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No,
because “heaven” or “heavens” is symbolic of a position granted by God, not literally somewhere in the sky, and certainly not God's righteous abode, where only those incapable of sin dwell.
Isaiah 14:12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations. 13 And thou saidst in thy heart: the heavens I go up, Above stars of God I raise my throne, And I sit in the mount of meeting in the sides of the north. 14 I go up above the heights of a thick cloud, I am like to the Most High.
The King of Babylon, who was worshiped as a false god, like the son of the dawn, or rather the planet Venus, did not literally dwell in the sky and then be cut down to earth. Heavens is symbolic of the King's high position with all his power and authority, and as well, a representation of the kings heart who thought highly of himself. The king didn't literally fall from earth, but God did destroy his power and authority, and attempt to humble his lofty heart.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 05 2012,11:30) No, because “heaven” or “heavens” is symbolic of a position granted by God, not literally somewhere in the sky, and certainly not God's righteous abode, where only those incapable of sin dwell.
If that's the case, then why did the disciples watch Jesus ascending back to heaven? Why the ascension if heaven is just a position granted by God?My dear Brother Pierre,
Quote John 20:17, but the same day he went to see his disciple closed up in the upper room ,he came trough the wall,and it is only few day perups 8 days wen he saw them back with the missing disciple now present,and that they touch him ,so he must have gone up some time in between 
Or did he go and came back within the few hours on that day ?
What you think??
Pierre
It really doesn't matter what each of us thinks, does it. It is only what God thinks that matters.
I believe the scripture.In v17 the morning, He says touch me not. Then in v19 the evening, He tells His disciples to touch Him.
I do not believed He lied and I do believe He ascended to His Father and then returned.I may as well touch on Mike's question too. It was not because it was her time of month, for He says “because I have not ascended YET”
Mike your other question, I will address in a separate post.
God Bless
MarlinBrothers,
I have this question :at what time does someone become born again ?
————–
And when does someone become “born again”? Was John born again on earth, and therefore was no longer a human being, but a spirit being?Brothers, I have no idea what your teaching is on this is, but I will give you what the bible teaches.
1. Unless you are born again, you can not even see (UNDERSTAND) the kingdom of God.
JOHN 3:3 † Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
2. You have to be born of flesh and of Spirit to see the enter the kingdom.
JOHN 3:5 † Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3. You must be born of incorruptible seed.
I PETER 1:23 † Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
4. Now, how to be born again. You must have a true revelation of Christ and then you will understand this.
ACTS 2:38 † Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. And when did this STOP.
ACTS 2:39 † For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
As long as God is calling the Door is OPEN and the gift is available to those that truly seek the truth.
Mike, John was most certainly born again and he was still human.
Pierre,
After the above, You become born again when God accepts your faith.
It is not WHEN you believe as some teach, it is SINCE you believed and keep on believing untell you receive the Holy Ghost, as the scripture states.God Bless
MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 06 2012,14:50) My dear Brother Pierre, Quote John 20:17, but the same day he went to see his disciple closed up in the upper room ,he came trough the wall,and it is only few day perups 8 days wen he saw them back with the missing disciple now present,and that they touch him ,so he must have gone up some time in between Or did he go and came back within the few hours on that day ?
What you think??
Pierre
It really doesn't matter what each of us thinks, does it. It is only what God thinks that matters.
I believe the scripture.In v17 the morning, He says touch me not. Then in v19 the evening, He tells His disciples to touch Him.
I do not believed He lied and I do believe He ascended to His Father and then returned.I may as well touch on Mike's question too. It was not because it was her time of month, for He says “because I have not ascended YET”
Mike your other question, I will address in a separate post.
God Bless
Marlin
Marlin1really
?Mt 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
Mt 28:2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
Mt 28:3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
Mt 28:4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
Mt 28:5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.
Mt 28:6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
Mt 28:7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”
Mt 28:8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
Mt 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them.“Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Mt 28:10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”Mk 16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
Mk 16:10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping.
Mk 16:11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
Mk 16:12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country.
Mk 16:13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.
Mk 16:14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.Lk 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.
Lk 24:2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb,
Lk 24:3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
Lk 24:4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them.
Lk 24:5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead?
Lk 24:6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee:
Lk 24:7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”
Lk 24:8 Then they remembered his words.
Lk 24:9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
Lk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.Jn 20:11 but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb
Jn 20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
Jn 20:13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.”
Jn 20:14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
Jn 20:15 “Woman,” he said, “why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
Jn 20:16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher).
Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”
Jn 20:18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to herREALLY THOMAS
?Jn 20:26 A WEEK LATER his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
Jn 20:19On the evening of that first day of the week , when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
YOU NOT EVEN READ SCRIPTURES WHY THEN SHOULD YOU BELIEVE THEM
Pierre
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 05 2012,15:11) Mike, John was most certainly born again and he was still human.
So the resurrection will be the THIRD TIME John is born, and not the second?And John was a spirit being while on earth………..like an angel?
Marlin1
Quote 1. Unless you are born again, you can not even see (UNDERSTAND) the kingdom of God. why do you say that SEE = understanding is that because your miss understanding
did Steven when he was stoned and sew the the kingdom did he see it,?? and wen ?Pierre
Pierre, Your quotes change nothing, I didn't come here to argue with you or Mike. I stated the truth and the scriptures and you choose not to believe. That is your choice and your doctrine. I believe you don't even believe that you can receive the Spirit of Christ while here on the earth. If I have that wrong, please correct me. Without the Spirit in you, you can never understand,(SEE) scripture correctly.
God Bless
MarlinHi Nick,
I disagree in that some don't taste death at all, but are changed in the twinking of an eye, taken up to heaven, and wait under the alter asking God, “How long until our blood is avenged?”
I don't believe that everyone who dies goes right to heaven, but I do believe that some of those killed directly for refusing to deny our Lord and his God do.
That is why there are some who don't taste death at all.
Mark 9:1
And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.”Revelation 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.Are these teachings not “biblical”, Nick?
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 06 2012,18:00) Pierre, Your quotes change nothing, I didn't come here to argue with you or Mike. I stated the truth and the scriptures and you choose not to believe. That is your choice and your doctrine. I believe you don't even believe that you can receive the Spirit of Christ while here on the earth. If I have that wrong, please correct me. Without the Spirit in you, you can never understand,(SEE) scripture correctly. God Bless
Marlin
Marlinif you have truth I am sure I would one of those to see it ,but if you cannot justify your truth and understanding in scriptures then they are only your OPINIONS and this is very different of UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURES, looks more as a Pharisees,doctors of the law,talk ,talk, but no understanding.
and there are no choices in doctrines from scriptures you are only either right or wrong,
if someone can trough the scriptures receive the understanding this is true,but it is the understanding what is in harmony with the total books of scriptures,if you are outside you have been deceived ,
Quote Without the Spirit in you, you can never understand,(SEE) scripture correctly. first God can not bless you if you do not have anything ;this is true,so TO HAVE SOMETHING MEANS THAT YOU SEARCH HIM IN THE SCRIPTURES (HIS WORDS NOT YOURS )
THEN TROUGH HIS SPIRIT LIKE THE WIND COMES AND GOES HE WILL GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING BUT ONLY IF YOU FILL THE SECOND RULE;YOU HAVE TO LOVE HIM AND HIS SON ;NOW IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEAN ;TO LOVE HIM AND HIS SON ,THEN ,THEN MAY GOD BLESS YOU,
Pierre
Hi MB,
There are two meanings of LIFE and two of DEATH.
The second death they would never tasteIs UNDER THE ALTAR in heaven?
Hi MB,
So Rev 4 speaks of showing WHAT MUST HAPPEN-the future.Do you have any true evidence men are IN HEAVEN?
Will they have to return to earth for the judgement??
“The meek shall inherit the earth”
Are we going to have the discussion here………….. or in the other thread? Make up your mind, Nick.
I can only keep up with so many threads.I never said they were “men”, as I believe no man can be in the spiritual realm of heaven. Men are of flesh, and flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which is currently in heaven. (1 Cor 15:50, John 18:36)
They are recorded by John as “souls” of those who were slain for refusing to deny the gospel of Christ and his God. They asked “How long?”, and were told to wait until more of them were KILLED as they had been.
These are the souls of human beings who were KILLED on earth, Nick. At least that's how I understand it.
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