Is Jesus still a man in heaven?

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

Are you saying that each INDIVIDUAL human being consists of TWO human beings, Kerwin?

No; instead I am saying that in a manner of speaking Scripture is; in order to teach.  I choose to stick to the precedent of Scripture and so use it in the same way.

Quote

That seems to be what you are saying, and is most likely the reason I'm not understanding you – because your words are unscriptural and untrue.

This what Scripture states:

2 Corinthians 4:16
King James Version (KJV)

16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The “we” and “our” tells us addresses both the writers, the readers,and the hearers.  I see no reason to believe they are exceptions to the human race.

Quote

Do you have more scriptural witnesses to support your understanding of “inner man”?  Or could it be that you are purposely understanding it wrong in an effort to support your theory that Jesus is both a spirit being AND a human being?

Romans 7
King James Version (KJV)

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Ephesians 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Why don't you understand that each of us in one being composed of two parts; a material and a spiritual?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,14:44)

Why don't you understand that each of us in one being composed of two parts; a material and a spiritual?

And is the material part of us a human being, in and of itself? How about the spiritual part?

(The word “parts” should tell you they are indeed PARTS of ONE human being and not TWO separate “men”.)

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 15 2012,02:52)

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,14:44) Why don't you understand that each of us in one being composed of two parts; a material and a spiritual? And is the material part of us a human being, in and of itself?  How about the spiritual part? (The word “parts” should tell you they are indeed PARTS of ONE human being and not TWO separate “men”.)

Mike,

I use the words parts; not Scripture; therefore it is my understanding. You may agree or not.

[mikeboll64]

I don't. Nor do I agree with you that there are two kinds of human flesh – one that can live in heaven and one that can't.

Jesus became a spirit, and he told us that spirits do NOT have flesh. He didn't distinguish any particular KIND of flesh that spirits don't have; instead he clearly said that they simply DON'T HAVE FLESH.

Paul tells us that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Men are made of flesh.

Add these all together and you will understand that Jesus can no longer consist of any kind of flesh, and therefore cannot possibly be a human being.

[kerwin]

Colter;

The 1955 Urantia revelation is a strange teaching.   What has been revealed to me is that humans are in the form of the nature of sin as to human nature but believers come to share in the form of the nature of godliness as to the nature of the Spirit of God.  

This is true of Jesus as he is both human and a mature believer. He is not God because he was tempted as we are but without sin and God cannot be tempted by evil.  He has never sinned because he walks by the Spirit through faith from first to last; just as it is written the righteous live by faith.  He did not pre-exist his conception in the inner parts of Mary because no one exists before they come to be.

[terraricca]

the worst thing that a person can do ,is if he does not understand scriptures ,is going after men theories and and corrupt version of believes

because he would never see the end in truth ,and ever dig the wrong deeper and deeper

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 15 2012,07:52)

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,14:44) Why don't you understand that each of us in one being composed of two parts; a material and a spiritual? And is the material part of us a human being, in and of itself?  How about the spiritual part? (The word “parts” should tell you they are indeed PARTS of ONE human being and not TWO separate “men”.)

Hi MB,
God told Adam he was Dust.
But He also made man in His image and He is not dust.

There is an outer man that is degenerating while the inner man is being renewed day by day if men are of the light and are walking in the light and feeding of the bread of life.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

I don't.  Nor do I agree with you that there are two kinds of human flesh – one that can live in heaven and one that can't.

 

According to 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, there are certain characteristic that differentiate the spiritual body from the natural body.   The natural body corrupts, lacks honor, is weak.   Just like all flesh is not the same so to the natural body is not like the spiritual body as the spiritual body does not corrupt, has honor, and is quickened by the power of the Spirit.  

You know that the body of man before the Fall did not corrupt, had honor, and was quickened by the Spirit of God.  You also know it was not the same as the human body after the Fall; which corrupts, lacks honor, and is weak.   Therefore you know there are two bodies of man; one that has the characteristics of the natural body and one that has the characteristics of the spiritual body.  You also know they are not the same.

You are also aware that the body that is planted is not the body that arises.  You know Jesus flesh and blood were laid in his tomb and his flesh and bone arose and they are not the same; as the body that was sown is but a seed of the body that arose; for that is what is written about the resurrection of the dead.  It is the flesh and blood body with the characteristics of the natural body that is planted and the flesh and bone body with the characteristics of the spiritual body that arose; just as is written.

Quote

Jesus became a spirit, and he told us that spirits do NOT have flesh.  He didn't distinguish any particular KIND of flesh that spirits don't have; instead he clearly said that they simply DON'T HAVE FLESH.

 

This is a story made up by Gnostics; who teach the material world is flawed and only the immaterial world is perfect.  It is not taught by Scripture as Creation was made perfect in the beginning and angels are shown to have a material body.

Quote

Paul tells us that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom.  Men are made of flesh.

 

Why would you think such a silly thing as you know flesh and bone were created in and given the kingdom of God in the beginning?  It is only through sin they lost their first estate and became a natural body.  

Here are two witnesses that are consistent with the Scriptural facts and the language peculiar to Scripture.

1 Corinthians 15
International Standard Version

50Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies [dd] cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay.

[dd] 15:50 Lit. mean: Flesh and blood

And

1 Corinthians 15
Weymouth New Testament

50 But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable

Quote

Add these all together and you will understand that Jesus can no longer consist of any kind of flesh, and therefore cannot possibly be a human being.

 

Add the Scriptural facts together minus the Gnostic viewpoint and you derive that Jesus now has the spiritual flesh and bone body that mankind was created with.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,18:13)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)  Jesus became a spirit, and he told us that spirits do NOT have flesh.  He didn't distinguish any particular KIND of flesh that spirits don't have; instead he clearly said that they simply DON'T HAVE FLESH.   This is a story made up by Gnostics;

Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.
Was Jesus a gnostic?

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,18:13)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)  Paul tells us that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom.  Men are made of flesh.   Why would you think such a silly thing as you know flesh and bone were created in and given the kingdom of God in the beginning?

God created the heavens, then the earth, and THEN put man on the earth.  Where do you read in scripture about men dwelling in heaven (the Kingdom of God)?

Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2012,18:13)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)  Add these all together and you will understand that Jesus can no longer consist of any kind of flesh, and therefore cannot possibly be a human being.   Add the Scriptural facts together minus the Gnostic viewpoint and you derive that Jesus now has the spiritual flesh and bone body that mankind was created with.

“Spiritual flesh”?    Kerwin, I believe you've been posting your unscriptural drivel for so long you've come to actually BELIEVE it.  Why would you believe your own words over the words of scripture?  

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 15 2012,18:13)

Mike, Quote  I don't.  Nor do I agree with you that there are two kinds of human flesh – one that can live in heaven and one that can't.   According to 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, there are certain characteristic that differentiate the spiritual body from the natural body.   The natural body corrupts, lacks honor, is weak.   Just like all flesh is not the same so to the natural body is not like the spiritual body as the spiritual body does not corrupt, has honor, and is quickened by the power of the Spirit.   You know that the body of man before the Fall did not corrupt, had honor, and was quickened by the Spirit of God.  You also know it was not the same as the human body after the Fall; which corrupts, lacks honor, and is weak.   Therefore you know there are two bodies of man; one that has the characteristics of the natural body and one that has the characteristics of the spiritual body.  You also know they are not the same. You are also aware that the body that is planted is not the body that arises.  You know Jesus flesh and blood were laid in his tomb and his flesh and bone arose and they are not the same; as the body that was sown is but a seed of the body that arose; for that is what is written about the resurrection of the dead.  It is the flesh and blood body with the characteristics of the natural body that is planted and the flesh and bone body with the characteristics of the spiritual body that arose; just as is written. Quote  Jesus became a spirit, and he told us that spirits do NOT have flesh.  He didn't distinguish any particular KIND of flesh that spirits don't have; instead he clearly said that they simply DON'T HAVE FLESH.   This is a story made up by Gnostics; who teach the material world is flawed and only the immaterial world is perfect.  It is not taught by Scripture as Creation was made perfect in the beginning and angels are shown to have a material body. Quote  Paul tells us that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom.  Men are made of flesh.   Why would you think such a silly thing as you know flesh and bone were created in and given the kingdom of God in the beginning?  It is only through sin they lost their first estate and became a natural body.   Here are two witnesses that are consistent with the Scriptural facts and the language peculiar to Scripture. 1 Corinthians 15 International Standard Version 50Brothers, this is what I mean: Mortal bodies [dd] cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and what decays cannot inherit what does not decay. [dd] 15:50 Lit. mean: Flesh and blood And 1 Corinthians 15 Weymouth New Testament 50 But this I tell you, brethren: our mortal bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, nor will what is perishable inherit what is imperishable Quote  Add these all together and you will understand that Jesus can no longer consist of any kind of flesh, and therefore cannot possibly be a human being.   Add the Scriptural facts together minus the Gnostic viewpoint and you derive that Jesus now has the spiritual flesh and bone body that mankind was created with.

K

1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Paul does not say that we are (The natural body corrupts, lacks honor,) as you say'

it is related to our condition created by Adam actions and so under that curse ,but after being changed by believing in Christ and producing the deeds of that faith,this allow Christ to forgive our sins of ignorance and Adam curse,and so be declared righteous and for some of men being redeemed from the earth and live in the glory of heaven with him ,

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ April 15 2012,08:59)

Colter; The 1955 Urantia revelation is a strange teaching.   What has been revealed to me is that humans are in the form of the nature of sin as to human nature but believers come to share in the form of the nature of godliness as to the nature of the Spirit of God.   This is true of Jesus as he is both human and a mature believer. He is not God because he was tempted as we are but without sin and God cannot be tempted by evil.  He has never sinned because he walks by the Spirit through faith from first to last; just as it is written the righteous live by faith.  He did not pre-exist his conception in the inner parts of Mary because no one exists before they come to be.

If there was a temptation, it was the human aspect of Jesus not the divine, but Jesus never said that he was tempted, that is the writing and characterization of men.

Original sin doctrine was adopted by the Hebrews from the Persians, death has always been on the earth, but death was not the fate of Adam and Eve who were also incarnate celestial beings. Death came specifically to them after the default. They lost the use of the tree of life.

Colter

[Spock]

Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2012,05:18)

Quote (Colter @ April 15 2012,04:51) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,10:49) Quote (Colter @ April 14 2012,12:45) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,03:33) Shimmer Quote We each have our own idea it seems on what God is , weather Jesus pre-existed, etc, but in the end, all that really matters is how we have lived our life…  And if we listen to God – and if we turned to God. God either knows us, or He doesn't. i know God is my Father and I love God. And Jesus is my help and my friend and I love Jesus. And in the end, that's all that really matters. “Return to me saith the LORD and I will return to You”. My prayer is that everyone here can stand in the day which we are in, and that many remain in the end, because the end is drawing near. Listening to God and not the self… And obeying God is the key. God bless take care, all. this is good ,but the ones that really submit them self to God ,could be seen by the truth that they preach not by their opinions ,if we say that we follow Christ and his father and not understand scriptures ,is this not shows that we are not part of the ones that are submit to God to me it does ,because how can you submit your selves to God on one hand and then not even understand what he says in his words to you? and if you do not fulfill the words you do not understand what are you fulfilling ? the opposition ???yes. The apostles were often confused as well. COLTER wen at the beginning or at the end (of 3.5 years)   All throughout their experience, from being chosen, throughout the 3+ years of Jesus training, then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter colter how can you establish what you say ,with what you know from scriptures , spell it out with the apostles letters and see if you make any sense in what you claiming ; or are you full of hot air ? Quote then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter

Yes, the apostles were imperfect men, that can be gleaned from the gospels and from acts.

The gospel of Jesus, his religion, was taught and practised three years before the cross. It was salvation by faith, by spiritual transformation for those in need of it. In the religion of Jesus God was already forgiving. The purpose of Jesus' death other then to experience what man is asked to experience, was to demonstrate his authority as he told the religious authorities of his day.

Paul's Christian religion was a Pagan compromise, it was about Jesus as a human sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins. One need only acknowledged their belief that Jesus died as a ransom, an atonement for sins. The atonement doctrine is “theoretical” salvation, the original gospel was real, faith based personal transformation, a spiritual rebirth.

Colter

[terraricca]

Quote (Colter @ April 15 2012,19:27)

Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2012,05:18) Quote (Colter @ April 15 2012,04:51) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,10:49) Quote (Colter @ April 14 2012,12:45) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,03:33) Shimmer Quote We each have our own idea it seems on what God is , weather Jesus pre-existed, etc, but in the end, all that really matters is how we have lived our life…  And if we listen to God – and if we turned to God. God either knows us, or He doesn't. i know God is my Father and I love God. And Jesus is my help and my friend and I love Jesus. And in the end, that's all that really matters. “Return to me saith the LORD and I will return to You”. My prayer is that everyone here can stand in the day which we are in, and that many remain in the end, because the end is drawing near. Listening to God and not the self… And obeying God is the key. God bless take care, all. this is good ,but the ones that really submit them self to God ,could be seen by the truth that they preach not by their opinions ,if we say that we follow Christ and his father and not understand scriptures ,is this not shows that we are not part of the ones that are submit to God to me it does ,because how can you submit your selves to God on one hand and then not even understand what he says in his words to you? and if you do not fulfill the words you do not understand what are you fulfilling ? the opposition ???yes. The apostles were often confused as well. COLTER wen at the beginning or at the end (of 3.5 years)   All throughout their experience, from being chosen, throughout the 3+ years of Jesus training, then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter colter how can you establish what you say ,with what you know from scriptures , spell it out with the apostles letters and see if you make any sense in what you claiming ; or are you full of hot air ? Quote then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter Yes, the apostles were imperfect men, that can be gleaned from the gospels and from acts. The gospel of Jesus, his religion, was taught and practised three years before the cross. It was salvation by faith, by spiritual transformation for those in need of it. In the religion of Jesus God was already forgiving. The purpose of Jesus' death other then to experience what man is asked to experience, was to demonstrate his authority as he told the religious authorities of his day. Paul's Christian religion was a Pagan compromise, it was about Jesus as a human sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins. One need only acknowledged their belief that Jesus  died as a ransom, an atonement for sins. The atonement doctrine is “theoretical” salvation, the original gospel was real, faith based personal transformation, a spiritual rebirth. Colter

col

you dividing what should be united ,and so don't know what you talking about ,

religion is a men made cult for the purpose of benefit,

this is what you preach,

Jesus is not his father ,as for God he could have exterminate men long ago ,nothing there ,we are just flies over the earth ,look at the universe ,we are not even a grain of sand and I mean the earth ,

God has a plan you just mist it

[kerwin]

Luke 24:39

Quote

Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. Was Jesus a gnostic?

No; Jesus “shewed himself alive after his passion”; and thus not a ghost.

Luke 24
International Standard Version

39Look at my hands and my feet, because it’s really me. Touch me and look at me, because a ghost doesn't have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

And

Acts 1
International Standard Version

3After he had suffered, he had shown himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during a period of 40 days and telling them about the kingdom of God.

A ghost is the inward man; and therefore lacks flesh and bone. To be raised as such a spirit is no resurrection at all.

Quote

God created the heavens, then the earth, and THEN put man on the earth. Where do you read in scripture about men dwelling in heaven (the Kingdom of God)?

Where do you read in Scripture that only heaven is the Kingdom of God?

Instead Jesus asks that it come to earth as it is in heaven

Matthew 6:10
King James Version (KJV)

10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Isn’t he asking for the return of what mankind lost at the Fall?

Quote

“Spiritual flesh”? Kerwin, I believe you've been posting your unscriptural drivel for so long you've come to actually BELIEVE it. Why would you believe your own words over the words of scripture?

I see you lack vocabulary and therefore do not understand the words of Scripture. Here is a quote to aid the growth of your language skills

concordances.org reads:

Quote

4152 pneumatikós (an adjective, derived from 4151 /pneúma, “spirit”) – spiritual; relating to the realm of spirit, i.e. the invisible sphere in which the Holy Spirit imparts faith, reveals Christ, etc.

In this case the Holy Spirit imparts life to the flesh and bone body; just as it is written:

Romans 8:11
King James Version (KJV)

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Paul does not say that we are (The natural body corrupts, lacks honor,) as you say:

Scripture states and it is clear to see.

it is sown a natural body, v44

1) The body that is sown is perishable,v42
2) it is sown in dishonor,v43
3) it is sown in weakness,43

That is the 3 Characteristics of the natural body just as I wrote previously.   Some version use corruption instead of perishable.  A body that is perishable corrupts and one that is in dishonor lacks honor.

Our current body of flesh and blood is the natural body but Adam was created with a different body of flesh and bone that was imperishable, had glory, and was quickened by the Spirit of God. His first body  matched the criteria of the spiritual body.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Colter @ April 15 2012,12:27)

Quote (terraricca @ April 15 2012,05:18) Quote (Colter @ April 15 2012,04:51) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,10:49) Quote (Colter @ April 14 2012,12:45) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2012,03:33) Shimmer Quote We each have our own idea it seems on what God is , weather Jesus pre-existed, etc, but in the end, all that really matters is how we have lived our life…  And if we listen to God – and if we turned to God. God either knows us, or He doesn't. i know God is my Father and I love God. And Jesus is my help and my friend and I love Jesus. And in the end, that's all that really matters. “Return to me saith the LORD and I will return to You”. My prayer is that everyone here can stand in the day which we are in, and that many remain in the end, because the end is drawing near. Listening to God and not the self… And obeying God is the key. God bless take care, all. this is good ,but the ones that really submit them self to God ,could be seen by the truth that they preach not by their opinions ,if we say that we follow Christ and his father and not understand scriptures ,is this not shows that we are not part of the ones that are submit to God to me it does ,because how can you submit your selves to God on one hand and then not even understand what he says in his words to you? and if you do not fulfill the words you do not understand what are you fulfilling ? the opposition ???yes. The apostles were often confused as well. COLTER wen at the beginning or at the end (of 3.5 years)   All throughout their experience, from being chosen, throughout the 3+ years of Jesus training, then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter colter how can you establish what you say ,with what you know from scriptures , spell it out with the apostles letters and see if you make any sense in what you claiming ; or are you full of hot air ? Quote then after Jesus left when the gospel changed to reflect the Pagan interpretations of the people who ultimately formed the new religion about Jesus, Christianity. The apostles did the best they could in transitioning from their old religion to Jesus' religion, but a gallon cannot fit into a quart. Colter Yes, the apostles were imperfect men, that can be gleaned from the gospels and from acts. The gospel of Jesus, his religion, was taught and practised three years before the cross. It was salvation by faith, by spiritual transformation for those in need of it. In the religion of Jesus God was already forgiving. The purpose of Jesus' death other then to experience what man is asked to experience, was to demonstrate his authority as he told the religious authorities of his day. Paul's Christian religion was a Pagan compromise, it was about Jesus as a human sacrifice to atone for mankind's sins. One need only acknowledged their belief that Jesus  died as a ransom, an atonement for sins. The atonement doctrine is “theoretical” salvation, the original gospel was real, faith based personal transformation, a spiritual rebirth. Colter

Hi Colter,
Can't align yet?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 15 2012,22:26)

Pierre, Paul does not say that we are (The natural body corrupts, lacks honor,) as you say: Scripture states and it is clear to see. it is sown a natural body, v44 1) The body that is sown is perishable,v42 2) it is sown in dishonor,v43 3) it is sown in weakness,43 That is the 3 Characteristics of the natural body just as I wrote previously.   Some version use corruption instead of perishable.  A body that is perishable corrupts and one that is in dishonor lacks honor. Our current body of flesh and blood is the natural body but Adam was created with a different body of flesh and bone that was imperishable, had glory, and was quickened by the Spirit of God. His first body  matched the criteria of the spiritual body.

K

the fact that we are sinners is because we are born IN sin

the fact that we miss the glory of God it is because of our sins,

the fact that we are born as weak men is the fact that we can not do anything that can save us of the sinner condition;

this is were Paul bring us into the reborn of the new spirit that Christ as preached ,that is LEAVING OUR WAYS OF LIVING TOWARD THE INTEREST OF THE FLESH BUT RATHER LIVE FOR THE INTEREST OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD ,in this way we can free our selves of the condition of sin that is over our heads ,

in this way we can escape this world what is burning up quickly

[kerwin]

Colter,

You follow a strange teaching that is not found in Scripture; but you know that.   Adam was not an angel of any kind but instead was created a little lower than the angels.  He was without sin until he disobeyed and ate of the tree Yahweh declared would bring death.  It brought death and decay to both Adam and all creation under him; for mankind became enslaved to sin through their spirit that falls short of God’s glory.

There is no way to do all God commands with such a flawed spirit.  Jesus was sent and so came to save mankind from their flawed spirit.  An angel could not do that for it is a flaw of mankind; and not of angels.  Jesus first demonstrated that a human being could live according to the ways of the Spirit of God and then sacrificed himself so that others through faith in him could do the same.

[Spock]

Quote (kerwin @ April 15 2012,16:35)

Colter, You follow a strange teaching that is not found in Scripture; but you know that.   Adam was not an angel of any kind but instead was created a little lower than the angels.  He was without sin until he disobeyed and ate of the tree Yahweh declared would bring death.  It brought death and decay to both Adam and all creation under him; for mankind became enslaved to sin through their spirit that falls short of God’s glory. There is no way to do all God commands with such a flawed spirit.  Jesus was sent and so came to save mankind from their flawed spirit.  An angel could not do that for it is a flaw of mankind; and not of angels.  Jesus first demonstrated that a human being could live according to the ways of the Spirit of God and then sacrificed himself so that others through faith in him could do the same.

Kerwin,

The theory of inherent original sin is not part of Jesus' Gospel. Jesus made it clear that man could “go and sin no more” by the power of the rebirth of the spirit. We are surely influenced by the fallen world that we are born into but sin is to know the will of God and a deliberate choice to do otherwise.

Adam and Eve materialised on a previously populated earth, death or translation is normal for man, earth is not our permanent home. The beast was already evil, Satan was already working against the will of God on the earth. Adam and Eve were incarnate as full grown adults, they were educated and spoke the same language as the crafty beast.

If one takes and honest look at Genesis they can see that their were already people living outside the garden of Eden. Can and Able laboured and made contributions to the religious order of Adams religion.

The story of Adam and Eve was almost 40 thousands years old by the time that oral tradition was written down.

Colter

[terraricca]

col

Quote

The theory of inherent original sin is not part of Jesus' Gospel.

sorry but Christ is the reason for it

[Author]

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