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Quote This makes the pagans mad that 'their' day has been taken over by Christians and their god and goddess are not the ones honored on those days. This just isn't true. Pagans love that “we” (you) are following / mimicking / adopting / imitating their ways. It makes them smile and laugh, and shake their heads.
Quote You want the pagans to have their day separate from Christian celebrations and I want to replace their celebrations with Christian celebrations. It's mostly what Jesus wants: He was “no part of the world” and he said his followers would be “no part of the world.” They wouldn't adopt worldly holidays or be influenced by wordly thinking. They wouldn't embrace the world. Rather, they would shun its ways.
Quote God gives us example after example of REPLACING things. He replaced Canaanites with Israelites in the land of Canaan. LU, what if those Israelites began to “learn the way of the heathen”? Is this something God would want?
Your example involves not imitating, or mixing of Christian beliefs with pagan customs, but rather, a complete replacing of the caananites with the israealites.
90% of people in the world celebrate Christmas.
What percentage of the world claims to be Christian? (33%)
It started in paganism. It's still pagan. It's celebrated by more pagans and people who don't even believe in Jesus than by people who do.
Based on the numbers above, it's a worldly holiday, not a Christian one.
Jesus: be “no part of the world.”
Quote Even the pagans are aware of this because Christians have 'stomped on their parade,' so to speak and they see the difference. They aren't happy about it. Why do you believe this?
You are not stomping on their parade.
YOU ARE ENDORSING IT. YOU ARE PROMOTING IT. YOU ARE COMBINING IT WITH YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND POPULARIZING IT.
The only difference is the name changes to these things. Christmas, Easter, halloween, etc.As has been pointed out, with Easter, you didn't even try to hard. “Easter” comes from the name of a false god.
Is this you stomping on paganism? Or, promoting it?Quote Actually, Christmas, which is about the story of Christ's birth, and Easter, which is about the death and resurrection of Christ, definitely have their roots from two of the most glorious events that took place in Christianity. Many of the established feasts pointed to these two events. No pagan roots there. Anything pagan that can be found on those days was REPLACED with those true Christian events. Yup, no pagan roots in those Hebrew feasts. No connections to Christmas or Easter, either.
Christmas wasn't celebrated until hundreds of years after Christ.
Quote No one is saying that they celebrate Christmas and Easter because of a command, but because the events of the birth and resurrection are fundamental to the Christian faith and what the original commanded feasts are pointing to. I'm wondering which feasts and what connection could actually be made, other than the fact that they both involve food?
These celebrations were not officially celebrated annually until a few hundred years after they took place—LU
LU, we agree on this. I am wondering WHY you think the earliest Christians, the ones who knew Jesus, the ones who were taught by Jesus, the ones who knew the apostles and were taught be the apostles didn't think it important enough to celebrate?
Quote No one is saying that they celebrate Christmas and Easter because of a command, but because the events of the birth and resurrection are fundamental to the Christian faith and what the original commanded feasts are pointing to. Yet, somehow the earliest Christians didn't realize how 'fundamental' Christmas and Easter were.
They only knew how “fundamental” memorializing his death was, because that is all Christ commanded, saying: “keep doing this in remembrance of me.”
You point out that for hundreds of years, Christians didn't think it was fundamental. yet, you call it fundamental.
I would tend to think that the earliest Christians had the best grasp of what was and what wasn't fundamental.
Wouldn't you?
??Quote It is because of Christmas that more people are told the gospel message, Easter too. That is a very good thing and a means to carry out the great commission which was a command, btw. Yes, I know. Every year, I have to explain to 20 people why I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter.
And yes, I obviously know that we are commanded to preach the good news of the kingdom to people. I found your “btw” quite amusing.
However, I may have missed some. If you are still wondering something, feel free to ask.
Ok, I specifically wanted an answer to two questions:
How the Hebrew feasts are connected to Christmas, Easter.
And, the second, I've already asked, but will ask again:
1. Why do you think the early Christians refused to celebrate birthdays (including Jesus birthday)? There is no record of Christians celebrating Jesus' birth for hundreds of years. Why did they refuse to do so? (I can provide a string of quotes saying they didn't, if you like, showing that the early Christians regarded them as a practice for the pagans) They didn't just neglect to do so. They purposefully avoided celebrating them.
My question to you: WHY? Why do you think?
And DO YOU THINK THEIR REASONS ARE UNIMPORTANT?
WERE THE EARLIEST CHRISTIANS WRONG IN THEIR THINKING? IF SO, WHY?Quote (shimmer @ Mar. 16 2012,11:26) Hi Annie. Good posts BTW 
Some here like to encourage others to be a part of the world and it's ways. Best to just let them be, they will not see it.
I completely agree that we should be “no part of the world” as Christ said his followers would be.90% of the world celebrates Christmas. It is a global worldly holiday.
THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE who celebrate Christmas do not claim to be Christian…do not believe in Christ.
It is the world's holiday. It began as pagan. And TODAY it is mostly celebrated by non-christians.
Jesus: “I am no part of the world…”
Jesus: 'my followers are no part of the world.'2/3 of those who celebrate Christmas–NOT CHRISTIAN.
It's those who claim to follow Jesus who have therefore apparently decided to celebrate this worldly pagan lie of a holiday with the world. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
It started with false gods. It is still celebrated by neo pagans today. The customs and the date are the same. It is only the lie that it is Christ's birth that has been added!“Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the heathen are dismayed by them. For the customs of the people are vain” (Jer. 10:2, 3)
The facts are:
–It is the birthday of the sun god, not Jesus' birthday.
–How does Jesus and his father view false gods? (approval/disapproval)
–He commanded us to memorialize his death and nothing else.
–The earliest Christians refused to celebrate his birthday or any one else's. Why?
–Greed and commercialism have taken over this holiday.
–It's not primarily about Jesus–most people who celebrate Christmas do not even believe in Jesus.Quote (david @ Mar. 16 2012,12:49) Quote Even the pagans are aware of this because Christians have 'stomped on their parade,' so to speak and they see the difference. They aren't happy about it. Why do you believe this?
You are not stomping on their parade.
YOU ARE ENDORSING IT. YOU ARE PROMOTING IT. YOU ARE COMBINING IT WITH YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND POPULARIZING IT.
The only difference is the name changes to these things. Christmas, Easter, halloween, etc.As has been pointed out, with Easter, you didn't even try to hard. “Easter” comes from the name of a false god.
Is this you stomping on paganism? Or, promoting it?
“3. Do many witches celebrate Christmas (in a secular present-giving way) as well?
[LR] I should think that almost all of them do. Calls to ban Christmas and not celebrate it have always come from within sections of the Christian community (e.g., the Jehovah’s Witnesses) who, quite rightly, see Christmas as a Pagan festival.”http://www.witchology.com/contents/interviews/yule_winter_solstice.php
I'm not sure why you think pagans would be mad that you are popularizing their holiday. The fact that you attached Christ to it, does not bother pagans. It bothers Christ. (See Bible)
David,
Are you done?
You have spent quite a lot of time on the internet today for someone who claims to be above being 'a part of the world.' I am going to be quite busy for the next few days at a retreat with the women from my church. I will address your questions later, although it may take me till Easter or even Christmas since you have so many, ha.Quote (shimmer @ Mar. 16 2012,11:26) Hi Annie. Good posts BTW Some here like to encourage others to be a part of the world and it's ways. Best to just let them be, they will not see it.
Hi Shimmer,Yes, I agree. They follow the teachings of men but are deceived. If they are stubborn and not open to the truth, they will never see it. All in HIS timing as He knows when and if they will be willing to receive the truth.
“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth, and wander into myths. As for you, always be steady endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2Tim. 4:3-5
We are to still tell them the truth but if they are not willing to receive it we are to dust off our shoes and move on, as nothing we tell them will make a difference to them. All you end up doing is repeating yourself and in the end they still didn't hear a word you said!
“And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.” Matt.10:14
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 16 2012,10:44) And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn’t find his body.[/i]
LU…….> What is being said there is that three days have already past, and they were not yet informed that Jesus had resin, it is not say they were still in the third day period . the Key is the word “SENSE” his death on the Cross. They full well know Jesus was to be in the grave three day and three nights. Sunday was another day after the three day and three night period and Sunday started the night before at sundown Saturday. That is when the first day of the week Sunday started, in the Hebrew calendar. Those disciples were saying there were already three days past sense the time he was supposed to have be risen, not that they were in that third day period in which he was to rise as you assume they were saying.Jesus rose Saturday afternoon around 3:00 his three days and three nights were completed at that time, there was no “Easter Sunrise resurrection”. Also we have scripture that say the Messiah would be cut off in the MIDST of The WEEK, that would be Wednesday, and he was at 3:00 in the afternoon, Or better know as in the Third Hour. You can not get three days and three nights from 3:00 PM Wednesday after noon to Sunday morning that would add a Half a day to the completed time period.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (annie @ Mar. 16 2012,20:43) Quote (shimmer @ Mar. 16 2012,11:26) Hi Annie. Good posts BTW Some here like to encourage others to be a part of the world and it's ways. Best to just let them be, they will not see it.
Hi Shimmer,Yes, I agree. They follow the teachings of men but are deceived. If they are stubborn and not open to the truth, they will never see it. All in HIS timing as He knows when and if they will be willing to receive the truth.
“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth, and wander into myths. As for you, always be steady endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2Tim. 4:3-5
We are to still tell them the truth but if they are not willing to receive it we are to dust off our shoes and move on, as nothing we tell them will make a difference to them. All you end up doing is repeating yourself and in the end they still didn't hear a word you said!
“And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town.” Matt.10:14
Annie,
First of all welcomeI would have to say if you came; Healing the sick. Bringing the dead back to life. Healing people who have leprosy. And forcing demons out of people. and told me to celebrate Christmas was wrong I would pay a lot more attention.
Instead you pass judgment on a person for Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. while we are told; Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Wm
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