- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Kat,
That verse you quote in 1Jn5.7 has been added to the bible and the later versions of the KJV acknowledge that error.Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the goverment shall be upon is shoulders; and His name shall be called wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting FATHER, The prince of peace. matthew 12;8 For the Son of man is Lord even on the sabbath day. Matthew 21;9 Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord,Ho-san'-na in the highest. Rev 1;8(jesus) ALMIGHTY Rev. 19;16 KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS.
Kato……….The problem here is you piece mill scriptures taking some out of context, Isah 9:6 read 7 and 8, and you will find the LORD OF HOSTS will (perform, this. out of the root of DAVID. Not some preexisting GOD being. Also Jesus Matt 21:9, meant He is (ALSO) as we are LORD of Sabbaths. Jesus is (NOT) THE ALMIGHTY GOD, to make such a claim is simply IDOLATRY. READ 2TH2. Your view are typical of all trinitarians who continually try to push GOD the FATHER out of the picture and replace Him with Jesus, something Jesus never did. While Jesus represent the FATHER to us He certainly was (NOT) Him. GOD took an ordinary Human Being and perfected Him as an example of His power to perfect and deliver us all from sin and death. He did not take an already perfected Being, kill him and bring him back to life in the womb of Mary and then Kill him again, Like TRINITARIANS believe. IMO
peace and love……………………………..gene
Quote (eveh @ Sep. 04 2009,14:33) Read the New Testement. Don't read anything into that you have been taught. Read it for what it says. It says that Jesus is the Son of God and that God is our Heavenly Father. If you get that you will know that Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God. If you read this scripture without adding to it, you will understand that Jesus never clamied to be God. Only God Knows the day and the hour of Jesus's return. If Jesus had been God, he would have known this, wouldn't he? Jesus never claimed to be omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient.
MATTHEW 24:36
KJV
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.The Bible tells us that God does perceive all things, which means that no fact can be hidden from His knowledge. As King David recognized: “Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You” (Psalm 139:12). God sees all things, and nothing can be hidden from His knowledge.
Amen, Eveh!This is exactly what I did back in 2003 (read the NT without any ideas of theology), and I came up with the exact same ideas that you have – much to my trinitarian-upbringing-surprise!
Love,
MandyQuote (eveh @ Sep. 04 2009,14:33) Read the New Testement. Don't read anything into that you have been taught. Read it for what it says. It says that Jesus is the Son of God and that God is our Heavenly Father. If you get that you will know that Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God. If you read this scripture without adding to it, you will understand that Jesus never clamied to be God. Only God Knows the day and the hour of Jesus's return. If Jesus had been God, he would have known this, wouldn't he? Jesus never claimed to be omnipotent, omnipresent or omniscient.
MATTHEW 24:36
KJV
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.The Bible tells us that God does perceive all things, which means that no fact can be hidden from His knowledge. As King David recognized: “Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You” (Psalm 139:12). God sees all things, and nothing can be hidden from His knowledge.
I agree with you that there is no trinity, and when you understand that the word God is a title all falls in place.
I have considered two Scriptures that say that Jesus is God/
Hebrew 1:8-9 and
John 1:1-2
Now should we ignore such Scriptures ore should we see how to take only the meaning. First of all we are the Sons of God and IMO the Family of God. We do have only ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, but Jesus is called God by His Father and John His Brother. The way I look at it, that it is a title. Just like our last names is a title. That does not make Jesus equal with His Father. When all has been subjected to Christ, then Christ too will give all to the Father. So God can be all in all.
1 Corinth.15:28 Now when all things made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Peace and Love IreneDidn't you guys ever just wish you could get the inside track on Scripture? I mean, did you ever wish you could have been in the room with the apostle Paul while he was teaching? Did you ever wish you could have even one hour to sit down with him and ask, “when you wrote X, did you mean A or B? Or what did you mean?
Well, as a non-Catholic, I have to admit that I wished that was the case many many times.
I wondered why God left it up to each of us to figure the whole Christian faith out for ourselves and construct the right set of doctrines on our own. I wondered why it was SO EASY to get wrong.
I mean, let's face it. You have the pronouns “he” used by Jesus about the Father and Holy Spirit. You have “I and the Father are one”. You have the Father “is greater than I.” It isn't written like a catechism. It is in narrative form. It isn't written in a way that everyone who reads it objectively without any prior knowledge will come to the same conclusion. Now I used to count on this being so. It was the only way I could hold to the authority of the Scriptures and be honest.
Just some food for thought here. Maybe we do have an inside track, eh? Maybe God didn't leave us as orphans, eh? Maybe we were never meant to figure all of this out all by ourselves.
Hi CA,
You don't have the inside track but rather are mired in the swamp of humanistic teachings and distant from God and His Son.Deut.4;35 The LORD He is God; There is none else besides Him Matthew 11- The son of man is Lord. 6;4 hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord Phil. 2;11 Every tongue should confess that Jesus christ is Lord. Matthew 15;8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips;But their hearts is far from me. (9) But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandements of men. Matthew 22; 37 Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. mark 12;29 The lord Our God is one Lord, matthew 12;8 For the son of man is Lord even on the sabbath day. Rev. KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
Hi KAT,
Jesus quoted this from Deut 6 tooHe was not speaking of himself but his God.[Jn20.17]
You should meet the one true God, the Father and God of Jesus and the Jews[Jn8.54].
Kato………..There are many Lords but only (ONE) LORD GOD, Tell us what this means, “THE LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD , SIT ON MY RIGHT SIDE UNTIL (I) MAKE YOU ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL. What Lord was talking to what LORD. David was prophesying about the LORD GOD Telling our Lord Jesus Christ to sit on His right side until He makes his enemies His foot stood. This confusion is hindering you growth. IMO
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote “THE LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD , SIT ON MY RIGHT SIDE UNTIL (I) MAKE YOU ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL. . ..This confusion is hindering you growth. This scripture is less confusing (Lord said unto Lord) when you look at a Bible that hasn't removed God's name.
I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!”-Revelation 1:17-18
When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples the mother of all questions, “Who do you say I am?” (Matthew 16:15; Mark 8:29; Luke 9:20). Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah's Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger. Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.
First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in “calling God his own Father, [Jesus was] making himself equal with God” (John 5:18 NIV). In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy, for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God. On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: “'I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God'” (John 10:30-33).
Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: “'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' 'I am,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven'” (Mark 14:61-62 NIV). A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words. Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was “the Son of Man” who would come “on the clouds of heaven” he was making an overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14). In doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but also prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him. Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory. To students of the Old Testament this was the height of “blasphemy,” thus “they all condemned him as worthy of death” (Mark 14:64-65).
Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God. For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, “This very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times” (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:19); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with His disciples “to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:20). Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, “Friend, your sins are forgiven”. In doing so, He claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.
What Credentials Back Up Jesus' Claim to Deity?
“When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, 'Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?' Jesus replied, 'Go back and report to John what you hear and see; The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.'” – Matthew 11:2-5
Jesus not only claimed to be God but also provided many convincing proofs that he indeed was divine.
First, Jesus demonstrated that he was God in human flesh by manifesting the credential of sinlessness. While the Qur'an exhorts Muhammad to seek forgiveness for his sins, the Bible exonerates Messiah saying Jesus “had no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). And this is not a singular statement. John declares, “and in him is no sin” (1 John 3:5), and Peter says Jesus “committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth” (1 Peter 2:22). Jesus himself went so far as to challenge his antagonists asking, “Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?” (John 8:46)
Furthermore, Jesus demonstrated supernatural authority over sickness, the forces of nature, fallen angels, and even death itself. Matthew 4 records that Jesus went throughout Galilee teaching, preaching “and healing every disease and sickness among the people” (v.23). Mark 4 documents Jesus rebuking the wind and the waves saying, “Quiet! Be still!” (v.39). In Luke 4 Jesus encounters a man possessed by an evil spirit and commands the demon to “Come out of him!” (v.35). And in John 4, Jesus tells a royal official whose son was close to death, “Your son will live” (v.50). In fact, the four Gospels record how Jesus demonstrated ultimate power over death through the immutable fact of his resurrection.
Finally, the credentials of Christ's deity are seen in the lives of countless men, women, and children. Each day, people of every tongue and tribe and nation experience the resurrected Christ by repenting of their sins and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives.The term, right hand of God is an anthropomorphism. The attribution of human characteristics to non-human beings or things. We know God is ONE Spirit, John 4:24, Eph. 4:4, who is everywhere, Ps. 139:7-10, Eph. 1:23, Jer. 23:24. So thus it is impossible for God to have a right hand! At least until he manifest himself as flesh. The use of this anthropomorphism occurs 60 (i) times in Scripture. There are 39 references in the Old Testament and 21 in the New Testament. The primary thought behind these passages is it is a “Hebrew Idiom.” That being a figure of speech much like, “he's my right hand man.” In the Hebrew this idiom denotes power and strength. In reviewing the references this seem accurate enough for 40 of them. This would also apply to the remaining 20, although it seems the definition may need expanding.
“Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.”
Exodus 15:6 is an example of this idiom (ii). We know God does not have a right hand! And we also know God did not literally “dash in pieces” the army of Pharaoh. This is a figurative example of God's power and strength giving the victory. This being like one of the 40 references as the idiom denoting power and strength.
Of the 20 remaining, there is one in the Old Testament and the other 19 in the New Testament. The one Old Testament reference is quoted or alluded to a total of 8 times in the New Testament, with the other 12 also relating. This verse being Psalms 110:1.
” The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”
Jesus quotes this Psalm in Matt. 22:44, Mark 12:36, and Luke 20:42. Peter quotes it on the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:34-35. Paul alludes to it in 1 Cor. 15:25. As does the writer of Hebrews in 1:13, 2:8, and 10:12-13.
This verse is the LORD, (Yahweh, Spirit, Creator, Father) speaking prophetically to the Lord, (Adoni, Messiah, creature, Son). While the idiom does apply to these passages, this also seems to indicate a position of reigning or ruling as well as power and strength. In light of the anthropomorphism this is NOT a position in relationship to God, but a position of glorification (iii), exaltation, or deification! Notice the Psalmist said to sit “UNTIL!” Indicating a time when the Son would not be in this “place.” Where can you go from the right hand? The very throne itself!
Prior to his crucifixion, Jesus said, “Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” Matt. 26:64. Also Mark 14:62, and Luke 22:69. Notice Jesus said he would take the right hand place “hereafter.”
It is in the same council where Jesus spoke the words, “hereafter…” where Stephen saw “the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.” Acts 7:55, 56.
It is incredible to note the Old Testament visions of God at this time. In Gen. 28:13-16, Jacob saw “the LORD…” (a theophany, as all OT visions are). 1 Kings 22:19 and 2 Chron. 18:18, Micaiah said, “I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.” No mention of the Son or the Holy Ghost! In Job 1:6, and 2:1, while it may be debatable as to whom “the sons of God” are, (most believe them to be angels) it is clear from Scripture who they are NOT! For there is only one begotten Son! John 1:18, 3:16, 18, Heb. 11:17, 1 John 4:9. Again in Job there is only mention of “the LORD,” as a single deity! In Isa. 6:1, only “the LORD” is seen. Ezk. 1:26-28, 2:1. Ezekiel saw “the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.” And one spake. Notice, these (Isa. & Eze.) were written after Psalms 2:7, & 110:1, proving the Psalms to be prophecy!
In Daniel's vision in chapter 7, there is The Ancient of Days and the Son of man. But the “Son of man” does not refer to deity! It is in reference to Christ role as the man, the Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5), High Priest, Advocate, Intercessor, etc. In other words, the Right Hand place! Thus all of the Old Testament visions only reveal One God! One Deity!
So what did Stephen see? (His is the only vision to mention a right hand place) He does not address two beings! In Acts 7:56, he speaks to the “Lord Jesus,” and vs 59, to the “Lord.” We know there is only ONE Lord, Eph. 4:5, and that is Jesus! So if two beings were represented there, one is totally ignored! Notice it says he saw “the glory of God.” Could it be he saw a glimpse of the light Jesus dwells in, 1 Tim. 6:16? In the verses in the Gospels, Jesus said, “hereafter shall ye see the Son of man, sitting on the right hand of power.” The writer of Hebrews twice refers to this as “the right hand of the Majesty on high.” None of these indicate a relationship between two beings, but possibly to the right of the throne or highest place of exaltation (literal or symbolic).
Another New Testament vision of God occurred on the road to Damascus. Saul is knocked to his knees by a blinding light. (Light again?) Consider who Saul was. Think about his education. He was a Hebrew of the Hebrews. A Pharisee of the Pharisee's, as touching the law, blameless. In light of the supernatural nature of this encounter, what do you suppose he said? “Who are you, sir?” No! He would have cried out, “Who are you, Jehovah?” And the answer was, “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5. In this passage there is no mention of the right hand, although Paul says he saw Jesus, 1 Cor. 15:8. (Again only one person addressed!)
John sees the last New Testament vision. Amazingly, the Book is addressed as “The Revelation of Jesus Christ.” Rev. 1:1. It is NOT the revelation of the Trinity, or of the Father, or the Holy Ghost! In his vision there is no mention of the right hand place, either. (It is important to note that never in the visions were two beings addressed on the throne!) Instead, Rev. 3:21, speaking “of things to come” says, “I” (Jesus) “also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” Amazingly, in spite of the language of that verse “set down with my Father,” never in Revelation are there two beings addressed as sitting on the Throne! iv) But that was not where Jesus was in Ps. 110:1? Or even in Acts 7? Has this happened? Remember Ps. 110:1, said he must sit in the right hand place “UNTIL” his enemies were subdued.
Hebrews 10:12-13. ” But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. “
The word “expecting” here means (Strong's #1551) “to wait, expect, look (tarry) for, wait (for).”
Hebrews 2:8. ” Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.”
Notice, “NOW WE SEE NOT YET all things put under him.” There are many New Testament references to Jesus on the right hand place. These seem to imply a position or level of glory! There is something God reveals as a throne either symbolic, or literal and Jesus is yet to sit on it!
We have already mentioned Matt. 26:64, Mark 14:62, Luke 22:69, as Jesus saying he would go there “hereafter.” Here are some verses indicating he is currently in the right hand place of glory.
Mark 16:19 “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Rom. 8:34 “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Eph. 1:20 “Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,”
Col. 3:1 “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
Heb. 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, a
nd upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
Heb. 8:1 “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;”
Heb. 10:12 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;”
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
1 Pet. 3:22 “Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
These passages indicate Christ is at the right hand of the throne (literal or symbolic) now! When will he take the Throne?
1 Cor. 15:23-28 “… afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Notice this speaks of Jesus delivering the kingdom to the Father. It is important to understand the way God uses language that separates. God has set a precedent. Throughout the Bible God often times confounds the “wisdom of men.” Some of these absurdities, paradox's or contrast.
Jesus is both…
LionRev. 5:5LambRev. 5:6
LordJohn 13:13ServantMatt. 20:28
High PriestHeb. 4:14SacrificeHeb. 9:26
CreatorJohn 1:3CreatureJohn 1:10
ShepherdJohn 10:11LambJohn 1:29
FatherIsa. 9:6SonIsa. 9:6
PresenterEph. 5:27ReceiverEph. 5:27
While it is understood that we all have some attributes that are displayed at different times that are contrasting, some of these are more shocking than others. Creator/Creature; Father/Son; Presenter/Receiver; This is evident in Eph. 5:27, when Jesus presents the church, Bride, the kingdom to HIMSELF! ” That he might present it to himself a glorious church…” This presentation shows Jesus is the Father, (1 Cor. 15:24 & Eph. 5:27, speaks of the same event) and occurs after the rapture, when Jesus begins to reign as God all in all!
Back in 1 Cor 15:23, notice the rapture (Christ coming), and then vs 26, says the last enemy is death.
1 Cor. 15:51-54 , says, “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”
Notice that vs 54, speaking of after our mortal puts on immortality, says, “THEN” death is swallowed up in victory! The purpose for which Jesus came to earth “to bring many sons unto glory” (Heb. 2:10) is fulfilled! The last enemy out of the way!
Another passage showing this is at the rapture of the Church is 1 Tim. 6:14-16.
“… until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
Here Paul says, “UNTIL the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ!” Then he will reveal the ONLY Potentate! The King of kings and Lord of lords! The ONLY one with immortality! This is what Jesus is referred to in John 16:25, as “…but the time cometh, when I shall speak no more unto you in proverbs, but I will shew you plainly of the Father.” What is there to show? Jesus is the Father! The Dispensation of Mediation will be over! The last souls saved. There will no longer be a need for a High Priest, Advocate, Intercessor, or Mediator! The last enemy will be destroyed, and God will be all in all!
Eph. 1:10 “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:”
You may ask, “Who will you see when you get to heaven? Will we see God?” Absolutely! Jesus said when you see me you've seen the Father! John 14:7, 9. The fulness of all deity dwelleth in HIM bodily! Col. 2:9. 2 Cor. 4:6, “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” We shall behold him face to face. The glass darkly we see through now will be done away! Someday ” The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Rev. 11:15.
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:” Matt. 25:31
Incredibly, Rev. 3:21, indicated Jesus sat down with the Father on the Father's throne. Yet, through out Revelation you find only ONE throne, and ONLY ONE (iv) sitting on it! Jesus reigning forever and ever, God all in all. Also, in this verse, you will find a transition of possession! Jesus “set down with my Father in his throne.” Yet to the overcomer Jesus will “grant to sit with me in my throne,” as Jesus reveals to us “plainly” who the Father really is, John 16:26, Isa. 9:6!
Conclusion:
There is One God who is a Spirit that is everywhere. Thus God does not have a right hand! This term is an anthropomorphism. This One God who is Spirit manifest himself to man in flesh for the purpose of redemption. The man Christ Jesus, as our mediator, 1 Tim. 2:5, seems to have gone through various levels of accomplishments, graduations, or “glorifications.” (See footnote iii). After his resurrection from the dead, he attained the highest level, degree, or “glorification” thus far. In this “Right Hand place” he is our High Priest, Advocate, Mediator, Intercessor, etc. He will remain at this level until his final accomplishment, the conquering of all things, “victory over death,” or “all things under his feet.” Thus when he brings many sons unto glory to reign with him. All kingdoms and opposition will be subdued. Then he shall reign as God all in all! 1 Cor.15:28 “Then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.” Matt. 25:31, Rev. 3:21. Then will he show “plainly of the Father,” John 16:26, “I and my Father are ONE.” John 10:30. “God all in all.” Thus He is in the Right Hand place simply awaiting the soon coming “coronation,” the Crowning ceremony naming Him the King of kings and Lord of lords! When the God of the universe is officially recognized by all of the inhabitants for who He really is!
_
i.Ex. 15:6, 12, De. 33:2, 1 Ki. 22:19, 2 Ch. 18:18, Job 23:9, 40:14, Ps. 16:11, 17:3, 18:35, 20:6, 21:8, 44:3, 45:4, 48:10, 60:5, 63:8, 73:23, 74:11, 77:10, 78:54, 80:15, 17, 89:13, 25, 98:1, 108:6, 110:1, 118:15, 16, 138:7, 139:10, Is. 41:10, 48:13, 62:8, Je. 22:24, La. 2:3, 4, Hab. 2:16, Mt. 22:44, 26:64, Mk. 12:36, 14:62, 16:19, Lk. 20:42, 22:69, Ac. 2:33, 34, 5:31, 7:55, 56, Ro. 8:34, Ep. 1:20, Col. 3:1, He. 1:3, 13, 8:1, 10:12, 12:2, 1 Pe. 3:22
ii.A right hand is attributed to God to denote the highest power, and most divine authority. The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, Revised and Expanded, Thomas Nelson Publishers, ©1992, page
99
iii.Many times the Bible speaks of Jesus “being glorified,” or events that could not take place until he was “glorified.” John 7:39, tells us the Holy Ghost could not be given because “Jesus was not yet glorified.” John 13:31, says “Now is the Son of man glorified,” yet the Holy Ghost was not given here. Then John 16:7, tells us the Holy Ghost would be sent after Jesus went away. Thus indicating the glorification mentioned in John 7 had not occurred. Then John 17:1-5, indicates Jesus being “glorified…now.” Some try to say the Holy Ghost was given in John 20:22, but Jesus indicates in Acts 1:4-8, speaking to the same group that the Holy Ghost was yet to come. Thus it seems that as Jesus fulfilled levels of his ministry he attained a level or rank of glorification. There remains another glorification that 2 Thessalonians 1:10 says will happen, “When he shall come to be glorified in his saints…in that day.” This being possibly the final level if glorification, when Christ fulfills his purpose of “bringing many sons unto glory,” Heb. 2:10. “Then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory,” Matt. 25:31.
iv.“One throne and One sitting on it.” The word “thrones” appears 4 times in the NT. Mt. 19:28, Lk. 22:38, the promise is fulfilled in Rev. 20:4. The twelve would sit on “thrones” and judge the 12 tribes. The only other reference to thrones is Col. 1:16 speaking of things created. With the exception of Rev. 20:4, all other references in Rev. are to “throne” singular. All references to the One on the throne are with singular pronouns! The entire fourth chapter of Revelation speaks of ONE on the throne with all references emphatically singular! There are several references, which seem to indicate the Lamb is separate from the ONE on the throne. This “separation” is not literal. This is an indication of the Spirit-flesh relationship. The word “and” (kia) is often used instead of “even” and does not imply two beings. This is John adding emphasis to the fact God is also our Savior! Or EVEN the Lamb! There are many examples of locations in the NT were “and” is used with no intent of indicating two beings. A few examples of such usage, Eph. 5:20, Col. 1:3, 2:2, 3:17, 1 Th. 1:3, 1 Ti. 1:1, Jam. 1:27, 1 Pe. 1:3, Jude 4, Re. 1:6, 12:9, 20:2. There no doubt are more. These all use the word “and” where the word “even” is actually implied. Thus in light of the way it is used in Revelation, speaking of one on the throne, and the Lamb, and then following this with praise to a single being, indicates Jesus is the ONE on the throne, Rev. 3:21!Hi KAT,
The fullness of deity was IN CHRIST.[Coll]
God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5]So why to you teach the human vessel was also the God that was IN HIM?
1TIMOTHY 3;16 AND WITHOUT CONTROVERSY GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS; GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH,JUSTFIED IN THE SPIRIT,SEEN OF ANGELS, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES,BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD,RECEIVED UP IN GLORY!!!
Hi Kat,
Indeed God was IN CHRIST.[2Cor5]
God visited His people.But Jesus was not that God but the SON OF GOD.
He said so but men refuse to listen to himthis literally says;the mystery of Godliness is God was manifest in the flesh, but you say Jesus was not that God-there's only one Lord,One God.
Hi KAT,
God was in him just as God can be in us.[Eph 3.19]
Jesus is the Son of God if you can dare to believe him.
Men change his words around so they satisfy their false doctrinesi thought you quotted about a week ago that heaven and the holy spirit wasnt for the gentiles?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
