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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 03 2012,15:10) Hi MB,
Indeed flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
We need to be clothed with the new heavenly body, following the saviour.
We do not yet know what we will be like but we will be alike to him with whom we should have become one in Spirit.
Agreed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2012,15:10) Hi MB,
Indeed flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
We need to be clothed with the new heavenly body, following the saviour.
We do not yet know what we will be like but we will be alike to him with whom we should have become one in Spirit.
NickI agree ,but this is only to apply to the ones that are redeemed from the earth is it not ??
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2012,09:25) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 31 2012,21:06) I do not believe in “spirit beings” such a compound is not found in scripture.
Hi Jody,It wasn't my post you were answering, but, since you brought it up:
Luke 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a spirit.
Jody, to what does the word “spirit” in the above verse refer? A spirit BEING?
Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, and James, and John his brother, and doth bring them up to a high mount by themselves, 2 and he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his garments did become white as the light, 3 and lo, appear to them did Moses and Elijah, talking together with him. 4 And Peter answering said to Jesus, `Sir, it is good to us to be here; if thou wilt, we may make here three booths — for thee one, and for Moses one, and one for Elijah.' 5 While he is yet speaking, lo, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and lo, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son, — the Beloved, in whom I did delight; hear him.' 6 And the disciples having heard, did fall upon their face, and were exceedingly afraid, 7 and Jesus having come near, touched them, and said, `Rise, be not afraid,' 8 and having lifted up their eyes, they saw no one, except Jesus only. 9 And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'Luke 24:37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a spirit.
Elijah was dead and so was Moses, yet they appeared to the disciples an talked. God had created a vision of them, he took the spirit of them and made them appear and talk. The disciples had thought that God had done the same with Jesus, however Jesus showed them that he was not a spirit but a real person. As Jesus said in Matthew 17, “till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.
Makes sense to me dude!!
Yes, but that doesn't answer the question. To what does the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37 refer? To a spirit BEING?
In other words, what did the disciples THINK they were seeing before Jesus said he was not that?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2012,14:06) Yes, but that doesn't answer the question. To what does the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37 refer? To a spirit BEING? In other words, what did the disciples THINK they were seeing before Jesus said he was not that?
What they were seeing was lying vanities. You dont see with your 5 senses you only see with the spirit mind. Think of it this way when Jesus appeared in glory (before he went to calvary) with Moses and Elijah, Now remember this was before he went to calvary where was he when they saw him? How did they see him? See you cant see with your 5 senses you are observing lying vantities. Paul said they that observe lying vanties forsake their won mercy. see you must understand that the carnal mind cant understand God, never has and never will only God (THE REVEALATION OF JESUS CHRIST) can be understood by the Spirit Mind. To be carnally minded is DEATH, BUT TO BE SPIRITUALLY MINDED IS LIFE.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2012,14:06) Yes, but that doesn't answer the question. To what does the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37 refer? To a spirit BEING? In other words, what did the disciples THINK they were seeing before Jesus said he was not that?
Oh, darn it, I thought it did.They thought they saw a vision.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
The spirits of men, return to God, however God can use those spirits to create visions.
Who is to say that what the disciples “thought” was something that actually existed, were they all knowing? False beliefs and ideas of ghosts, spirits, gods and demi-gods were pervasive among both Jew and Gentiles at that time.
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
WHY DO THEY DOUBT that he is not what he actually is? Regardless of whether or not the spirit they are talking about was something that existed exactly as they believed it did, the problem is that they didn't believe that Jesus was raised from the dead as flesh and bones, as a true human being!
The disciples doubted the promise, that the Christ would be an immortal, true, human being of flesh and bones. They doubted the promise that God gave to David, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, the anointed would sit on the eternal throne.
Bummer Mike, for it appears that you also want to make Jesus into some sort of spirit, and cannot accept his resurrected glory of flesh and bones.
Most people try to put God in a box of intelligentual thinking. Well my friends you cant put God in a obx, you cant even see or comprehend God with you carnal mind, you have to have the spirit mind to comprehend God. I marvel at how the carnal mind tries to describe God and the sirit, it cant even get a glimpse of God. THE REVEALATION OF JESUS CHRIST THAT GOD GAVE UNTO HIM 9JESUS CHRIST) God has to be revealed unto you for you to understand and or see him.Can you understand this? The bible tells us thaat they wrestle the scriptures to their own destruction ever learning and never coming to the truth. Dont try to figure out God, but let him reveal himself to you.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 04 2012,15:23)
Psalms 8:5
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor.In other words, made Him flesh
Hebrews 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.Again, He was made flesh first. That seed, of necessity, being human
1 Peter 3:22
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; ANGELS and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.Now He is higher than the angels.
2 Peter 2:11
Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.And angels, which are spirit beings, are indeed mightier than flesh, Do you suppose Jesus would be resurrected in a flesh body, to stay forever lesser than the angels, which are spirit bodied, spirit being greater than flesh? That would mean, that no matter how one looked at it, even with God commanding His angels to worship His Son, when all is said and done, it would only be the TITLE that made Jesus greater than the angels…which of course means, that in reality, the angels are mightier than their own God IF Jesus were still but flesh. That is just silly. Jesus is NOT flesh, He is SPIRIT.
Psalms 104:4
Who maketh his ANGELS spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:Hebrews 1:7
And of the ANGELS he saith, Who maketh his ANGELS spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.Since spirit is greater than flesh, of which the angels are, would it not be an insult to deny Jesus that reward also? Again, how can Jesus now be greater if He is still flesh?
Mark 12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the ANGELS which are in heaven.Some might say this is merely speaking of marriage/copulation, as the angels etc…
Luke 20:36
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.But this should dispel any doubt. To be EQUAL with, means to be the SAME. Angels are SPIRIT…exactly what the resurrected will be changed into.
Remember Sodom & Gomorrah?
The angels appeared as flesh.
But they were really spirit beings.
Spirit can transfigure into flesh at will.
Flesh is lesser than spirit.
It is no great feat for them to do this.Jesus showed Himself as flesh so the apostles could see Him, otherwise they would only have heard a voice… And IF He showed Himself in His true form, they would have supposed He were a ghost, which would have led to a zillion other false doctrines…
And besides, since spirit can not be wounded by mortal means, IF Jesus showed Himself in His true state, there would NOT have been any wounds to see anyway…spirit can not be wounded by mortal means, so to prove it indeed was Himself the apostles were seeing, Jesus showed Himself in the flesh, His wounds being the evidence…
IF He showed Himself with NO wounds…then imagine the cry…”See, it wasn't really Jesus on the cross after all (as that false doctrine goes) but it was His twin, or an imposter on the cross..etc…NO, Jesus was showing Himself “wounded” as a WITNESS.Remember Jesus said “Put your HAND into My side”…
That means that the wound was still OPEN…not sown shut, or scarred over, but OPEN, like His other wounds….so where was the blood?
Please don't say that His blood is SPIRIT blood like that silly American doctrine…
WHY would God give HIS SON Spirit blood, which is mightier than flesh, but deny Him a spirit body also, which is mightier than flesh? That's only a 50% reward….a half finished change…no, doesn't fit with scripture im afraid.Is Satan spirit or flesh?
he is spirit.
So, by your reckoning, Satan is greater than Jesus too since Jesus is just mere flesh.I could give many more examples….do i need to? Wouldn't logic intervene when all the facts are honestly examined and weighed?
Leave behind this church based doctrine that says Jesus is just flesh…it is a lie and dishonors His Name.Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 04 2012,05:28) And angels, which are spirit beings, are indeed mightier than flesh, Do you suppose Jesus would be resurrected in a flesh body, to stay forever lesser than the angels, which are spirit bodied, spirit being greater than flesh? Since spirit is greater than flesh, of which the angels are, would it not be an insult to deny Jesus that reward also? Again, how can Jesus now be greater if He is still flesh?
Is Satan spirit or flesh?
he is spirit.
So, by your reckoning, Satan is greater than Jesus too since Jesus is just mere flesh.
All good points, Devolution. And the way I see it also. How can Jesus be anything less than the angels he is now the King and Lord over?Also, flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom. And since Jesus now rules that Kingdom in the strength and name of his God, I assume he has inherited it.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 03 2012,22:23) Bummer Mike, for it appears that you also want to make Jesus into some sort of spirit, and cannot accept his resurrected glory of flesh and bones.
Actually Jody,It is a bummer that you don't believe the words of scripture:
1 Cor 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.Jody, you said there was no such compound as “spirit being” in scripture. There is also no such compound as “human being” in scripture.
But to say “David is human” is to say “David is a human being”. The “being” part is implied.
What I was trying to show you is that when the disciples thought they were seeing a “spirit” in Luke 24:37, it is implied that they thought they were seeing a spirit BEING.
It is the same here:
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.The “evil spirits” mentioned are evil spirit BEINGS, as THEY are also called “demons”, which we know are fallen angels.
So again, though the Greek word is “spirits”, the implication is “spirit beings”.
That is what I was trying to show you.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2012,07:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 03 2012,13:23) Hi,
Jesus is yet a man with a glorified body and one with His Father in Spirit in heaven while yet sharing that Spirit on earth with his brothers.
The Spirit transcends such boundaries and gives hope to his followers that when the earth is burned up they too yet live.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father…………Paul says Jesus is not a man, Nick. Paul says that Jesus became a life-giving spirit (1 Cor 15:45). Jesus says that spirits don't have flesh and bone, and Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which is now in heaven.
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul in no way was declaring that Jesus was not a man! Paul was saying that he was ordained an Apostle through God, of whom Jesus Christ is a mediator.
Acts 13:29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Paul teaches that Jesus is a MAN, an Apostle and High Priest of God, who sits at God’s right hand. When Christ speaks he speaks through the Spirit of the Father, not through the spirit of men.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 04 2012,10:23) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, Jody, this is the only scripture that you “Jesus is still a human being in heaven” people have, to my knowledge. But let's look at the sentence all together:
1 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.As I explained in my OP, this scripture could be understood one of two different ways, as it is clear to all that Jesus WAS in fact a man when he gave himself as a ransom:
1. The mediator is STILL a man.
2. The man who gave himself as a ransom is NOW the mediator between men and God.Which understanding fits better with Galatians 1:1, 11, 1 Cor 15:45, 50 and 2 Cor 3:17?
In those, there is no guess work like there is in 1 Tim 2. In those, it is CLEARLY spelled out that Jesus is now a spirit being.
Blessing Brothers and Sisters,
I am totally amazed at all the opinions here. Does everyone understand that there is only one of them CORRECT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the rest are just cannon fodder..
#1
Mike, You premise is that Jesus was raised in His same body and then changed on His way to heaven. Don't you know, He had already been to heaven.JOHN 20:17 † Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Before Jesus ascension to heaven, He could not be touched.
Yet He tells His disciples to touch Him, He had already been to heaven.
#2
Every born again person is a SPIRITUAL being.JOHN 3:6 † That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 † Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 † The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.God Bless
MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 05 2012,23:35) Blessing Brothers and Sisters, I am totally amazed at all the opinions here. Does everyone understand that there is only one of them CORRECT.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the rest are just cannon fodder..
#1
Mike, You premise is that Jesus was raised in His same body and then changed on His way to heaven. Don't you know, He had already been to heaven.JOHN 20:17 † Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Before Jesus ascension to heaven, He could not be touched.
Yet He tells His disciples to touch Him, He had already been to heaven.
#2
Every born again person is a SPIRITUAL being.JOHN 3:6 † That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 † Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 † The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.God Bless
Marlin
MarlinJohn 20:17, but the same day he went to see his disciple closed up in the upper room ,he came trough the wall,and it is only few day perups 8 days wen he saw them back with the missing disciple now present,and that they touch him ,so he must have gone up some time in between
Or did he go and came back within the few hours on that day ?
What you think??
Pierre
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 04 2012,23:35)
#1
Mike, You premise is that Jesus was raised in His same body and then changed on His way to heaven. Don't you know, He had already been to heaven.JOHN 20:17 † Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Before Jesus ascension to heaven, He could not be touched.
Yet He tells His disciples to touch Him, He had already been to heaven.
Perhaps Mary was having her time of the month, which made her unclean, and that's why she was not allowed to touch Jesus before he presented himself as purified to his Father.There is no scriptural indication that Jesus went to heaven before the disciples saw him ascend to there.
I do find it interesting that you will use a verse that tells of our God and Jesus' God being the same God when you insist that Jesus IS that God.
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 04 2012,23:35)
#2
Every born again person is a SPIRITUAL being.JOHN 3:6 † That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And when does someone become “born again”? Was John born again on earth, and therefore was no longer a human being, but a spirit being?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2012,00:34) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 03 2012,22:23) Bummer Mike, for it appears that you also want to make Jesus into some sort of spirit, and cannot accept his resurrected glory of flesh and bones.
Actually Jody,It is a bummer that you don't believe the words of scripture:
1 Cor 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.Jody, you said there was no such compound as “spirit being” in scripture. There is also no such compound as “human being” in scripture.
But to say “David is human” is to say “David is a human being”. The “being” part is implied.
What I was trying to show you is that when the disciples thought they were seeing a “spirit” in Luke 24:37, it is implied that they thought they were seeing a spirit BEING.
It is the same here:
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs.The “evil spirits” mentioned are evil spirit BEINGS, as THEY are also called “demons”, which we know are fallen angels.
So again, though the Greek word is “spirits”, the implication is “spirit beings”.
That is what I was trying to show you.
Mike,Good point on spirit beings, verses human beings and how it is implied. That was a lame point on my part, thanks!
I do not believe in fallen angels! We are to become like the messengers in the resurrection, “no longer able to die anymore”. The reason why we will not be able to die anymore is because we will be without sin, we will be perfected creatures, just as Jesus was perfected. Only those who are perfected can dwell with YHWH in His righteous abode. There is NO “falling from Heaven”, where only the righteous do dwell. Any “falling from heaven” in the bible represents men falling from their position of power that God had granted them. The OT teaches us that God’s prophets/messengers became lying prophets and fell from their position and were kicked out of God’s temple on earth. As well, Kings fall from “heaven”, or their “high places”, such as the King of Babylon, who had great power, but then God struck him down.
The word “spirit” in the bible is complex. We will have to take up what demons and evil spirits are on another thread!…as well as what “falling from heaven” means.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
The “last Adam”
Jesus was raised from the dead without his FLESH seeing corruption, and he declared after being raised from the dead that he was flesh and bones. Scripture clearly teaches IN THE RESURRECTION is eternal life. Jesus did not receive eternal life sometime later after he arose from the tomb, he received eternal life in his flesh and bones body as he rose and came out of the the tomb.
Jesus is called the LAST ADAM, because his body returned to the original Adam, having the body of Adam before Adam sinned!!
Jesus became a life-giving spirit, a heavenly man.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors–not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
We did not receive through Christ a spirit of bondage, but a spirit of life. Adam brought sin and death, and the spirit of bondage. Jesus brought the Spirit of life.
Paul does not teach that Jesus became some sort of new spirit being. He is teaching that his mind was at one with YHWH’s Spirit, this is how he remained without sin, and this is how he was deserving of eternal life. If the spirit in Christ dwells in us, we too will receive eternal life. The spirit in Christ is a perfected human mind created through the works of YHWH’s Spirit, causing the mind of Christ to break the chains of bondage of the carnal mind.
Jesus was tempted just like we are, he was a man born into a spirit of bondage just like we are. However Christ through the power of God’s Spirit broke the chains, and condemned sin in the flesh, that sin should no longer exist in the flesh. The punishment of sin that God gave Adam and Eve was that their flesh would grow old, die, and then decay returning back to the dust. Flesh that does not sin however is not worthy of death. Jesus paid the punishment of a sinner, however he wa
s not deserving of such, and that is why God would not allow his flesh to see corruption. Though God allowed Jesus to die, He had promised David that He would not allow the flesh of Jesus to decay.Adam represents the spirit of bondage, but Christ represents the life giving spirit.
“one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
1 Corinthians 15, says that Jesus became a life giving spirit
Romans 8 tells us that we must have the spirit of Christ to receive eternal life
What caused Jesus to enter into eternal life was his MIND. Hebrews 5 teaches us that Jesus was perfected, that he learned obedience to YHWH through suffering and dying on the cross. The mind of Christ became life giving for it conquered the great adversary, the serpent, the devil, the carnal mind! To have a mind like Christ is what brings us into life. The spirit of Christ that is life giving is his MIND, it is not what he became to be at some point AFTER his resurrection.
Jodi,
I disagree, but your posts are too long for me to discuss each point you make.
Quote There is NO “falling from Heaven”, where only the righteous do dwell. Any “falling from heaven” in the bible represents men falling from their position of power that God had granted them. The OT teaches us that God’s prophets/messengers became lying prophets and fell from their position and were kicked out of God’s temple on earth. As well, Kings fall from “heaven”, or their “high places”, such as the King of Babylon, who had great power, but then God struck him down. Yes Jodi, those lying prophets were kicked out of a place ON EARTH. Why would scripture writers say some were kicked out of HEAVEN if they didn't really MEAN “kicked out of HEAVEN”?
If it says “earth”, then believe “earth”. If it says “heaven”, then believe “heaven”.
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