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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:19) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2012,09:01) So the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God? 
Surely that can't be right.
Where did I say, “the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God?”That isn't anywhere close to what I said.
My point was that both the body we have now and the body that will be raised from the dead are made of flesh.
It seems as if you've said the same thing again while at the same time claiming you never said it. If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) There exists no scripture that says Jesus made yet another change.
It is not “A” scripture, but the context of different scriptures. I agree that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh body – a flesh body that Paul says cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.So, how is it that Jesus has not only inherited that Kingdom, but is ruling as King over it right now?
I believe my position holds more weight than yours.
Paul gives ample examples of how we must put to death the deeds of the flesh because obeying our flesh and blood does not bring us to inherit the kingdom of God. What causes us to inherit the kingdom of God is YHWH”S Spirit giving our mind's faith and helping us to deny the deeds of the flesh.
YOU did not answer my question. Show me where in scripture it discusses Jesus morphing into another sort of creature AFTER he was raised from the dead?
Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
The PROMISE was that the eternal King would be an incorruptible human being of the seed of David! The promise was ACCORDING to the flesh.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.When we are led by our flesh and blood we cannot inherit the kingdom of God, we must be led by the Spirit.
The flesh of Jesus NEVER saw corruption, it became immortal!!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:19) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2012,09:01) So the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God? Surely that can't be right.
Where did I say, “the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God?”That isn't anywhere close to what I said.
My point was that both the body we have now and the body that will be raised from the dead are made of flesh.
It seems as if you've said the same thing again while at the same time claiming you never said it. If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) There exists no scripture that says Jesus made yet another change.
It is not “A” scripture, but the context of different scriptures. I agree that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh body – a flesh body that Paul says cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.So, how is it that Jesus has not only inherited that Kingdom, but is ruling as King over it right now?
The point you keep trying to make to me Mike I have found rather annoying. You are debating with having no regard for what I am actually saying. From my very first post I pointed out what I believed Paul meant when he said, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” however you keep ignoring that.You said, “If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.”
Seriously…..what is with these comments and your little raised eyebrow icon?
Why should I bother debating with you when you choose to ignore what I am actually saying.
Mike, what causes a person to inherit the kingdom of God?
A. Following after his flesh and blood?
B. Following after the Holy Spirit?Paul was teaching that following after our flesh and blood cannot cause us to inherit the kingdom of God. From my understanding Paul was not talking about what we will be in the kingdom of God, but how it is we inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus was raised in the flesh and the promise was that he would sit on the eternal throne in the flesh, however he got there not through following after his flesh and blood body, but by overcoming it, learning obedience by what he suffered, with strength from the Holy Spirit.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 26 2012,00:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:19) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2012,09:01) So the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God? Surely that can't be right.
Where did I say, “the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God?”That isn't anywhere close to what I said.
My point was that both the body we have now and the body that will be raised from the dead are made of flesh.
It seems as if you've said the same thing again while at the same time claiming you never said it. If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) There exists no scripture that says Jesus made yet another change.
It is not “A” scripture, but the context of different scriptures. I agree that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh body – a flesh body that Paul says cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.So, how is it that Jesus has not only inherited that Kingdom, but is ruling as King over it right now?
The point you keep trying to make to me Mike I have found rather annoying. You are debating with having no regard for what I am actually saying. From my very first post I pointed out what I believed Paul meant when he said, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” however you keep ignoring that.You said, “If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.”
Seriously…..what is with these comments and your little raised eyebrow icon?
Why should I bother debating with you when you choose to ignore what I am actually saying.
Mike, what causes a person to inherit the kingdom of God?
A. Following after his flesh and blood?
B. Following after the Holy Spirit?Paul was teaching that following after our flesh and blood cannot cause us to inherit the kingdom of God. From my understanding Paul was not talking about what we will be in the kingdom of God, but how it is we inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus was raised in the flesh and the promise was that he would sit on the eternal throne in the flesh, however he got there not through following after his flesh and blood body, but by overcoming it, learning obedience by what he suffered, with strength from the Holy Spirit.
Jody.MATHEW 22: 30.FOR IN THE RESURRECTION THEY NEITHER MARRY,NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE,BUT ARE AS THE ANGELS OF GOD IN HEAVEN.
WHAT FLESH IS JESUS TALKING ABOUT?
wakeup.
Jody,
Whether it annoys you or not, the question Paul is answering in 1 Cor 15 is, “With what kind of BODIES will the dead be raised?” The answer is “SPIRTUAL BODIES, because FLESH cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (enter into heaven)”.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 26 2012,09:17) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 26 2012,00:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:19) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2012,09:01) So the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God? Surely that can't be right.
Where did I say, “the dead will be raised with bodies that can't even inherit the Kingdom of God?”That isn't anywhere close to what I said.
My point was that both the body we have now and the body that will be raised from the dead are made of flesh.
It seems as if you've said the same thing again while at the same time claiming you never said it. If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,17:39) There exists no scripture that says Jesus made yet another change.
It is not “A” scripture, but the context of different scriptures. I agree that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh body – a flesh body that Paul says cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.So, how is it that Jesus has not only inherited that Kingdom, but is ruling as King over it right now?
The point you keep trying to make to me Mike I have found rather annoying. You are debating with having no regard for what I am actually saying. From my very first post I pointed out what I believed Paul meant when he said, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” however you keep ignoring that.You said, “If FLESH cannot inherit God's Kingdom, and FLESH is what we are to be raised in, then you have no choice but to be saying that we will be raised in bodies that cannot inherit God's Kingdom.”
Seriously…..what is with these comments and your little raised eyebrow icon?
Why should I bother debating with you when you choose to ignore what I am actually saying.
Mike, what causes a person to inherit the kingdom of God?
A. Following after his flesh and blood?
B. Following after the Holy Spirit?Paul was teaching that following after our flesh and blood cannot cause us to inherit the kingdom of God. From my understanding Paul was not talking about what we will be in the kingdom of God, but how it is we inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus was raised in the flesh and the promise was that he would sit on the eternal throne in the flesh, however he got there not through following after his flesh and blood body, but by overcoming it, learning obedience by what he suffered, with strength from the Holy Spirit.
Jody.MATHEW 22: 30.FOR IN THE RESURRECTION THEY NEITHER MARRY,NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE,BUT ARE AS THE ANGELS OF GOD IN HEAVEN.
WHAT FLESH IS JESUS TALKING ABOUT?
wakeup.
Hi wakeup,Matthew 22:30 says nothing about man being raised from the dead to be some sort of spirit being. In the resurrection we will be as God's messengers, people who do not marry or arrange marriages. The verse says nothing about our bodies being the same as messengers other than we will be immortal as they are and we will not marry.
Jesus was RESURRECTED an immortal human being WITH FLESH AND BONES, nowhere does it say he experienced some sort of change after that.
34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. 35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain–perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
We are talking about the same type of body, it is sown in corruption and raised in incorruption.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
The spiritual body, is the body Jesus was raised with, which was immortal flesh and bones. The body of glory that Paul was talking about was the body Jesus came out of the tomb with.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed–
The image of Adam was a man of weak mental spirit, with a body that could die and decompose, and should rightly so for he followed not the will of God but after his flesh. The image of the heavenly man was a man strong in spirit, who was able to die but not deserving of death, so God promised that his flesh would not decompose but be changed into immortality.
When Paul was speaking of the natural man and the heavenly man, he was speaking about the man who either follows after his flesh like a natural brute beast verses the man who follows the will of God. Following after the image of the natural man will not bring us into inheriting God's Kingdom.
JODY.
jesus said it so clearly; YOU WILL BE AS THE ANGELS.
Are they not spirit? are you refusing to see; because the love of the doctrine that has been exposed to you for too long.wakeup. ps.are you jw?
Hi Wakeup,
I don't think we ever finished our discussion. (If you answered in another thread, sorry but I haven't come across it.)
The point I was making is if THE PERSON Jesus is the one who said HE had glory with God before the world was formed, then doesn't it stand to reason that THE PERSON Jesus was with God as a sentient person at that time?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 26 2012,22:16) JODY. jesus said it so clearly; YOU WILL BE AS THE ANGELS.
Are they not spirit? are you refusing to see; because the love of the doctrine that has been exposed to you for too long.wakeup. ps.are you jw?
Mike,the love of what doctrine? My conclusions are from my personal studies. I don't go to any church, have not since I was about 20 years old, and I certainly don't follow any church's doctrine. I try to rid my mind of Christian tradition as best I can, and see scripture for what it actually speaks of.
The scriptures say, we will be as the messengers, no longer able to die anymore and no longer being given in marriage. The scriptures speaks nothing about becoming spirit beings.
I think you should go to the thread I started about messengers. Show me where it says they are spirits!
I do not believe in “spirit beings” such a compound is not found in scripture. Messengers have bodies, and from what scripture actually describes them as, they ARE HUMANS!!
To all, to the honor and glory of YHWH's work with His creation!
Acts 2:30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,
Acts 2:31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
Romans 9:1 Truth I say in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing testimony with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great grief and unceasing pain in my heart — 3 for I was wishing, I myself, to be anathema from the Christ – for my brethren, my kindred, according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the lawgiving, and the service, and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.
Of whom IS the Christ!!
The above scriptures speak of “flesh” as representing the body’s makeup, and it identifies Christ as being still genetically an Israelite.
Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written , Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus was raised from the dead with immortal flesh. What is significant and key about this type of flesh is that it does not draw a person into sin, as mortal flesh does. Jesus was raised from weak flesh into flesh of power, The mortal flesh of man is weak in that it is naturally drawn to serve itself in order to survive, just as other mammals on earth exist.
Jesus was raised from the dead given HONOR and GLORY, being a human being given IMMORTAL FLESH and BONES!! God is going to quicken our mortal bodies with His Spirit, as he did with Jesus. Which occurred WHEN God raised Jesus from the dead, NOT when He sometime later transformed him into something else. There exists NO biblical evidence that God later transformed him AFTER he was RAISED FROM the DEAD. Such a doctrine IMO dishonors God’s glorious work, the work that was accomplished WHEN Jesus WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD without his flesh seeing corruption.
Galatians 5: 13 For ye — to freedom ye were called, brethren, only not the freedom for an occasion to the flesh, but through the love serve ye one another, 14 for all the law in one word is fulfilled — in this: `Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself;' 15 and if one another ye do bite and devour, see — that ye may not by one another be consumed. 16 And I say: In the Spirit walk ye, and the desire of the flesh ye may not complete; 17 for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will — these ye may not do; 18 and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law. 19 And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strifes, emulations, wraths, rivalries, dissensions, sects, 21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revellings, and such like, of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that those doing such things the reign of God shall not inherit. 22 And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law; 24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires; 25 if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk; 26 let us not become vain-glorious — one another provoking, one another envying!
“Mortal flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit”, but NOT immortal flesh!! Jesus Christ is no longer a slave to his body, his body no longer tries to have dominion over him, for Immortal flesh is united with the Holy Spirit.
Romans 7:25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.
Romans 8:1 There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Following our flesh and blood will not lead us into the Kingdom of God, following our Heavenly Father’s Spirit and Will is what leads us into the Kingdom. Mortal flesh draws the human mind to serve the body, however immortal flesh does nothing of the sort, it does not fear death, but it dwells in the light of eternal life and thus is at ONE with YHWH.Romans 8:9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ — this one is not His;
When Paul speaks of flesh, he is speaking of man’s weak mortal flesh, the flesh that draws man naturally away from God’s Will.
The Spirit of Christ, is the MIND SET of the man Jesus, who did not follow the temptations of his weak flesh but through the Spirit of YHWH he conquered it.Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrew 5: 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ; 9 And being made perfect , he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The flesh Paul is speaking of in the above scripture is the weak flesh. Jesus also had that weak carnal nature, he feared death, he cried and prayed to the Father not to make him go through with his crucifixion. But Jesus did not follow his own will, he followed God’s.
Matthew 26: 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little further , and fell on his face, and prayed , saying , O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Jesus did not want to die, being a mortal human being he feared pain, suffering and death, and thus his “will” was desiring to live. Jesus however overcame his “will” having no confidence or trust in it. The will of man in a mortal body is contrary to the Holy Spirit, for it is tempted by it’s weak flesh. We kn
ow Christ no longer according to that mortal flesh, we know him as the man who was raised from the dead without his flesh ever reaching any sort of stage of decay. With a body of immortal flesh the will of Christ faces no temptation! Jesus is the perfect man, having both a mind and a body that is at one with the Holy Spirit.Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Jesus dies no more, having been raised from the dead.
However, it seems that many on this forum like to preach that the body Jesus was raised in did in fact die and be destroyed. Many preach that it was destroyed and changed into some sort of “spirit being”, and it is that “being” we should all look to as receiving honor and glory. Such teachings IMO is pure crap, and it dishonors YHWH and His work in the perfecting of man.
Jesus our anointed King is a human being of immortal flesh
Isaiah 11:1 Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD. 3 And He will delight in the fear of the LORD, And He will not judge by what His eyes see, Nor make a decision by what His ears hear ; 4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth ; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. 5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins, And faithfulness the belt about His waist. 6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together ; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. 10 Then in that day The nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples ; And His resting place will be glorious.
JODI.
IMMORTAL FLESH??(this is a new invention)
1 cor 15:44. It is sown a naturl body(flesh):it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY.
IT IS NOT RAISED AN IMMORTAL FLESH BODY??(is this the watch tower?
WHERE IS THIS FROM?wakeup.
It is not a new invention! and NO why would it be watch tower, I said clearly I was not a JW, I have no clue what they teach on this biblical subject.
Luke 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'
Jesus said this AFTER he was raised from the dead, and it was upon being raised from the dead he was made immortal.
Who is denying scripture?
Acts 2:30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,
Acts 2:31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written , Death is swallowed up in victory.
Jesus was seen after he was raised from the dead and he said that he was flesh and bones. Scripture tells us quite clearly that of the fruit of David according to the FLESH Christ will sit on the throne. The mortal man Jesus, put on immortality upon being raised from the dead. That immortality was made up of flesh and bones.
Until you debate properly by addressing these scriptures, and explain to me how I am misunderstanding them, by giving me clear scriptures that teach your understanding, I will not take anything you say seriously. I will have to continue repeating the same scriptures until you address them.
As I said,
Jesus dies no more, having been raised from the dead.
However, it seems that many on this forum like to preach that the body Jesus was raised in did in fact die and be destroyed. Many preach that it was destroyed and changed into some sort of “spirit being”, and it is that “being” we should all look to as receiving honor and glory. Such teachings IMO is pure crap, and it dishonors YHWH and His work in the perfecting of man.
Jesus was raised with a spiritual body, he was raised immortal, with flesh and bones. This immortality is at one with the Holy Spirit, unable to feel pain, suffering and die, it no longer is full of temptation to sin, instead it is full of the power of the Spirit.
Jodi.
Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God.
And Jesus said that we will be as the angels.The three angels met abraham and they sat with him and ate and drink with him. A spirit body can materialise.
Jesus materialised, came in the house out of nowhere,ate and drank with the apostles,but then he disapeared.The jws believe what you believe; that in the kingdom will be all flesh living forever.Only the 144000 will be spirit.
Tell me Jodi,what does Jesus mean when he said ''YOU WILL BE AS THE ANGELS?
wakeup.
I have already answered that question. We will be like the messengers in that we will no longer be able to die anymore and that we will not marry. That is how we are told we will be like the messengers.
Angels have bodies! Show me a scripture where it says they are “spirit beings”?
The scriptures actually call messengers in the bible MEN. The messengers themselves in the bible identify and say that they are men!
Please address the scriptures I gave you.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 01 2012,08:34) It is not a new invention! and NO why would it be watch tower, I said clearly I was not a JW, I have no clue what they teach on this biblical subject. Luke 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'
Jesus said this AFTER he was raised from the dead, and it was upon being raised from the dead he was made immortal.
Who is denying scripture?
Acts 2:30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,
Acts 2:31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written , Death is swallowed up in victory.
Jesus was seen after he was raised from the dead and he said that he was flesh and bones. Scripture tells us quite clearly that of the fruit of David according to the FLESH Christ will sit on the throne. The mortal man Jesus, put on immortality upon being raised from the dead. That immortality was made up of flesh and bones.
Until you debate properly by addressing these scriptures, and explain to me how I am misunderstanding them, by giving me clear scriptures that teach your understanding, I will not take anything you say seriously. I will have to continue repeating the same scriptures until you address them.
As I said,
Jesus dies no more, having been raised from the dead.
However, it seems that many on this forum like to preach that the body Jesus was raised in did in fact die and be destroyed. Many preach that it was destroyed and changed into some sort of “spirit being”, and it is that “being” we should all look to as receiving honor and glory. Such teachings IMO is pure crap, and it dishonors YHWH and His work in the perfecting of man.
Jesus was raised with a spiritual body, he was raised immortal, with flesh and bones. This immortality is at one with the Holy Spirit, unable to feel pain, suffering and die, it no longer is full of temptation to sin, instead it is full of the power of the Spirit.
Good post Jodi and I agree with most of what you write!WJ
wakeup
in time you will see who is who and what they believe in and how they interpret the scriptures in regards to their own opinions
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2012,04:46) wakeup in time you will see who is who and what they believe in and how they interpret the scriptures in regards to their own opinions
Pierre
I thank God that the world cant see who we are as IF they could see (if God would reveal us unto them) There would be either one of these three things happen, 1- They would kill us or want to kill us 2- They would fall down at our feet and try to worship us or 3- They would be so scared of us they would run as fast and as hard as they could to get away from us. So it is a good thing that God has us hid in this veil of flesh. See the world is waiting for the return of Jesus Christ, so the bible tells us that deferred hope sickens the heart so they have been waiting so long for his return they are sick so the sick need a physician. But we first of all must recognize that we know who we are. We are this body walking around here veiled in a coat of flesh. THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD HAVE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR GOD AND HIS CHRIST AND HE SHALL RULE AND REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER, note it didnt say will become it said HAVE BECOME. So he has already come to those who blieeve he has but to the world they are still waiting on him to return so thier hearts are sick.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2011,08:18) Hi All, NOTE: The definition of “man” in this thread is NOT “male as opposed to female”, but “HUMAN BEING as opposed to SPIRIT BEING”. So when I ask if Jesus is still a “man”, I'm not asking if he is MALE. I'm asking if he is still a HUMAN BEING.
I already suspect in advance that I will be on the losing end of this one. But let's consider the scriptural facts of the matter:
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Just like the poorly translated John 1:1 became the “go to” scripture to “prove” the Trinity, 1 Tim 2:5 is likewise the “go to” scripture that “proves” Jesus is STILL a man in heaven. But let's read it again in context:
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men………
Now this can be understood that Jesus is STILL a man – which is how most people take it. Or, it could be understood that the man who gave himself as a ransom IS NOW the mediator between God and men.
It is a toss up at this point, for either understanding can be the correct one. But which understanding do the other scriptures support?
Galatians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
There is no toss up here. Paul makes it abundantly clear in this scripture that Jesus is NOT a man, for he contrasts Jesus and God the Father FROM men.Galatians 1:12
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.Again, Paul does not mince words in this scripture. He is CLEARLY saying that Jesus is NOT a man.
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.Here Paul makes a distinction between the natural body of human beings, and the spiritual body of spirit beings.
1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.And here, Paul distinguishes Jesus from the MAN Adam, by teaching that Jesus is now a “life-giving SPIRIT”.
1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.There has never been a MAN (human being) who was not made of flesh and blood. And if flesh and blood are what HUMAN BEINGS consist of, then HUMAN BEINGS cannot inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom. And if there is anyone who ever existed that is worthy to inherit God's Heavenly Kingdom, it would be Jesus. Plus the fact that Jesus rules over this Kingdom right now makes it a safe bet to say that Jesus has inherited this Kingdom, right? So that means Jesus must not be flesh anymore, right? And if Jesus is not flesh anymore, he is also not a HUMAN BEING any more, right?
I will add to these scriptures 2 Corinthians 3:17-18, which support the fact that Jesus is now a SPIRIT BEING, as opposed to a flesh and blood HUMAN BEING.
peace and love,
mike
Mike it is very evident that most people dont understand this. If it is hid it is hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes such as would leatn. See God is a spirit go back to Moses when he came off the mount what? He was shining with the glory of God, but the people wanted to use the carneal mind to get a hold of what he was trying to get them to see, The carnal mind cant find God or can ever understand. So they Moses said here let me give you something that you can worship and it was the 5 senses, see, feel. taste, hear and touch , Then they were tossed into the carn mind worship of God. The bible tells us to be carnally minded is death, so the ball was really rolling then, but the plan was to wrship God in spirit, whiuch they could not do becasue they were trying to wrship god in the carnal mind.Quote (Delriomike @ Feb. 02 2012,15:41) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2012,04:46) wakeup in time you will see who is who and what they believe in and how they interpret the scriptures in regards to their own opinions
Pierre
I thank God that the world cant see who we are as IF they could see (if God would reveal us unto them) There would be either one of these three things happen, 1- They would kill us or want to kill us 2- They would fall down at our feet and try to worship us or 3- They would be so scared of us they would run as fast and as hard as they could to get away from us. So it is a good thing that God has us hid in this veil of flesh. See the world is waiting for the return of Jesus Christ, so the bible tells us that deferred hope sickens the heart so they have been waiting so long for his return they are sick so the sick need a physician. But we first of all must recognize that we know who we are. We are this body walking around here veiled in a coat of flesh. THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD HAVE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR GOD AND HIS CHRIST AND HE SHALL RULE AND REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER, note it didnt say will become it said HAVE BECOME. So he has already come to those who blieeve he has but to the world they are still waiting on him to return so thier hearts are sick.
delQuote THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD HAVE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR GOD AND HIS CHRIST AND HE SHALL RULE AND REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER, wen Christ said those words he meant that from then on their would be no more waiting for it and so all how die will be spared the grave for their soul.but receive a waiting place in the bosom of Abraham ,(favor place)
Pierre
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