Is Jesus still a man in heaven?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 10 2012,11:31)

Mike, I believe your missing the point Job was making, he realized that although he would die and his flesh rot, he would see God with his very own eyes, stressing that it was his, not anothers. My opinion – Wm

Hi Wm,

Did you read the NETNotes info I posted? The part in green where they say the Hebrew is uncertain because it could mean “separated from my flesh”, or it could mean “with my flesh”?

I don't think this is a good scripture to use as “solid evidence” for Jesus still having flesh. Especially when 1 Cor 15:50 is crystal clear on the matter: I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…….

Not to mention the other scriptures I listed in my OP, where Jesus is clearly distinguished as NOT A MAN.

peace,
mike

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 04 2012,11:26)

Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being. I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been? Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.   peace, mike

Indeed that statement needs clarification.

Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now.

Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change. He remains in his resurrection body.

He remains a man at the right hand of God.

I Timothy 2:5

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Sorry for the confusion.

barley

[terraricca]

Quote (barley @ Jan. 16 2012,05:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 04 2012,11:26) Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being. I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been? Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.   peace, mike Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley

barley

Quote

Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change. He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley

you are confused between the Jesus the man and Jesus Christ the son of man and son of God ,

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

according to Paul Jesus the man his the mediator between God and men as the man Jesus (wen he was on earth and now his in heaven but not as a man ,he as his previous glory back but he still is our mediator)

but his glorified body is not flesh ;

Rev 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
Rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
Rev 1:14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
Rev 1:15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

the description of John about how he saw Christ are not those of a man or is it ???

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (barley @ Jan. 15 2012,05:56)

Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change. He remains in his resurrection body.

Hi barley,

The resurrection body was made of flesh and bone and had the holes from the crucifixion in it – as we know Thomas put his hand in the spear hole.

Does it seem reasonable to you that Jesus will spend eternity in a marred, flesh body when flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God?

Men are made of flesh, and Jesus became a life giving spirit. This is why Paul said he received his gospel, NOT from any man, but from Jesus Christ.

I don't believe that Jesus is the only human being dwelling in the spiritual realm of heaven. Nor do the scriptures suggest such a thing.

peace,
mike

[barley]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,23:24)

Quote (barley @ Jan. 16 2012,05:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 04 2012,11:26) Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being. I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been? Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.   peace, mike Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley barley Quote Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley you are confused between the Jesus the man and Jesus Christ the son of man and son of God , 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus according to Paul Jesus the man his the mediator between God and men as  the man Jesus (wen he was on earth and now his in heaven but not as a man ,he as his previous glory back but he still is our mediator) but his glorified body is not flesh ; Rev 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, Rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. Rev 1:14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. Rev 1:15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. the description of John about how he saw Christ are not those of a man or is it ??? Pierre

Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men now.

Now he is the man Christ Jesus.

He most certainly is not a man like unto us with a “vile” body.

He has the resurrection body, we will have the same as Philippians 3:20-21 state.

We will still be men/mankind, but with a new body like his.

He is man, so are we, God highly exalted him.

I Corinthians 15:35-57

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain :
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory
?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are promised to experience, at his return,  our change to the new body, like the body Jesus Christ already has.

Philippians 3:21

20 For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We will still be human, but in a better form, a form suited for living eternally.  

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

barley

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,00:28)

Quote (barley @ Jan. 15 2012,05:56) Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. Hi barley, The resurrection body was made of flesh and bone and had the holes from the crucifixion in it – as we know Thomas put his hand in the spear hole. Does it seem reasonable to you that Jesus will spend eternity in a marred, flesh body when flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? Men are made of flesh, and Jesus became a life giving spirit.  This is why Paul said he received his gospel, NOT from any man, but from Jesus Christ. I don't believe that Jesus is the only human being dwelling in the spiritual realm of heaven.  Nor do the scriptures suggest such a thing. peace, mike

Yes, his resurrection body showed those holes.

Yet, it is clear that the body he has now is changeable. For the two men on the road to Emmaeus that Jesus must have spent a few hours with did not recognize him nor see any holes in his hands or feet or in his forehead from the crowns of thorns.

Evidently, those holes were there temporarily to more clearly indicate that the man they saw standing in front of him was indeed the risen Christ and not some delusion or devil or phantom.  

He was also able to vanish away from the two men on the road to Emmaeus.  

That is one versatile body.

We will have the same at our gathering together unto him.

barley

[mikeboll64]

Hi barley,

I agree with what you've said. The difference is that I don't think Jesus has a flesh body anymore, because:

1. He is now a spirit being.
2. Flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom.

Also, why would those going off into everlasting life in heaven need a body equipped for living on earth?

I believe those destined to live on earth will have an immortal flesh body, and those destined to live in heaven will have immortal spiritual bodies.

The 1 Cor 15 passage you posted says just that:
44There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God…………

He speaks of the spiritual bodies of those of heaven, ie: “the heavenly”. We have all borne the body of the earthly, and some of us will eventually bear the body of the heavenly.

At least this is how I understand it.

peace,
mike

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2012,11:29)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 10 2012,11:31) Mike, I believe your missing the point Job was making, he realized that although he would die and his flesh rot, he would see God with his very own eyes, stressing that it was his, not anothers. My opinion – Wm Hi Wm, Did you read the NETNotes info I posted?  The part in green where they say the Hebrew is uncertain because it could mean “separated from my flesh”, or it could mean “with my flesh”? I don't think this is a good scripture to use as “solid evidence” for Jesus still having flesh.  Especially when 1 Cor 15:50 is crystal clear on the matter:  I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God……. Not to mention the other scriptures I listed in my OP, where Jesus is clearly distinguished as NOT A MAN. peace, mike

We agree in part Mike. Jesus does not still have flesh. Paul also said that the immortal body from heaven is “unseen.” Therefore, it cannot be a body of flesh. Read the statement in its whole context (2 Corinthians 4:16-5:5).

However, Jesus is still a man but with a higher nature and form. A caterpillar is a Lepidoptera. A butterfly is a Lepidoptera in a higher and more majestic form. The butterfly is the caterpillar glorified. So Jesus is glorified Man.

Jesus is still the image of God which is what man is. He is the “firstborn of many brethren.” The 'firstborn' of sheep is itself a sheep.

When will you learn to leave it to those of us who understand essence? You should read more and post less.

Jack

[mikeboll64]

Jack,

“Man” refers to “human being”.  There has never been a human being who did not consist of flesh, because that's what human beings are made of.

Now you say Jesus doesn't have flesh anymore, and I agree.  But a being WITHOUT flesh is no longer a human being, and therefore no longer a “man”.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

Jesus became a SPIRIT being, and is therefore no longer a HUMAN being.

Galatians 1
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father………

11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Paul seems to think Jesus is NOT a man. And I would think this would be even more acceptable to people who share your doctrine, Jack. You think Jesus IS God Almighty, and therefore believe our God is a human being.

[terraricca]

Quote (barley @ Jan. 17 2012,11:30)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,23:24) Quote (barley @ Jan. 16 2012,05:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 04 2012,11:26) Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being. I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been? Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.   peace, mike Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley barley Quote Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley you are confused between the Jesus the man and Jesus Christ the son of man and son of God , 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus according to Paul Jesus the man his the mediator between God and men as  the man Jesus (wen he was on earth and now his in heaven but not as a man ,he as his previous glory back but he still is our mediator) but his glorified body is not flesh ; Rev 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, Rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. Rev 1:14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. Rev 1:15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. the description of John about how he saw Christ are not those of a man or is it ??? Pierre Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men now. Now he is the man Christ Jesus. He most certainly is not a man like unto us with a “vile” body. He has the resurrection body, we will have the same as Philippians 3:20-21 state. We will still be men/mankind, but with a new body like his. He is man, so are we, God highly exalted him. I Corinthians 15:35-57 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain : 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We are promised to experience, at his return,  our change to the new body, like the body Jesus Christ already has. Philippians 3:21 20 For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. We will still be human, but in a better form, a form suited for living eternally.   Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. barley

Barley

Christ as been send by God and has return to God after his work is done here,but does not mean he still Christ and the son of God ,even if now he is a heavenly being,and as for being in heaven for us ,there are only 144k that will be redeemed from the earth ,so we will be mostly on earth

Pierre

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,08:38)

Jack, “Man” refers to “human being”.  There has never been a human being who did not consist of flesh, because that's what human beings are made of. Now you say Jesus doesn't have flesh anymore, and I agree.  But a being WITHOUT flesh is no longer a human being, and therefore no longer a “man”. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. Jesus became a SPIRIT being, and is therefore no longer a HUMAN being. Galatians 1 1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father……… 11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. Paul seems to think Jesus is NOT a man.  And I would think this would be even more acceptable to people who share your doctrine, Jack.  You think Jesus IS God Almighty, and therefore believe our God is a human being.

Mike,

“Man” is NOT limited to human being anymore than  Lepidoptera is limited to caterpillar. A butterfly is also a Lepidoptera but in a higher and more majestic form.

A human being is “Man” as we now know him. Man as we will know him is higher and more majestic but is still “Man.”

Jesus is still the image of God Mike!

Major premise: Man is the image of God
Minor premise: Jesus is still the image of God
Conclusion: Jesus is still Man

Man is NOT defined by his flesh.

You said that Paul does not see Jesus as still being a Man. Yet he said when we put on immortality we will assume the image of the “second Man.”

Jack

[mikeboll64]

Where does Paul say that, Jack?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,09:37)

Where does Paul say that, Jack?

Mike,

Your question reflects that you are unteachable. Plain and simple. Paul said that there is a natural body (a flesh and blood body), and there is a spiritual body (an ethereal body).

Likewise he said that the first MAN was from the earth and that the second MAN is from heaven.

Therefore, there is an earthly MAN and there is a heavenly MAN.

“The first man was from the dust of the earth; the second MAN is from heaven.” 1 Corinthians 15:47

Analogy: There is an earthbound Lepidoptera (the caterpillar) and there is an airborne Lepidoptera (the butterfly).

You show only that you WILL NOT be taught.

Jack

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 17 2012,16:37)

Likewise he said that the first MAN was from the earth and that the second MAN is from heaven.

Why the different tenses in your words, Jack?

It seems to me that if the first man WAS from earth, then the second man WAS from heaven – with which I agree.

Why do you use past tense for Adam, and present tense for Jesus?

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2012,06:46)

Hi barley, I agree with what you've said.  The difference is that I don't think Jesus has a flesh body anymore, because: 1.  He is now a spirit being. 2.  Flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Also, why would those going off into everlasting life in heaven need a body equipped for living on earth? I believe those destined to live on earth will have an immortal flesh body, and those destined to live in heaven will have immortal spiritual bodies.   The 1 Cor 15 passage you posted says just that: 44There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God………… He speaks of the spiritual bodies of those of heaven, ie: “the heavenly”.  We have all borne the body of the earthly, and some of us will eventually bear the body of the heavenly. At least this is how I understand it. peace, mike

Mike,

I simply believe what Jesus christ said about his own resurrected body in Luke 24:39

“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

That is what he said.

If you wish to argue with him, you are welcome to it.

How to reconcile the other things he taught and the other scriptures that you bring up?

Well, I believe Jesus Christ knows what he is talking about.

Just because I do not understand everything about everything he said or that God had written in scriptures (the original words that holy men of God were given) does not give me reason to doubt the truth of God's word.

If I decide I need to know and the answers are available, and I work to find those answers, I am sure that God will meet my need.

Matthew 5:6

“Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Until then, I will have to be satisfied with believing what I can.

barley

[barley]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2012,08:55)

Quote (barley @ Jan. 17 2012,11:30) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2012,23:24) Quote (barley @ Jan. 16 2012,05:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 04 2012,11:26) Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) Jesus Christ in his resurrected body was not a spirit being. I agree, oatmeal.  How have you been? Quote (barley @ Jan. 03 2012,17:34) There are no scriptures to suggest that that has changed. If anything there are verses that support that. Philippians 3:21 “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” You lost me there.  It seems as if you say there are no scripture to suggest Jesus changed, but then go on to list one that supports the thought that he changed.   peace, mike Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley barley Quote Indeed that statement needs clarification. Jesus Christ first physical body was changed at his resurrection to that body he has now. Since that change to his resurrection body, there is no scriptural evidence of further change.  He remains in his resurrection body. He remains a man at the right hand of God. I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Sorry for the confusion. barley you are confused between the Jesus the man and Jesus Christ the son of man and son of God , 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus according to Paul Jesus the man his the mediator between God and men as  the man Jesus (wen he was on earth and now his in heaven but not as a man ,he as his previous glory back but he still is our mediator) but his glorified body is not flesh ; Rev 1:12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, Rev 1:13 and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. Rev 1:14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. Rev 1:15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. the description of John about how he saw Christ are not those of a man or is it ??? Pierre Christ Jesus is the mediator between God and men now. Now he is the man Christ Jesus. He most certainly is not a man like unto us with a “vile” body. He has the resurrection body, we will have the same as Philippians 3:20-21 state. We will still be men/mankind, but with a new body like his. He is man, so are we, God highly exalted him. I Corinthians 15:35-57 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain : 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpe t shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We are promised to experience, at his return,  our change to the new body, like the body Jesus Christ already has. Philippians 3:21 20 For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. We will still be human, but in a better form, a form suited for living eternally.   Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. barley Barley Christ as been send by God and has return to God after his work is done here,but does not mean he still Christ and the son of God ,even if now he is a heavenly being,and as for being in heaven for us ,there are only 144k that will be redeemed from the earth ,so we will be mostly on earth Pierre

terraricca,

You are speaking of the book of Revelation, a book of great truths.

I am not talking about the book of Revelation, which basically applies to Israel and the second coming of Jesus Christ to Israel.

I am talking about Christianity.

Romans 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

God does not put a number limit on who can believe those truths:

Romans 10:11-13

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Note the word, “whosoever”.

Likewise, the Book of Revelation describes God's “wrath”

Since I am saved/a Christian with the gift of salvation/righteousness/eternal life, I am saved from the wrath to come.  

Romans 5:9  

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

I Thessalonians 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

If you wish to put yourself under the law, which Christians are no longer under, by assuming that the book of Revelations is about Christianity, that is your choice.

But Christians are saved from the wrath to come.

God did not put a number limit on who can do Romans 10:9-10

barley

[terraricca]

barley

Quote

I am talking about Christianity.

there is no such a thing in scriptures,there is only believers and unbelievers;

Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (barley @ Jan. 19 2012,08:05)

I simply believe what Jesus christ said about his own resurrected body in Luke 24:39 If you wish to argue with him, you are welcome to it.

I don't “argue” with Jesus' words, barley.  But can scripture contradict itself?

It was Jesus himself, in Luke 24:39, who said “spirits DON'T have flesh and bone”, right?

Yet Jesus BECAME a life giving spirit.  (1 Cor 15:45)

And wasn't it Jesus who said the resurrected will not have husbands and wives, because they will be like the angels?

As I see it, that leaves no choice except that Jesus was raised in the flesh he died in, and was later transformed from a flesh being to a spirit being. Paul speaks of this transformation in Phil 3:21.

I don't suppose any others of those resurrected to a life in heaven will have to first come back in their flesh bodies. But Jesus had 40 more days of work to do on earth before ascending to heaven. I imagine he will be the only one to be raised first in flesh, and then transformed. The others of the elect won't need to have that “flesh body stopover” like Jesus did, IMO.

[barley]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2012,06:49)

Quote (barley @ Jan. 19 2012,08:05) I simply believe what Jesus christ said about his own resurrected body in Luke 24:39 If you wish to argue with him, you are welcome to it. I don't “argue” with Jesus' words, barley.  But can scripture contradict itself? It was Jesus himself, in Luke 24:39, who said “spirits DON'T have flesh and bone”, right? Yet Jesus BECAME a life giving spirit.  (1 Cor 15:45) And wasn't it Jesus who said the resurrected will not have husbands and wives, because they will be like the angels? As I see it, that leaves no choice except that Jesus was raised in the flesh he died in, and was later transformed from a flesh being to a spirit being.  Paul speaks of this transformation in Phil 3:21. I don't suppose any others of those resurrected to a life in heaven will have to first come back in their flesh bodies.  But Jesus had 40 more days of work to do on earth before ascending to heaven.  I imagine he will be the only one to be raised first in flesh, and then transformed.  The others of the elect won't need to have that “flesh body stopover” like Jesus did, IMO.

Scripture does not contradict itself.

For the author of scripture, God, would not not contradict himself.

Since it does not contradict itself, but it does appear to contradict itself, then the problem is either in translation or our lack of understanding.

In this, it would be a lack in our understanding.

Since pnuema is used with a variety of meanings we must look for a meaning for it which fits with other scriptures on the same subject.

Luke 24:39 seems clear enough.  As does I Corinthians 15:45, but with the variety of nuances to pneuma, we might want to look there to increase our understanding

I Corinthians 15:44, is especially interesting since it is the immediate context.

“It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body….”

Are all things spiritual spirit?

No, we are to be spiritually minded, but our minds are not spirit, not in the eternal life sense.  Spirit in a few uses is used in the sense of soul, spirit of man.  

Our minds refer to an aspect of our soul.

But our eternal life is spirit.

Could this be a figure of speech?

A reference to Jesus Christ's now spiritual body?

Still flesh and bones but not soul driven, but spirit driven.  

This spirit “driven” body would not have any problem being spiritually minded.

Even so we in our new bodies when made like unto his.  It will be spiritually driven or maybe empowered or enlivened would be a better description.

Something to consider.  

barley

[terraricca]

Barley

All living beings have a soul ,even God has one

[Author]

Posts