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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,07:22) This is very simple, D. If you are claiming “the Father is in me” is proof that Jesus IS the Father, then the fact that the statement mentions TWO should be enough. But if you don't understand that, then the scripture that shows that the Father will also be “in us” should be enough to show you that “in me” does not mean that “me” is God Himself.
mike
Lol Mike,John 10 also clarfies that the father and Jesus are one.
the question you fail to answer is how is it possible that two are in one?
You cant deny that here is soley ONE.
And WHO is in WHO.
IS the father in Jesus, or Jesus in the father?
So if you dont understand that, than the scripture that shows that the father will also be “in us” should be enough to show you that “in me” means that Jesus who is God will be in US.
Deuce,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,07:24) Hey Jack and Keith, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS? You sure didn't waste any time jumping on D's thread to post against me. Why aren't there any posts from you guys in this thread supporting me?
Surely you guys don't think Jesus IS the Father, do you?mike
Lol Mike,The only reason you wanted me back and the reason you started this thread is to try to pinn me in a corner and also force WJ and KJ to try help you as well.
Lol your so obvious.. dude
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
John 10 also clarfies that the father and Jesus are one.
Just as the passage I quoted claims that WE will be one.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
the question you fail to answer is how is it possible that two are in one?
I didn't know you asked that question…………did you?
The Father, who Jesus repeatedly says is IN HEAVEN, was not literally inside the body of Jesus on earth. It is metaphoric and poetic way to imply the Father is beside Jesus in all he was doing – helping him, teaching him, supporting him, and strenthening him. It is a way of saying they are of one will and purpose, as some of us will also be.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
You cant deny that here is soley ONE.
Not only CAN I deny it, but I would venture to guess that anyone who seriously thought these words meant two people were really one person needs to have their head examined by a competent psychiatrist. Or pray. Yeah, that would be better yet.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
So if you dont understand that, than the scripture that shows that the father will also be “in us” should be enough to show you that “in me” means that Jesus who is God will be in US.
And so if the Father being IN Jesus means Jesus is God, then both of them being IN us means that WE are God…………right?mike
Hey D,
This is a beautiful song from the biggest selling album of all time until Garth Brooks finally topped it. Unfortunately, this song was also Peter Frampton's undoing because he had a solid following of hard rockers, who bailed on him after he released this “girly love song”. But give it a listen, and let me know if you think Peter and the girl he's singing about are the same person just because they are “in” each other.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,21:24) Hey Jack and Keith, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS? You sure didn't waste any time jumping on D's thread to post against me. Why aren't there any posts from you guys in this thread supporting me?
Surely you guys don't think Jesus IS the Father, do you?mike
I just saw this thread Mike so don't get your panties in a wad.WJ
Okay, I'm “unwadding” right now. I'll look forward to seeing your education work FOR me instead of AGAINST me for once.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,23:32) It is metaphoric and poetic way to imply the Father is beside Jesus in all he was doing – helping him, teaching him, supporting him, and strenthening him. It is a way of saying they are of one will and purpose, as some of us will also be.
What? Where is that found in the scriptures? The Father was\is not literrally in Jesus?Here we go again with Mikes nonsense that goes like this…
“The Father is in Jesus but really he isn't in Jesus.”
“Jesus is my god but really he is not my God.”
“Jesus is my Lord but really he is not my Lord.”
“There is Only One True God but really there are other Gods.”
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,12:31) Okay, I'm “unwadding” right now. I'll look forward to seeing your education work FOR me instead of AGAINST me for once. mike
MikeDon't expect much because the bottom line is Dennison believes Jesus is “Fully God” and “Fully man” and you don't.
Dennison doesn't diminish Jesus from what and who he is, and you do.
Why don't you go after t8 for teaching that John 1:1c should not have an [a] or a [the] in it?
WJ
What a “Richard” you are, Keith. You are in a thread where we are discussing whether or not Jesus IS the Father Himself, and you have to start in with ME and start listing diversions to points that haven't even been discussed in this thread? What a coward. Take on D for his unscriptural belief for once.
And then listen to the Peter Frampton song and answer the question I asked D about it. If you still have comprehension problems after that, ask me what you need to know.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,11:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,12:31) Okay, I'm “unwadding” right now. I'll look forward to seeing your education work FOR me instead of AGAINST me for once. mike
MikeDon't expect much because the bottom line is Dennison believes Jesus is “Fully God” and “Fully man” and you don't.
Dennison doesn't diminish Jesus from what and who he is, and you do.
Why don't you go after t8 for teaching that John 1:1c should not have an [a] or a [the] in it?
WJ
We've had that discussion twice now. He acknowledges the “a”, but doesn't prefer it. What is left to discuss?You, on the other hand are a coward. I wish you would have received the pm I sent to D last night about that. I added you to the send list, but apparently I did it wrong.
But I was railing against him about how as long as “Jesus is God” is the final result, you guys don't even care about scriptural truth. You'd rather let D think that Jesus is THE FATHER just because the final conclusion is “Jesus is God”.
How stupid, man. It says alot about you and what your goals are. It says your goals are not to explain scriptural truth to others, but just to align yourselves with others who come to the conclusion that “Jesus is God”, no matter how unscripturally they arrive at that conclusion.
COWARD.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,12:40) What a “Richard” you are, Keith. You are in a thread where we are discussing whether or not Jesus IS the Father Himself, and you have to start in with ME and start listing diversions to points that haven't even been discussed in this thread? What a coward. Take on D for his unscriptural belief for once. And then listen to the Peter Frampton song and answer the question I asked D about it. If you still have comprehension problems after that, ask me what you need to know.
mike
MikeYou take on t8 for his differences and I will think about your point. Other than that you are only blowing smoke to me.
Calling one a coward doesn't make it so in fact it sounds like JA trying to bully someone into doing or saying something. That is very immature and weak indeed.
Dennison is on our team Mike. Sorry you don't like that but he is in the Jesus is “Almighty God” camp.
But let me say “Hey Dennison I don't think Jesus is the same person as the Father but surely everything the Father is Jesus is in nature”.
Feel better old man?
WJ
Hi All
Mike says…
“You, on the other hand are a coward———->
How stupid, man. It says alot about you and what your goals are———-> COWARD.“
Is this kind of slander allowed for a moderator or any one for that matter?
What gives? Are we now going to be forced to level debate against someone who disagrees on a particular point?
“What kind of high-minded, self indulging, dictator crap is this Mike?”
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,04:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,21:24) Hey Jack and Keith, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS? You sure didn't waste any time jumping on D's thread to post against me. Why aren't there any posts from you guys in this thread supporting me?
Surely you guys don't think Jesus IS the Father, do you?mike
I just saw this thread Mike so don't get your panties in a wad.WJ
“Don't get your panties in a wad.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,12:19) Hi All Mike says…
“You, on the other hand are a coward———->
How stupid, man. It says alot about you and what your goals are———-> COWARD.“
Is this kind of slander allowed for a moderator or any one for that matter?
What gives? Are we now going to be forced to level debate against someone who disagrees on a particular point?
“What kind of high-minded, self indulging, dictator crap is this Mike?”
WJ
JWstop crying ,you just look for attention ok I see what I can do ,
first Christ is not God the father by any mean,because he was created,anyone created is so inferior and dependable of the one who create them,it does not matter what title they receive ,
just has Obama is the president and put in function many ministers but they never will be equal to him.
God does not create another God,
you guys are rolling dices
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2011,21:01) JW stop crying ,you just look for attention ok I see what I can do ,
That's funny, Pierre. Keith, it is clear from your whining that I was right on with what I said. You have basically admitted that you don't really care about scriptural truth, as long as someone ends up thinking Jesus is God. How lame.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,12:19) Is this kind of slander allowed for a moderator or any one for that matter?
I keep telling you that it's only “slander” if I'm speaking dishonestly about you. I haven't.For example, when Jack suggests I deceptively didn't quote all of the context when I clearly did, that is slander.
See the difference?
mike
Quote (terraricca @ April 03 2011,08:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,12:19) Hi All Mike says…
“You, on the other hand are a coward———->
How stupid, man. It says alot about you and what your goals are———-> COWARD.“
Is this kind of slander allowed for a moderator or any one for that matter?
What gives? Are we now going to be forced to level debate against someone who disagrees on a particular point?
“What kind of high-minded, self indulging, dictator crap is this Mike?”
WJ
JWstop crying ,you just look for attention ok I see what I can do ,
first Christ is not God the father by any mean,because he was created,anyone created is so inferior and dependable of the one who create them,it does not matter what title they receive ,
just has Obama is the president and put in function many ministers but they never will be equal to him.
God does not create another God,
you guys are rolling dices
Pierre
Where does it say that Jesus was created??thats not biblical.
JESUS CREATED YOU FYI!
roll your dice with that one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,09:32) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
John 10 also clarfies that the father and Jesus are one.
Just as the passage I quoted claims that WE will be one.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
the question you fail to answer is how is it possible that two are in one?
I didn't know you asked that question…………did you? The Father, who Jesus repeatedly says is IN HEAVEN, was not literally inside the body of Jesus on earth. It is metaphoric and poetic way to imply the Father is beside Jesus in all he was doing – helping him, teaching him, supporting him, and strenthening him. It is a way of saying they are of one will and purpose, as some of us will also be.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
You cant deny that here is soley ONE.
Not only CAN I deny it, but I would venture to guess that anyone who seriously thought these words meant two people were really one person needs to have their head examined by a competent psychiatrist. Or pray. Yeah, that would be better yet.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:31)
So if you dont understand that, than the scripture that shows that the father will also be “in us” should be enough to show you that “in me” means that Jesus who is God will be in US.
And so if the Father being IN Jesus means Jesus is God, then both of them being IN us means that WE are God…………right?mike
Mike
Stick to one scripture, because I will also use that eventually as my proof text.
Stick to the context.Quote Just as the passage I quoted claims that WE will be one.
So than you condeded your point, and must agree with me.
You see how you avoided the statement?
If you want to cliam John 17 to negate John 10, you cant because your going to end up changing the topic.
In other words im trying to start slow with you.
So stick to context.
Does John 10 state that Jesus and the Father are one? Yes or no?Quote I didn't know you asked that question…………did you? The Father, who Jesus repeatedly says is IN HEAVEN, was not literally inside the body of Jesus on earth. It is metaphoric and poetic way to imply the Father is beside Jesus in all he was doing – helping him, teaching him, supporting him, and strenthening him. It is a way of saying they are of one will and purpose, as some of us will also be.
Mike, Thats not what is stated. Your adding it as a metaphor but thats not what is stated at all. Psalms 139 proves that God is everywhere.
Also I believe the prophets spoke about how God will be IN us.
So how can you believe that Jesus statement is not literal?Quote Not only CAN I deny it, but I would venture to guess that anyone who seriously thought these words meant two people were really one person needs to have their head examined by a competent psychiatrist. Or pray. Yeah, that would be better yet.
I actually dont believe them to be two seperate persons, but YOU DO. Thats my point exactly, it makes NO SENSE for them to be TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS in ONE BODY, who DOES EVERYTHING THE FATHER WILLS.
So therefore, one must conclude that Jesus and the Father are the one and the same God.
So than you have to consider your stance once again.Quote And so if the Father being IN Jesus means Jesus is God, then both of them being IN us means that WE are God…………right?
Dude, before we GO THERE. Lets finish up with what we have.
Again your jumping the Gun.
The same context, says the Jews were going to KILL him because he claiming to be equal to God, and even Jesus said out of his own mouth that he does the works of his father.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:53)
Stick to one scripture, because I will also use that eventually as my proof text.
I have been. I've used ONE SCRIPTURE to solidly refute your understanding of ONE SCRIPTURE.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:53)
So stick to context.
Does John 10 state that Jesus and the Father are one? Yes or no?
YES. Does John 17 state that some of us will be one with the Father? Yes or No?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:53)
Also I believe the prophets spoke about how God will be IN us.
So how can you believe that Jesus statement is not literal?
Answer you own question, D. If God can be “IN US” without it meaning we ARE God, then why can't God be “IN JESUS” without it meaning HE IS GOD?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:53)
I actually dont believe them to be two seperate persons, but YOU DO. Thats my point exactly, it makes NO SENSE for them to be TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS in ONE BODY, who DOES EVERYTHING THE FATHER WILLS.
So therefore, one must conclude that Jesus and the Father are the one and the same God.
So than you have to consider your stance once again.
My stance is in line with hundreds of scriptures. For example, the ones that have Jesus praying to his God in heaven, and the one that says some of us will also be “in God”. YOUR stance, on the other hand, ignores those hundreds of other scriptures and ends up concluding that some of us will also BE GOD. What does “the Father is greater than me” mean if the Father IS “me”?Quote Dude, before we GO THERE. Lets finish up with what we have.
Again your jumping the Gun.
The same context, says the Jews were going to KILL him because he claiming to be equal to God, and even Jesus said out of his own mouth that he does the works of his father. You're telling me I'm jumping the gun, but then YOU want to go into why the Jews wanted to kill him and how one being did the work of another being? D, this is the bottom line. If God being IN Jesus means Jesus IS God, then God being IN us means that we are also God. Are you willing to accept that we are also God? If not, then let this charade end and accept the scriptural truth that Jesus is the servant, son, messiah and angel OF his God, and not the God he PRAYED to and WORSHIPPED.
mike
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