Is Jesus still a man in heaven?

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
ONE flock.
Christ is not divided.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,11:22)

Hi MB, We follow a man. We will be like to him when we are taken up. What will we be?

We will be a “spiritual anthrOpos” not a “spiritual adam” according to 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 at least.

If adam is the word for man, then is it also true that Jesus is the adam from heaven? Let's look at the word “Adam”.

The name, “Adam”, comes from two parts, “a” is Aleph – the first letter, (like alpha is in the Greek) and according to Strongs Concordance, the Hebrew word “dam” means “blood”.

So Adam could be rendered as first blood and then his blood is passed onto his offspring who are called 'adam/man'.

This opens up the idea that Jesus in Heaven is not a spiritual adam because that might mean that he has the same blood in heaven, the blood that he spilled for us and that would mean that flesh and blood might be able to enter the Kingdom of God.

He certainly is “spiritual anthrOpos” and so can we be according to 1 Corinthians 15:45-49, but I would say that we are not going to take our blood with us to heaven. So obviously spiritual anthrOpos can enter the Kingdom of God meaning that the word anthrOpos may well mean something very different to adam and if so, we need to clarify what we really mean when we say that Jesus is the heavenly man or man from heaven.

It is possible that both yourself Nick and Mike believe the same thing, but are using scriptures that talk about 'anthrOpos' against those that talk about 'adam'.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,19:54)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2012,12:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,19:34) Hi T, Christ is not divided. Nick and this would this mean Christ is divided LK 12:32 “ Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. JN 10:16 “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. now understand Phl;3-14;15 two calls one for heaven one for the earth (the meek) Hi T, No the other sheep are found in the sheep and goat judgement. They add to the flock of the saved. No special bonuses. That is JW tripe imo

Nick

What you are saying is

One flock all for heaven ?
Two flocks all for heaven ??
One flock all for heaven and other sheep in the second resurrection ??

Or

Pierre

[Marlin1]

Just maybe we should define man.  I believe there is scripture that states man will be in heaven.  Is that going to be the same flesh we have now, of course not.  Here is a scripture that John speaks of.

REV 5:2 † And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3     †     And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4     †     And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

It speaks of man in heaven and earth, no man is able to take the book, none except the man, Jesus Christ.  He is able to take the book and loose the seven seals.

Just a thought

Marlin

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
All who are in Christ.
One flock

[Wakeup]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2012,13:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,11:22) Hi MB, We follow a man. We will be like to him when we are taken up. What will we be? We will be a “spiritual anthrOpos” not a “spiritual adam” according to 1 Corinthians 15:45-49 at least. If adam is the word for man, then is it also true that Jesus is the adam from heaven? Let's look at the word “Adam”. The name, “Adam”, comes from two parts, “a” is Aleph – the first letter, (like alpha is in the Greek) and according to Strongs Concordance, the Hebrew word “dam” means “blood”. So Adam could be rendered as first blood and then his blood is passed onto his offspring who are called 'adam/man'. This opens up the idea that Jesus in Heaven is not a spiritual adam because that might mean that he has the same blood in heaven, the blood that he spilled for us and that would mean that flesh and blood might be able to enter the Kingdom of God. He certainly is “spiritual anthrOpos” and so can we be according to 1 Corinthians 15:45-49, but I would say that we are not going to take our blood with us to heaven. So obviously spiritual anthrOpos can enter the Kingdom of God meaning that the word anthrOpos may well mean something very different to adam and if so, we need to clarify what we really mean when we say that Jesus is the heavenly man or man from heaven. It is possible that both yourself Nick and Mike believe the same thing, but are using scriptures that talk about 'anthrOpos' against those that talk about 'adam'.

T8.

Adam was the first man in the flesh.

Jesus is the first man in spirit,He is the first resurrected in spirit,amongst his bretheren.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,22:36)

Hi T, All who are in Christ. One flock

Nick

True,but there are two places to go one in heaven one on earth,

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
That is human doctrine.
Show us the bible truth

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 09 2012,15:49)

T8. Adam was the first man in the flesh. Jesus is the first man in spirit,He is the first resurrected in spirit,amongst his bretheren. wakeup.

So is Jesus a man in Heaven?
Yes, if you view that as a spiritual man.
No, if you view that as a physical man.

This is the real point I am making.

Adam was created a physical being and his offspring are called adam.

Is there a scripture that says that Jesus is adam in Heaven. I don't think so because he is spiritual and flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

My guess is that there is a difference between the 2 words that our bibles translate as man/mankind/human which seem the same to us. Is Jesus in glory ever known as a man/adam.

And yes he is the second Adam. The second Adam is a life giving spirit, not like the first man, so my guess is that Jesus is not a man in Heaven if you take that to mean man/adam.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,22:36)

Hi T, All who are in Christ. One flock

Nick

two penns one flock

Pierre

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Christ is not divided.
The Spirit is not divided.

One flock
Men add

1cor 12.25
1cor 1.10-13
1cor 11.18

[Wakeup]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 09 2012,18:09)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 09 2012,15:49) T8. Adam was the first man in the flesh. Jesus is the first man in spirit,He is the first resurrected in spirit,amongst his bretheren. wakeup. So is Jesus a man in Heaven? Yes, if you view that as a spiritual man. No, if you view that as a physical man. This is the real point I am making. Adam was created a physical being and his offspring are called adam. Is there a scripture that says that Jesus is adam in Heaven. I don't think so because he is spiritual and flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. My guess is that there is a difference between the 2 words that our bibles translate as man/mankind/human which seem the same to us. Is Jesus in glory ever known as a man/adam. And yes he is the second Adam. The second Adam is a life giving spirit, not like the first man, so my guess is that Jesus is not a man in Heaven if you take that to mean man/adam.

T8.

Once resurrected,allways spirit,forever.
in the end all flesh will not exist anymore;its past.Gone,history.

Once we are resurrected all is ours; heaven and earth.
earth will be as heaven.we inherit all.

There is no such as any kind of flesh in heaven.

The flesh is only used for the pain and suffering and death.
For the learning of rejecting all evil,and experiencing,of sin.
For the cleansing from the inside out: then that flesh will be no more for ever and ever.

To learn about good and evil we must be of the flesh; to feel the consequences,the the pain the suffering,and to learn that only the creator we must follow to have peace and joy,and love.

A spirit body can not have pain,and sickness,and death.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Flesh is of the dust of earth.[Gen]
New bodies are heavenly.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,01:41)

Hi T, Christ is not divided. The Spirit is not divided. One flock Men add 1cor 12.25 1cor 1.10-13 1cor 11.18

Nick

is God divided because he created angels and man ?no

Jn 10:14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—
Jn 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jn 10:16. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Mt 5:3 “Blessed are the poor(humble) in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
Mt 5:6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Mt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Mt 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Mt 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
in this sermon how many verse are addressed to the 144k

and who are the ones that Christ says the are from another PEN and will be called in latter ?

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
Mt 10:6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Christ came for the nation of Israel and his disciples did just that until after the Pentecost wen Peter was called to Cornelius the gentile,

but this was to fill the numbers to be filled for the 144k
Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

this is why Paul make a comment that not all feel the call for heaven;

Phil 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
Phil 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things.
And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.

this call is no different and in no way would it divide God or Christ same spirit ALL HIS OF GOD,

1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits (144K); then, when he comes (start of the 1000 year), those who belong to him.(great crowed in first resurrection)
1Co 15:24 Then the end will come(second resurrection), when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.(thrown dead into the lake of fire)

ALL SHEEP ARE CALLED BY THE SAME SPIRIT AND FOR THE SAME REWARD LIVE.BUT A FEW HAVE A BETTER RESURRECTION,
1Co 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
1Co 12:30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues ? Do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

1Co 1:2 To the church of God(144k,only) in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Pierre

[NickHassan]

Hi t8,
Yahshua usually referred to himself as the Son of Man[adam]
He highlighted his human origins.
One of us.

That includes when he spoke of the final days

Mt25.31
” When the Son of man comes in his glory… The King will…”

Paul discussed the nature of bodies distinguishing FLESH from glorious powerful heavenly bodies in 1Cor 15 36f

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 08 2012,22:31)

REV 5:2 † And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 † And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 † And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Hi Marlin,

The KJV translates as “no man”, but it is the Greek word “oudeis”, which really means “no one” – which is how the rest of the translations render it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2012,10:55)

Hi t8, Yahshua usually referred to himself as the Son of Man[adam] He highlighted his human origins.

His origins are from ancient days – even from Micah's time frame. (Micah 5:2)

Surely Jesus didn't begin to exist when he was born of Mary.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2012,19:12)

Hi MB, Sounds like JW stuff. Two options?? The meek shall inherit the earth

I wouldn't know, Nick – I'm not a JW. Nor would it have any bearing on whether or not what I said was scriptural.

We can't just say, “That sounds like something a Chinese person would say”, as if that comment would somehow lessen the validity of the statement. But people here do it all the time with the JWs for some odd reason.

What I do know is that the meek will inherit the earth, while people like Paul will have their citizenship in heaven. (Phil 3:20)

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,

Note Paul said OUR citizenship is in heaven…. and that is where it is writ.
Does Paul have some eternal advantage over you?
Are you going second class??

[mikeboll64]

Paul always spoke to the congregations with the assumption that all were of the elect class.

Some of those who read his words fell away from the truth at a later time, and fell into the teachings of other so-called apostles.

But that didn't stop Paul from writing as if everyone who would ever read his words were of the elect.

We know that is not true, however. Paul was trying not to divide, but instead to ensure that all were entitled to the same as he was.

Here is an example that concerns Paul alone, and not “our”:
Philippians 3:14
I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

So, if Paul was right about himself, he is (will be) dwelling in heaven. Yet we know that the meek will inherit the earth, right?

Two classes, just like Pierre tried to tell you.

[Author]

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