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Pierre,
The work of Jesus the Son of God is not done as he still is the mediator of the new covenant. As the mediator he still must be a human being as he is mediating between his brothers and his God.
Please see that Marty made the point that those that believe are resurrected through the human being Jesus.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
Hi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
Sin entered by a man, and sin was atoned for, (and the resurrection was guaranteed), by a man. Where does that say Jesus is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
This is after the resurrection from the dead. He was still a man here:39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Correct. Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being in the body he died in. He then stayed on the earth for 40 days before being taken to heaven. So how does the fact that he was a man on earth for 40 days say he is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
When Paul was speaking in Galatians of not having received the gospel from man, he was speaking of not receiving it from any of the Apostles that preceded him, but he received it directly from Jesus Christ. He was not saying that Jesus Christ was no longer a man.
That explanation does not line up with, “I received it NOT FROM MEN, NOR ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ”.If Paul DID receive it from Christ, but DIDN'T receive it from any man, then red flares should be going off people. Is this going to be another instance where the words of scripture “don't really mean what they say”, Marty? Like with the pre-existent topic? I sure hope not.
Marty, could you do me a favor and post only ONE scripture that you believe says Jesus is still a man in heaven. Then we can examine that ONE scripture to see if what you think it says is really what it says………………or if it's just a matter of you seeing it the way you've been taught.
peace,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,00:19) So when teaching his students before his crucifiction was Jesus teaching the teachings of a man or the teachings of God. Did his students therefore receive there teaching from a man or from God who spoke through the human being Jesus?
Kerwin, if Paul was saying what you imply, then why say it at all? If what you imply is the case, then EVERYONE who has EVER heard and accepted the gospel “heard it” from God and Christ via the Holy Spirit. Because only those whom God draws can come to Jesus, right?I could say the same exact thing to you, Kerwin. “Kerwin, the scriptures that I teach on HN came not from men, nor any man, but from God through Christ”. See what I mean? ANYBODY ANYWHERE could make the same claim, which would mean that there was no reason for Paul to make that claim at all. It would have been senseless for him to say those words.
On the other hand, considering that Paul DID receive his knowledge about Christ and God's Kingdom DIRECTLY FROM Jesus when he was blinded……………he could honestly distinguish himself from all of the others who heard the gospel from the voice of a human being.
Now, add in these two facts:
1. Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
2. All human beings consist of flesh and blood.Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 03 2011,00:19) Does a human being who inherits the kiingdom of heaven become an angel or do they remain a human being?
Read Philippians 3:20-22 for the answer. They will have their lowly bodies transformed into spirit bodies like the one Jesus now has…………….since Jesus is now a life-giving spirit. So they will cease to be HUMAN beings as they are transformed into SPIRIT beings. SPIRIT beings do not have flesh and bone, according to Jesus. HUMAN beings do.peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,12:51) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
Hi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
Sin entered by a man, and sin was atoned for, (and the resurrection was guaranteed), by a man. Where does that say Jesus is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
This is after the resurrection from the dead. He was still a man here:39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Correct. Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being in the body he died in. He then stayed on the earth for 40 days before being taken to heaven. So how does the fact that he was a man on earth for 40 days say he is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
When Paul was speaking in Galatians of not having received the gospel from man, he was speaking of not receiving it from any of the Apostles that preceded him, but he received it directly from Jesus Christ. He was not saying that Jesus Christ was no longer a man.
That explanation does not line up with, “I received it NOT FROM MEN, NOR ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ”.If Paul DID receive it from Christ, but DIDN'T receive it from any man, then red flares should be going off people. Is this going to be another instance where the words of scripture “don't really mean what they say”, Marty? Like with the pre-existent topic? I sure hope not.
Marty, could you do me a favor and post only ONE scripture that you believe says Jesus is still a man in heaven. Then we can examine that ONE scripture to see if what you think it says is really what it says………………or if it's just a matter of you seeing it the way you've been taught.
peace,
mike
Mike! T here is no Scripture that says that Jesus was resurrected as a man first, and then became a Spirit Being. When He appeared to the Apostles the doors were shut, and He just appeared and disappeared without going through the door. Why would Scripture even say that the doors were shut. No other Scripture ever said so. Also if Jesus was resurrected with the same body He died in, why did Maria Magdalene not recognize Jesus…. Also those who walked with Jesus did not either, only when He broke bread did they…..1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Do you see any Scripture that says He first was a natural man again and then became a quickening Spirit?
There is none…..
In order for those who doubted that Jesus was risen from the death, He manifest Himself to show them that it was Jesus and not a Ghost……When He did appear, they thought He was a Ghost….
And also nobody seems to understand the ransom. Wants you pay that ransom, you can't take it away again, that simple would not be a ransom at all then……
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,12:51) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
Hi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
Sin entered by a man, and sin was atoned for, (and the resurrection was guaranteed), by a man. Where does that say Jesus is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
This is after the resurrection from the dead. He was still a man here:39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Correct. Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being in the body he died in. He then stayed on the earth for 40 days before being taken to heaven. So how does the fact that he was a man on earth for 40 days say he is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
When Paul was speaking in Galatians of not having received the gospel from man, he was speaking of not receiving it from any of the Apostles that preceded him, but he received it directly from Jesus Christ. He was not saying that Jesus Christ was no longer a man.
That explanation does not line up with, “I received it NOT FROM MEN, NOR ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ”.If Paul DID receive it from Christ, but DIDN'T receive it from any man, then red flares should be going off people. Is this going to be another instance where the words of scripture “don't really mean what they say”, Marty? Like with the pre-existent topic? I sure hope not.
Marty, could you do me a favor and post only ONE scripture that you believe says Jesus is still a man in heaven. Then we can examine that ONE scripture to see if what you think it says is really what it says………………or if it's just a matter of you seeing it the way you've been taught.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike:Please show me where Jesus was changed from being a man to something else.
And here you can see that Paul was speaking of not receiving the revelation from the Apostles, but rather directly from the Lord.
Quote 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
21Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
22And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
24And they glorified God in me.
And the scriptures state that Jesus is the head of the body the church, and if we are members of his body, how can he be anything else but a man. Are we not men as members of his body?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,20:51) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
Hi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
Sin entered by a man, and sin was atoned for, (and the resurrection was guaranteed), by a man. Where does that say Jesus is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
This is after the resurrection from the dead. He was still a man here:39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Correct. Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being in the body he died in. He then stayed on the earth for 40 days before being taken to heaven. So how does the fact that he was a man on earth for 40 days say he is STILL a man in heaven?Quote (942767 @ Aug. 02 2011,21:29)
When Paul was speaking in Galatians of not having received the gospel from man, he was speaking of not receiving it from any of the Apostles that preceded him, but he received it directly from Jesus Christ. He was not saying that Jesus Christ was no longer a man.
That explanation does not line up with, “I received it NOT FROM MEN, NOR ANY MAN, but from Jesus Christ”.
MikeYou should be consistent then for how does your explanation that Jesus is an angel line up with “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal 1:8
If you are going to say that “any man” means Jesus is not a man, (BTW the word “man' is not in that verse but the word “any” is), then you must also say Jesus is not an angel because Paul says they were not to recieve the gospel that is preached by an angel!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 05 2011,04:30) Mike Is Jesus still the Son of Man? If so please explain how if he is an angel!
WJ
Keith,You are correct. Jesus is still the Son of Man. But He is glorified Man and not Man as we now know Man to be. He no longer has the body of flesh He possessed after His resurrection. He was changed when He ascended to heaven.
Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 05 2011,04:30) Mike Is Jesus still the Son of Man? If so please explain how if he is an angel!
WJ
Keith,Mike is so inconsistent it's not even funny. He has said that Jesus as God's “begotten” is distinguished from the angels and mankind.
We have never known Mike to maintain consistency in his theology. This is why he never persuades anyone.
Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 04 2011,11:29) …………Paul says they were not to recieve the gospel that is preached by an angel!
Hi Keith,Another year older but still just as ignorant.
I've already explained this to you in one of my many posts you've been ignoring lately.Paul does NOT say they were not to receive gospel from an angel. He says that if anybody, EVEN AN ANGEL, tries to teach a DIFFERENT gospel then theirs, don't accept it.
John received his revelation from an angel, didn't he?
This has nothing to do with the question of the thread anyway, MR. STAY ON TOPIC!
I've asked Marty, and now I'll ask you all:
Please post ONE SINGLE scripture that you think says Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven……………and let's discuss if it REALLY says that or not.
I've already excluded 1 Tim 2:5 as proof in my OP. Plus I've listed there many other scriptures that EXPLICITELY say Jesus is no longer a human being.
So………………..what else ya got? Put up or shut up. Show me a scripture that EXPLICITELY says Jesus Christ is still a human being in heaven.
And while you're at it, consider these two FACTS:
1. ALL human beings consist of flesh and blood.
2. Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit God's Kingdom.
peace,
mikeQuote (942767 @ Aug. 04 2011,09:42) Hi Mike: Please show me where Jesus was changed from being a man to something else.
Marty,Scripture doesn't record the transformation Jesus underwent as he ascended into heaven. But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Read Phil 3:20-22 Marty. Paul also hopes to have his lowly body TRANSFORMED into a glorious new spiritual body like the one Jesus has. If Paul's will be TRANSFORMED, and Jesus WAS FLESH, but cannot be anymore, then we must read between the lines and accept that his body was also TRANSFORMED between the time he left the view of the disciples and the time he entered into God's Kingdom. For shortly thereafter, Stephen saw him there at the right hand of his God.
Btw, I await a “Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven” scripture from you.
peace,
mikeQuote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,07:43)
Mike! T here is no Scripture that says that Jesus was resurrected as a man first, and then became a Spirit Being.
Yes Irene, there is. You just won't accept it.Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”Irene, either Jesus was NOT a spirit at this time, or he lied to his own disciples.
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,07:43)
When He appeared to the Apostles the doors were shut, and He just appeared and disappeared without going through the door.
Irene, was Jesus a spirit when he walked on water? How about when he fed the 5000 from a couple loaves and fishes? Or when he raised Lazarus? No. He was a human being during all those events and many more. What is harder: For God to get Jesus through a locked door, or for God to raise the dead to life through him?If he was a human being when he walked on water, then he could also have been a human being when he showed up on the inside of locked doors.
Disagree if you want, but please don't use the “locked doors” thing anymore to “prove” he was a spirit at the time he explicitly said he was NOT. For it proves nothing of the sort.
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,07:43)
And also nobody seems to understand the ransom. Wants you pay that ransom, you can't take it away again, that simple would not be a ransom at all then……
By your understanding of “ransom”, Jesus would have had to remain dead. For it is his LIFE he gave as a ransom. So, according to you, when he received his life back, he forfeited the ransom. Does that sound right to you?peace and love,
mikeMike,
you said:Quote But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. His blood was poured out at Calvary.
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”Kathi
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2011,00:25) Pierre, The work of Jesus the Son of God is not done as he still is the mediator of the new covenant. As the mediator he still must be a human being as he is mediating between his brothers and his God.
Please see that Marty made the point that those that believe are resurrected through the human being Jesus.
kERWINread this very slowly;
Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.and now where is Christ that he send his angel to John ?
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,22:06) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 04 2011,09:42) Hi Mike: Please show me where Jesus was changed from being a man to something else.
Marty,Scripture doesn't record the transformation Jesus underwent as he ascended into heaven. But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Read Phil 3:20-22 Marty. Paul also hopes to have his lowly body TRANSFORMED into a glorious new spiritual body like the one Jesus has. If Paul's will be TRANSFORMED, and Jesus WAS FLESH, but cannot be anymore, then we must read between the lines and accept that his body was also TRANSFORMED between the time he left the view of the disciples and the time he entered into God's Kingdom. For shortly thereafter, Stephen saw him there at the right hand of his God.
Btw, I await a “Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven” scripture from you.
peace,
mike
Mikethat scripture is after he has been resurrected and appears to his disciples
so you do not have a scripture do you ?
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2011,22:26) Mike,
you said:Quote But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Flesh and bones, not flesh and blood. His blood was poured out at Calvary.
Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”Kathi
I imagine Jesus was raised with blood in his veins, Kathi. He would have been as pale as a ghost without it.But let's just stick to “flesh” then. “Flesh” cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and Jesus had “flesh” after he was raised from the dead. At some point, that “flesh” body must have been transformed, or he would not be in God's Kingdom right now, ruling over heaven and earth.
peace,
mikeHi Pierre,
WHAT?
I have no clue what you are saying, or what you want to teach me with those scriptures.peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2011,22:44) Hi Pierre, WHAT?
I have no clue what you are saying, or what you want to teach me with those scriptures.peace,
mike
Mikei think that, that scripture only testify that it was Christ ,but was it the real body ? because they never recognized him each time that he appear to them ,
but would this be a glorious resurrection in a glorious body ?if he resurrected in the old body he sacrificed ? as atonement for us all
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2011,10:29) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2011,00:25) Pierre, The work of Jesus the Son of God is not done as he still is the mediator of the new covenant. As the mediator he still must be a human being as he is mediating between his brothers and his God.
Please see that Marty made the point that those that believe are resurrected through the human being Jesus.
kERWINread this very slowly;
Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.and now where is Christ that he send his angel to John ?
Pierre
Pierre,Are all bodies the same in heaven?
Mike,
You wrote to Marty that:
Quote Scripture doesn't record the transformation Jesus underwent as he ascended into heaven. But he left the earth as flesh and blood, and we know those things cannot inherit God's Kingdom. I want to point out to you that scripture does not record angels tranforming either.
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