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Hi KAT,
Tragically most who are challenged with the truth as written in scripture and how it differs from the traditions of men will seek advice from the leaders of those traditions and miss the opportunity of following Jesus.Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 16 2009,01:56) Quote (katjo @ Sep. 16 2009,01:07) Dont think its garbage Gene! Who is Jesus to you? You know He is who we will spend eternity with?
If Gene had been present at the crucifixion of Jesus he might have grabbed the hammer from the soldier so he could drive in the first nail.Gene gives the impression that he despises Jesus.
thinker
Thinker…….Show me (ONE) Statement that shows I despise Jesus, you couldn't be further from the truth, It is You who Despise GOD the FATHER and don't Believe What He said , that He was the ONLY GOD and that there were not other GOD'S besides HIM. No i honor Jesus by believing what He SAID (FOR THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD) I simply believe His words, But you sure don't and so who Despises Jesus me or YOU, I at least Believe HIS words He spoke, but YOU and WJ and CA seem to think you can change them to fit YOUR DELUDED TRINITARIAN THEOLOGIES. Thinker you are in no position the say who despises Jesus when you don't even believe what he said. IMOpeace and love………………………..gene
IMO, Jesus is not God, but God's honored spokesman, an example and teacher for humanity, the best and most advanced of us. Jesus provides a real possible example of our own future where someday we can rise above the pettiness and sins of our temporal lives.
God on the other hand is simply beyond human understanding, he is too great to grasp and cannot be limited and still be almighty. If Jesus was God then his accomplishments are small and fail to serve as an example for how can mere mortals aspire to that which is all powerful and knowing? If Jesus was human just like us, then how truly great is this man who can effect the changes and perform the acts attributed to him? A God I can worship, but never become, but a man even one without sin and nearing perfection is still something that I can aspire and with some success strive to emulate.
To put it simply Jesus is amazing because he is human!Hi Cato,
Quote To put it simply Jesus is amazing because he is human! We all have so many understandings here. My opinion: “Jesus is the amazing only begotten God and was willing to lay down His privileges and become human.”
Quote (Cato @ Sep. 18 2009,01:48) IMO, Jesus is not God, but God's honored spokesman, an example and teacher for humanity, the best and most advanced of us. Jesus provides a real possible example of our own future where someday we can rise above the pettiness and sins of our temporal lives.
God on the other hand is simply beyond human understanding, he is too great to grasp and cannot be limited and still be almighty. If Jesus was God then his accomplishments are small and fail to serve as an example for how can mere mortals aspire to that which is all powerful and knowing? If Jesus was human just like us, then how truly great is this man who can effect the changes and perform the acts attributed to him? A God I can worship, but never become, but a man even one without sin and nearing perfection is still something that I can aspire and with some success strive to emulate.
To put it simply Jesus is amazing because he is human!
Cato……….I could not have said it better myself. Amen brother, Jesus is our Perfect example of our High calling and Our potential . As it says “until we come to the (FULL) measure of Christ Jesus”. Not half measure or third measure but (FULL) measure. Well put brother. He is our BROTHER not our GOD, He is ONE of US and always will be. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………..gene
One other thought I had to indicate that Jesus is not himself God is from Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God…
One it says he was made.
Two it says that he might become a faithful high priest in service to God.
If Jesus was God in flesh and so equal to the father why would he be priest to and serve the father?Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 17 2009,13:48) Quote
My heart was soft before. You must have mistaken passion for anger. I believe what I do passionately and I defend it passionately. If only you could have this peace inside of you.your statement reads like an oxymoron (you know sharp and foolish) i.e. anger/peace
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Wolf? Well, I know you are just calling me that because you don't know me. That's the problem with the computer generation. People treat others differently than if they spoke face to face.let's give it a go shall we and see, and just a footnote on this one…….you are well to hand out names to others, no?
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If loving the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart makes me a wolf, then aaauuuuoooooo!!!!!!!But seriously, I really do love the Lord and His Church.
truly, if you did you would stop at I love the Lord.
Quote
I want to please Him, so I want to refrain from reciprocating on the concept of “bed fellows.” But I do want to say that our only enemy is sin and satan.how could you possibly be pleasing him, when he is last on your list, how many do you have to go through before your prayers are heard, how many do you have to go through before you are forgiven, how many do you have to go through before you understand. the list you have is so long, Christ is the last one you go to.
if you want to please him just go to him, he is there waiting, the messengers are waiting to sing for you, for such a passion to please, your church blinds you.
one enemy the deciever.
Mat 10:28 `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.Quote your statement reads like an oxymoron (you know sharp and foolish) i.e. anger/peace Look, I don't know who has hurt you in the past. But I'm not angry. Please know that.
Quote let's give it a go shall we and see, and just a footnote on this one…….you are well to hand out names to others, no? I have called BD a twit once. I also have called you a hypocrite. These are hardly names, but most recently I did reciprocate with a name to you, Jezebel, in response to your slander of the Church. I can dish it if you wish. But I think you're the only one I've created an actual name for.
Quote But seriously, I really do love the Lord and His Church.
truly, if you did you would stop at I love the Lord.
[/QUOTE]This is ridiculous. You can't separate the Church from the Lord any more than you can separate the head from the body. I referenced the Church because that was what you were attacking. But of course I have no problem saying, “I love the Lord.” I do.
Quote how could you possibly be pleasing him, when he is last on your list, He's first.
Quote how many do you have to go through before your prayers are heard Just one. Jesus.
Quote how many do you have to go through before you are forgiven Just one. Jesus.
Quote how many do you have to go through before you understand. the list you have is so long, Christ is the last one you go to. You don't even have a clue what I believe. Obviously. If you could accuse me of anything, it would be Christocentricity.
Quote if you want to please him just go to him I do. All the time.
Quote he is there waiting I know. He's here right now.
Quote the messengers are waiting to sing for you, for such a passion to please, your church blinds you. Woe to them that speak of light as darkness.
Quote one enemy the deciever.
Mat 10:28 `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.Salvation is granted to the elect who reject Satan and are joined with Christ in His Church.
Quote (Cato @ Sep. 17 2009,14:19) One other thought I had to indicate that Jesus is not himself God is from Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God…
One it says he was made.
Two it says that he might become a faithful high priest in service to God.
If Jesus was God in flesh and so equal to the father why would he be priest to and serve the father?
CatoHave you ever given thought to the language…
“he had to be made like his brothers in every way”.
Why the explanation if he was born like we were?
Compare it with John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:6-8.
Jesus was not just flesh and blood.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2009,07:02) Quote (Cato @ Sep. 17 2009,14:19) One other thought I had to indicate that Jesus is not himself God is from Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God…
One it says he was made.
Two it says that he might become a faithful high priest in service to God.
If Jesus was God in flesh and so equal to the father why would he be priest to and serve the father?
CatoHave you ever given thought to the language…
“he had to be made like his brothers in every way”.
Why the explanation if he was born like we were?
Compare it with John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:6-8.
Jesus was not just flesh and blood.
WJ
WJ,
Bang boom bro!thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2009,07:02) Have you ever given thought to the language… “he had to be made like his brothers in every way”.
Why the explanation if he was born like we were?
Compare it with John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:6-8.
Jesus was not just flesh and blood.
WJ
Yes I do give thought to language; from the same verse, “…in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God…”. What need has God to become merciful (I thought he already was) and faithful (to whom or what himself)? Why would God serve and be high priest to himself?Oh and yes, Jesus is not just flesh and bones, but then neither are we.
To quote the esteemed thinker, “Bang boom bro!”
wolf,
woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites you build the tombs of the prophets [ look familiar ] and decorate the monuments of the righteous [ did the queen get her flowers this week ] and say if we had lived in the days of our fathers we would not have taken part with them in the blood of the prophets [ emphasis mine ]
mat 23.29you came in like theives and stole the church, and then called it your own, like a theif in the night.
believe this, your clement wrote it or did he?let's dish shall we?
Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 19 2009,13:47) we would not have taken part with them in the blood of the prophets [ emphasis mine ]
mat 23.29let's dish shall we?
Jezebel,Just which “prophets” do you claim the Church killed?
Quote you came in like theives and stole the church, and then called it your own, like a theif in the night.
believe this, your clement wrote it or did he?I'm not aware of what you may be referring to. But beware of blasphemy. He who speaks against the Church, speaks against Christ.
wolf,
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the set apart spirit hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
try this;
repent, release, replaceQuote (Cato @ Sep. 18 2009,10:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 18 2009,07:02) Have you ever given thought to the language… “he had to be made like his brothers in every way”.
Why the explanation if he was born like we were?
Compare it with John 1:1, 14, Phil 2:6-8.
Jesus was not just flesh and blood.
WJ
Yes I do give thought to language; from the same verse, “…in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God…”. What need has God to become merciful (I thought he already was) and faithful (to whom or what himself)? Why would God serve and be high priest to himself?Oh and yes, Jesus is not just flesh and bones, but then neither are we.
To quote the esteemed thinker, “Bang boom bro!”
catoThat doesn't address the language at all, in fact why didnt the reader just leave out the first part and just quote the rest?
And it doesnt address the language of John 1:1, 14 and Phil 2:6-8!
So no “Bang boom bro!”
WJ
Phil 2:6-8 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!
I see this verse saying Jesus had the nature of God but it doesn't say was God and it clearly says equality with God can not be grasped.
John 14, I can see the lines of the Father is in me and me in the Father this indicates relationship but not necessarily equality. In verse 28 however it clearly showes the superiority of the Father “You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
1 John 1 I see a role for the blood of Jesus in this chapter but I see no declarations of Jesus Godhood or equality with the Father.
For what it is worth you have never answered Heb 2:17 where it is clear that Jesus was to become a more merciful and faithful high priest in service to God. Nothing I see shows that Jesus is God, but it does show he was in service to God.
Cato………You have it right, these deluded Trinitarians , create there own meanings of Scripture to support their own theologies, and all the time neglect all the scriptures that show them their error in thinking. Hardly seekers of real truth , they think they all ready have the truth, but deny clear scriptures the show differently. Jesus is not and never has been almighty GOD or ever was on equal footing with the FATHER. He is as you brought out a HIGH PRIEST, a priest (represents) GOD , but is not who he represents. How simple and they (TRINITARIANS) SIMPLY CAN'T GET IT. AMAZING !. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Gene said:
Quote Jesus is not and never has been almighty GOD or ever was on equal footing with the FATHER. The Son is not subject now. Otherwise Paul's statement that He “will be” makes no sense. You have the audacity to say that trinitarians change the meaning of words. Yet it is you who says that the Word means the “intellect.”
thinker
thinker…….The son is subject (NOW) and Always will BE to GOD the FATHER, “the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF”, is that clear enough for you?. The seven SPIRITS of GOD that are (IN) HIM is Guiding HIS decisions as it was when He was on earth, That is what He meant by the “THE FATHER IS IN ME”, if you could get you head out of the fog you could easily understand these things. You Trinitarians don't really believe GOD the FATHER was Really (IN) Jesus do you , you believe HE WAS the GOD that was (IN) Him. Amazing!… Your not even smart enough to realize if He were GOD there would be no need for the FATHER to Be (IN) HIM
doing the (WORK) would there. IMOpeace and love…………………….gene
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