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Hi David,
Are you still promoting the JW one verse misinterpretation applied with false logic that makes a man an angel?Both the Hebrew word “malak” and the Greek word “aggelos” mean “messenger”. In English, we usually try to sort out whether the particular messenger was a human being or a spirit being. If a human, we use “messenger”; and if a spirit, we use “angel”.
Jesus was definitely a messenger of his God while he was a human being of flesh and blood. And, from the first verse of Revelation, we can tell that he was still a messenger of his God after he became a life-giving spirit.
If a spirit messenger of God is an “angel”, then Jesus is surely an angel. He is, however, different from all the other angels, and is sometimes distinguished from them as a group.
Hi MB,
There is ONE verse in the OT that calls Jesus a messenger.
You will need to find more WITNESSES to declare a TRUTH[2Cor 13.1]Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 07 2011,18:13) Quote (t8 @ April 06 2011,15:19) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 04 2011,05:00) When God talked about the Angels in Heb1, did that INCLUDE MOSES, THE SPYS OF JEREICO, JACOB, PAUL, PETER? YES OR NO??
Perhaps not specifically, but Jesus, John the Baptist, and other men are called angels in scripture.Malachi the prophet was obviously a messenger of God and look at his name.
Is John the Baptist a Angelic being such as Gabriel, and Cherubs?
They are all messengers.Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2011,18:49) You first point has nothing to do with proving or disproving that Jesus is an angel of God since there are some angels given other duties but serving as messengers for God. We simply do not have many dealing with them. The angels guarding the Garden of Eden are an example of such. Prophets of God are messengers of God and are not angels.
Kerwin, the word for angel and messenger in scripture is the same word. It is the translators that use these 2 English words based on whether the being is human or from heaven.Same word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,11:30) Hi David,
Are you still promoting the JW one verse misinterpretation applied with false logic that makes a man an angel?
Nick, I promoted nothing.I was pointing out Ed's inconsistency in logic. He would quickly point out that someone saying:
Jesus was a malwak (angel/messenger)
Jesus was the chief or arch messenger, the very word of God.
Jesus is the arch angel.Ed would jump all over anyone who said something like this, no doubt.
But he has the same reasoning with:God is “holy.”
God is a spirit.
Therefore, God is the holy spirit.I was explaining the inconsistency, not “promoting” anything. Nick, if you like, you may meet me in the Catholic thread and we can discuss your beliefs in light of what you believe.
Hi David,
You mean the messenger men would also be angels?
Show me a second VERSE and not a JW compounded fiction to support your theoryQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,13:53) Hi MB,
There is ONE verse in the OT that calls Jesus a messenger.
You will need to find more WITNESSES to declare a TRUTH[2Cor 13.1]
If one is “sent” then he can be called a messenger, right?Nick, was Jesus sent? Scriptures:
JOHN 3:17
“For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.”
JOHN 3:34
“For the one whom God sent forth speaks the sayings of God, for he does not give the spirit by measure.”
JOHN 4:34
“Jesus said to them: “My food is for me to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work.”
JOHN 5:23-24
“in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.”
JOHN 5:30
“I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
JOHN 5:37
“Also, the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. YOU have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his figure;”
JOHN 6:38-39
“because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me. This is the will of him that sent me, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day.”
JOHN 6:44
“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day.”
JOHN 6:57
“Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.”
JOHN 7:16
“Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.”
JOHN 7:18
“He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.”
JOHN 7:28
“Therefore Jesus cried out as he was teaching in the temple and said: “YOU both know me and know where I am from. Also, I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and YOU do not know him.”
JOHN 7:33
“Therefore Jesus said: “I continue a little while longer with YOU before I go to him that sent me.”
JOHN 8:16-17
“And yet if I do judge, my judgment is truthful, because I am not alone, but the Father who sent me is with me. Also, in YOUR own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’”
JOHN 8:26
“I have many things to speak concerning YOU and to pass judgment upon. As a matter of fact, he that sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.””
JOHN 8:29
“And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.””
JOHN 8:42
“Jesus said to them: “If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.”
JOHN 9:4
“We must work the works of him that sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work.”
JOHN 12:44-45
“However, Jesus cried out and said: “He that puts faith in me puts faith, not in me [only], but in him [also] that sent me; and he that beholds me beholds [also] him that sent me.”
JOHN 12:49
“because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.”
JOHN 13:20
“Most truly I say to YOU, He that receives anyone I send receives me [also]. In turn he that receives me, receives [also] him that sent me.””
JOHN 14:24
“He that does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that YOU are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me.”
JOHN 15:21
“But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me.”
JOHN 16:5
“But now I am going to him that sent me, and yet not one of YOU asks me, ‘Where are you going?’”
JOHN 17:3
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
JOHN 17:8
“because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth.”
JOHN 17:18
“Just as you sent me forth into the world, I also sent them forth into the world.”
JOHN 17:21
“in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.”
JOHN 17:23
“I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me.”
JOHN 17:25
“Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth.”
JOHN 20:21
“Jesus, therefore, said to them again: “May YOU have peace. Just as the Father has sent me forth, I also am sending YOU.””
MATTHEW 10:40
““He that receives YOU receives me also, and he that receives me receives him also that sent me forth.”
MATTHEW 15:24
“In answer he said: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.””
MARK 9:37
““Whoever receives one of such young children on the basis of my name, receives me; and whoever receives me, receives, not me only, but also him that sent me forth.””
MARK 12:1-6
“Also, he started to speak to them with illustrations: “A man planted a vineyard, and put a fence around it, and dug a vat for the winepress and erected a tower, and let it out to cultivators, and traveled abroad. Now in due season he sent forth a slave to the cultivators, that he might get some of the fruits of the vineyard from the cultivators. But they took him, beat him up and sent him away empty. And again he sent forth another slave to them; and that one they struck on the head and dishonored. And he sent forth another, and that one they killed; and many others, some of whom they beat up and some of whom they killed. One more he had, a beloved son. He sent him forth last to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’”
LUKE 10:16
““He that listens to YOU listens to me [too]. And he that disregards YOU disregards me [too]. Moreover, he that disregards me disregards [also] him that sent me forth.””
LUKE 4:18
““Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release,”
LUKE 4:43
“But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.””
LUKE 10:16
““He that listens to YOU listens to me [too]. And he that disregards YOU disregards me [too]. Moreover, he that disregards me disregards [also] him that sent me forth.””
DEUTERONOMY 18:18
“A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certai
nly speak to them all that I shall command him.”Hi MB,
The JWs famously take one verse and using false logic make it say what they want
We need witnesses.[2 cor 13.1]Hi MB,
They take two verses that they think relate to each other and make a patchwork quilt of them
That is how they think Jesus is an archangel[see thread]This thread was started by Dennison to put ME on the hot seat. I've been a part of this thread since he started it.
I'm asking you which verse (or now you say “verses”)?
Is “the voice of the archangel” verse one of them? If so, which is the other?
Quote Hi David,
Apostles are sent.
Too inferential.Quote The JWs famously take one verse and using false logic make it say what they want NICK, this thread, if I understand, is about whether or not Jesus is an angel (Gk: malwak)
Trying to make the argument: 'David is wrong because JW's believe this and JW's are wrong about everything' or some similar argument is basically, foolish.T8 has explained to you and given you many Biblical reasons for understanding that Jesus is or can be called an angel. Many people believe this. Trying to divert the conversation into one of religion, and sidestepping what the Bible says is … foolish, and if you ask me, desperate.
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