choose and his plan takes into account my choice even if my choice was bad. There is nothing I can do to damage or advance God’s plan but my choice is still a measure of my heart.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote I do not agree with the explanations you give in your post, it would be of great benefit it you would quote scripture confirming your information.
I did quote Acts 17:24-28 and other scripture that actually supports what I posted. I made the same point it does though in my own words. You, yourself already know that scripture mentions both choice and predestination though you appear to disregard those that speak of making choices.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote I do appreciate the way you interact, without insult or condemnation, much appreciated.
Personal attacks serve their purpose as Jesus, John the Baptist, and other servants of God show. I have certainly used them in the past to jar the other person to awareness. I did not see such a need at this time.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 02 2010,17:54) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,17:30) hi COne
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.what is it that you don't understand,”i said Gods wii will be done and no one can stop it “”
did i spelled out all the will of God ?? do you really think i know the total will of God ??
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it?i did not mention that because you quote a scripture,I say this because if you serve Christ you can not serve the world or men .
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
Hi terraricca.You said…
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it
?I agree with you on this, God will save all mankind.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
Interesting that you have come to believe what scripture never states.
Are you wiser than scripture?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,05:26) Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 02 2010,17:54) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,17:30) hi COne
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.what is it that you don't understand,”i said Gods wii will be done and no one can stop it “”
did i spelled out all the will of God ?? do you really think i know the total will of God ??
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it?i did not mention that because you quote a scripture,I say this because if you serve Christ you can not serve the world or men .
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
Hi terraricca.You said…
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it
?I agree with you on this, God will save all mankind.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
Interesting that you have come to believe what scripture never states.
Are you wiser than scripture?
NH.Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 03 2010,11:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,05:26) Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 02 2010,17:54) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2010,17:30) hi COne
1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
1Ti 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.what is it that you don't understand,”i said Gods wii will be done and no one can stop it “”
did i spelled out all the will of God ?? do you really think i know the total will of God ??
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it?i did not mention that because you quote a scripture,I say this because if you serve Christ you can not serve the world or men .
Lk 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”
Hi terraricca.You said…
Paul says that God wants all people to be saved,so this would be his will ,so who will stop it
?I agree with you on this, God will save all mankind.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
Interesting that you have come to believe what scripture never states.
Are you wiser than scripture?
NH.
NH.
Scripture says so. Your eyes have been blinded, you can't see it.Hi CO,
Scripture says in several places that all will be saved?
I think you are confused with those remaining. 1 Peter 4.18Hi CO,
When you correctly apply verses written to the reborn and do not apply them to the godless you will be taken seriously.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2010,20:48) Choosenone wrote: Quote Now in your version, YOU are saying that because of 'free will', God is limited in what He can do, because WE can make the choice.
I admit that God is limited in what he can do because he cannot do evil, nor for that matter be tempted to do it. Because this is true when we choose to do evil either we are doing it ourselves or evil does not exist. Scripture certainly contradicts that idea.
James 1:13-15(NIV) reads:
Quote When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote You say in your reply “You are in one part placing limits on God that do not exist”. On the contrary, what I am saying is “there are no limits on what God can do”
The limit you place on God by your teaching in that you do not believe it possible for God to be in complete control at the same time he allows man free choice. I believe that even a chess master can do that to a limited extent. When I make a choice I know that God knew beforehand what I would choose and his plan takes into account my choice even if my choice was bad. There is nothing I can do to damage or advance God’s plan but my choice is still a measure of my heart.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote I do not agree with the explanations you give in your post, it would be of great benefit it you would quote scripture confirming your information.
I did quote Acts 17:24-28 and other scripture that actually supports what I posted. I made the same point it does though in my own words. You, yourself already know that scripture mentions both choice and predestination though you appear to disregard those that speak of making choices.
Choosenone wrote:
Quote I do appreciate the way you interact, without insult or condemnation, much appreciated.
Personal attacks serve their purpose as Jesus, John the Baptist, and other servants of God show. I have certainly used them in the past to jar the other person to awareness. I did not see such a need at this time.
Hi kerwin.
I am copying 2Cor.3:1-6, that as you can see, explains that “all is of God”. There are also many verses in the book of Romans saying “and this is not of you”. I haven't taken the time to copy these verses, I'm sure you can read them yourself.1 Are we beginning again to commend ourselves? Or need we not, even as some, commendatory letters to you or from you?
2 You are our letter, engraven in our hearts, known and read by all men,
3 for you are manifesting a letter of Christ, dispensed by us, and engraven, not with ink, but with the spirit of the living God, not on stone tablets, but on the fleshy tablets of the heart.
4 Now such is the confidence we have through Christ toward God
5 (not that we are competent of ourselves, to reckon anything as of ourselves, but our competency is of God),
6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying.
7 (Now if the dispensation of death, by letters chiseled in stone, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look intently into the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face, which was being nullified,
8 how shall not rather the dispensation of the spirit be in glory?
9 For if in the dispensation of condemnation is glory, much rather the dispensation of righteousness is exceeding in glory.Like the “trinity”, nowhere are the words “free will' exist in scripture.
Blessings.
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