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Keith has hounded me over and over saying, “Mike, you say Jesus is “a god”, but do you call him “my god”? I have answered many times, but he will not let it go. So I have brought it here in the hopes of ending it once and for all. This will also be a Q and A debate, where only the ONE bolded question needs to be answered by the other.
Keith said in the “Does God Procreate?” thread:
Quote I notice you have no problem calling satan “God”, yet it seems that you avoid calling Jesus “God” or as you have been arguing Jesus is the “Only Begotten God”, if that is true Mike, then how can he be God like the others if he is the “Only Begotten God” and if that is true then why don’t you call him your “Only Begotten God”? You do see the inconsistency here don’t you? First of all, I capped the “G” in “god” in referrence to Satan to make the point that just because someone caps the “G” in “god” does not mean that particular “god” all of a sudden becomes God Almighty. I did it on purpose to show Keith how I feel when he and others cap the “G” in “god” in referrence to Jesus……who is also NOT God Almighty.
As far as calling Jesus “my begotten god”, that is just silly. I wouldn't call him “my begotten god” any more than I would call YOUR son “my begotten son”. I didn't beget Jesus, so why would I call him that?
But I think your point is actually: Is Jesus “my god”? The people who lived in Biblical times used the word “god” differently than we do today. We have it stamped on our brains that there is only one God, and to call another by that title is to support polytheism. That was not the case in Biblical times. “God” simply meant “mighty one”, and it was well known that even though others were considered “mighty ones”, Jehovah was the only Almighty One.
Almighty means “the mightiest of the mighty ones”, and it is a title that ONLY Jehovah holds, for only He is called “the God of gods”. Do you see that Keith? That is just one of MANY scriptures that clearly say there are other “mighty ones”, or “gods”. But NONE of those “gods” are the Almighty One, including Jesus.
So if we were to substitute the word “god” for the word “leader”, which would more readily fit into how the people of Biblical times considered the word “god”, I would have no problem whatsoever calling Jesus “my leader”.
Jesus is most definitely my leader, but at the same time I know he is not THE LEADER. In fact, my leader Jesus has the exact same LEADER as we all do……it is his Father and God.
Does “leader” fit for Satan as well? You betcha. He has many followers, including a third of the angels who were created by my LEADER through my leader.
Do you see how a simple word change makes everything different? Here and now, living in America in the 21st century, I will not say Jesus is “my god” because of what that would imply based on how we now understand the word “god”. But I would have had no problem calling him “my god” back then, all the while knowing that he wasn't THE God.
Keith, is this clear enough for you?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 31 2010,21:08) Keith has hounded me over and over saying, “Mike, you say Jesus is “a god”, but do you call him “my god”? I have answered many times, but he will not let it go. So I have brought it here in the hopes of ending it once and for all. This will also be a Q and A debate, where only the ONE bolded question needs to be answered by the other. Keith said in the “Does God Procreate?” thread:
Quote I notice you have no problem calling satan “God”, yet it seems that you avoid calling Jesus “God” or as you have been arguing Jesus is the “Only Begotten God”, if that is true Mike, then how can he be God like the others if he is the “Only Begotten God” and if that is true then why don’t you call him your “Only Begotten God”? You do see the inconsistency here don’t you? First of all, I capped the “G” in “god” in referrence to Satan to make the point that just because someone caps the “G” in “god” does not mean that particular “god” all of a sudden becomes God Almighty. I did it on purpose to show Keith how I feel when he and others cap the “G” in “god” in referrence to Jesus……who is also NOT God Almighty.
As far as calling Jesus “my begotten god”, that is just silly. I wouldn't call him “my begotten god” any more than I would call YOUR son “my begotten son”. I didn't beget Jesus, so why would I call him that?
But I think your point is actually: Is Jesus “my god”? The people who lived in Biblical times used the word “god” differently than we do today. We have it stamped on our brains that there is only one God, and to call another by that title is to support polytheism. That was not the case in Biblical times. “God” simply meant “mighty one”, and it was well known that even though others were considered “mighty ones”, Jehovah was the only Almighty One.
Almighty means “the mightiest of the mighty ones”, and it is a title that ONLY Jehovah holds, for only He is called “the God of gods”. Do you see that Keith? That is just one of MANY scriptures that clearly say there are other “mighty ones”, or “gods”. But NONE of those “gods” are the Almighty One, including Jesus.
So if we were to substitute the word “god” for the word “leader”, which would more readily fit into how the people of Biblical times considered the word “god”, I would have no problem whatsoever calling Jesus “my leader”.
Jesus is most definitely my leader, but at the same time I know he is not THE LEADER. In fact, my leader Jesus has the exact same LEADER as we all do……it is his Father and God.
Does “leader” fit for Satan as well? You betcha. He has many followers, including a third of the angels who were created by my LEADER through my leader.
Do you see how a simple word change makes everything different? Here and now, living in America in the 21st century, I will not say Jesus is “my god” because of what that would imply based on how we now understand the word “god”. But I would have had no problem calling him “my god” back then, all the while knowing that he wasn't THE God.
Keith, is this clear enough for you?
peace and love,
mike
MikeBut you didn't address the whole question.
“I notice you have no problem calling satan “God”, yet it seems that you avoid calling Jesus “God” “or as you have been arguing Jesus is the “Only Begotten God”, if that is true Mike, then how can he be God like the others if he is the “Only Begotten God” and if that is true then why don’t you call him your “Only Begotten God”? You do see the inconsistency here don’t you?”
Do you see the bolded part? As usual Mike you want to create a diversion by bringing this here and by not answering certain questions while demanding that we answer yours.
You have been arguing that Jesus is “a god” according to the false translation of the NWT on John 1:1 and John 1:18. You have been arguing that Jesus was procreated from the Father as in child birth by an asexual God. God begets a god right Mike?
But your inconsistency is evident because procreation means “to beget after its own kind”.
But you want us to somehow believe that God brought birth to “another kind” like a human bringing birth to a “dog” or something.
So if Jesus is “a god” and God brought birth to him then you are claiming that he is a “begotten God”, right? In fact you have been saying that he is the “Only begotten god”, right?
Yet you claim that he is “a god” in the same sense that other gods are like satan. Remember that claim Mike, which Jack and I told you was anathema.
So once again, answer the question…
” “Since you have been arguing Jesus is the “Only Begotten God”, if that is true Mike, then how can he be God like the others if he is the “Only Begotten God?“
Only means only Mike. Just as “Only One God” means “Only One God”, but the meaning of words seem to be lost with you and your false doctrines Mike.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 02 2010,02:52) But your inconsistency is evident because procreation means “to beget after its own kind”.
Hi Keith,I'm glad you responded…..thank you.
What “kind” IS God, exactly? God is a powerful spirit entity. He begot Jesus, so we would assume that Jesus is a “powerful spirit entity”, right? Well, is he? Of course he is, so I don't get the above quote of yours at all.
Your question:
“You have been arguing Jesus is the “Only Begotten God”, if that is true Mike, then how can he be God like the others if he is the “Only Begotten God?”He is a “god”, or “mighty one” in the same sense as Satan is. Satan is definitely a god, for Paul called him one. And he is definitely real, for he has played an important role in the development of mankind ever since the Garden of Eden. So Satan is REAL. Satan is a GOD. Satan is not THE ONLY TRUE GOD, is he?
Jesus is also called a “god” in scripture. And I don't think you argue that he is not real. So Jesus is REAL. Jesus is a GOD. Jesus is not THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
There are the similarities, and that's where they end. Are there also differences between the god Satan and the god Jesus? Of course there are. In fact, there are too many to list. But for one, Satan was created through Jesus, so that right there implies that Jesus is above Satan in the “pecking order”.
By saying that Jesus is a god in the same sense that Satan is a god, my intention was only that they are BOTH gods who are NOT God Almighty. I never intended to claim they are exactly the same as far as power and authority…….or anything else for that matter.
It's like this: God called human judges “gods”. But they did not have as much power and authority as the angels who were called gods. The angels, in turn, do not have as much power and authority as Jesus who is called mighty god. And Jesus does not have as much power and authority as the ONLY One who is ever called ALMIGHTY GOD.
So finally, to answer your question, Jesus IS the only begotten god. All other “gods” were either created THROUGH Jesus, or imagined. Only one is said to be begotten by God Almighty Himself, and that is Jesus.
So we have Jehovah, the only unbegotten God, because He has no beginning or end.
Then we have Jesus, who was directly begotten by the only unbegotten God.
Then we have all the other gods, either real or imagined.
So is Jesus a god just like the others? Yes, in the sense that he is someone who is called a god, but who is not THE GOD. Is Jesus different from all the others? Absolutely, because he is the only god who was begotten by God Himself. And also because he is the most powerful being in existence next to the God who begot him in the first place. You know…..the God Jesus STILL calls “my God”. The One whom Jesus said is “our God AND his God.” The One whom Jesus, a god, told Satan, a god, this about: “Worship and serve ONLY Jehovah your God.”
Question: Is that clear enough for you Keith?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 05 2010,16:45) Hi Keith, I didn't hear you…… Question: Is that clear enough for you Keith?
mike
MikeSee if you can hear this…
“NO IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME, AND I WILL ANSWER WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT!!!
WJ
Num.23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor as the son of man, that he should be changed. Hath he said then, and will he not do? hath he spoken, and will he not fulfill?
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