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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,21:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2011,21:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 02 2011,20:35) I disagree with you, so PROVE your theory.
SFi am not in accord with what you say so prove it
Pierre
See how it sounds, D?
“I don't agree with you, SO PROVE IT!” 
Anyway, what's left to prove? Jesus IS a spirit being, and Jesus IS a messenger. What more is required to be an angel of God? Paul calls him an angel in Gal 4:14, and asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
mike
Mikethe position of every angel is not totally known ,but some are closer to God than others,some have authority over others etc….
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2011,21:56) Mike the position of every angel is not totally known ,but some are closer to God than others,some have authority over others etc….
Agreed.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:47) So the word angel though it means messenger is not always in reference to only a messenger but to identify a certain race.
Hi DennisonExacty! Mike doesn't get that. He thinks that words have only one application or meaning, well that is he thinks that Hebrew and Greek words have the same meaning when he has picked one meaning that fits his doctrine?
The Greek word for Angel in the NT is only used of a man once (JTB) and we no that man was not an angel but a messenger.
Mike has done nothing but present ambiguity. Pauls own words says “present tense” Jesus is the man that is the mediator and if he is not still a man then he cannot still be the mediator.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) Paul calls him an angel in Gal 4:14,…
mike
No it doesn't!It mentions an angel of God and Jesus. The text in no way says Jesus is an angel.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) and asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
None of the angels were called his Begotten Son because they were not Sons of God.WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,07:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) Paul calls him an angel in Gal 4:14,…
mike
No it doesn't!It mentions an angel of God and Jesus. The text in no way says Jesus is an angel.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) and asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
None of the angels were called his Begotten Son because they were not Sons of God.WJ
Keith,Also Hebrews 1 says that Christ is at God's right hand and that the angels are sent forth to minister to those who are heirs of salvation.
How can Mike say that Christ is literally 'begotten' and be an angel if the Father who begat Him is not an angel? Mike's theology is a BIG mess!
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ April 02 2011,17:06) How can Mike say that Christ is literally 'begotten' and be an angel if the Father who begat Him is not an angel?
OMG I hadn't thought of that, I think you just check mated Mike. You are correct.If Jesus is the “exact representation of his being, essence or nature” then the Father would have to be an angel in nature!
Like begets like.
So Mike how are you going to explain the Father begetting an angel unless you believe the Father is an angel?
That is definitly out of the Watchtowers text book.
Mike's Christology is way off of “early Christianity” and “Modern day Chrisendom”.
But that is what happens when you are self taught and do not have a teacher or haven't sit under good anointed teaching. Eph 4 makes it clear that we cannot grow apart from the five fold ministry gifts.
Hey Mike, since you are wrong on this point could you be wrong on other points?
Is God an Angel? Please answer Mike, yes or no?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,16:20) Is God an Angel? Please answer Mike, yes or no?
Oh for the love of Pete. Checkmated? 
Keith, the HONEST and DIRECT and IMMEDIATE answer to your question is “NO, God is not an angel”. How can we be sure? Oh, maybe because God has never delivered someone else's message.
Now, let's look at this logically fellas. God is a spirit being. Naturally, the Son He begot would also be a spirit being. Guess what? Angels in heaven are ALSO spirit beings. Now, we have three different things that are ALL spirit beings. What makes two of those things “angels” while the other is NOT an angel? (Hint: For the answer, look above in my post.)
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,14:10)
It mentions an angel of God and Jesus. The text in no way says Jesus is an angel.
Keith,I can't help it if the KJV translators knew what I know and what you pretend not to know. Why do you think they added the word “even”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,14:10)
None of the angels were called his Begotten Son because they were not Sons of God. Of course angels are sons of God, Keith. Who are the sons of God that shouted for joy when God founded the earth? 
But the question is, “Which ONE of those sons of God was BEGOTTEN?”
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 02 2011,16:20) But that is what happens when you are self taught and do not have a teacher or haven't sit under good anointed teaching.
Keith,You claim that you DID have a teacher. Yet you post fewer scripturally supported things on HN than Gene does.
I'm fine with my Bible, internet resources, and God's Spirit guiding me, thank you very much.
I'm not in the market for some “teacher” who wants to fill my head with the nonsense that the Son OF God can also BE the God he is the Son OF. mike
Of course Jesus is an angel. Malak means messenger and it can be applied to heavenly creatures as well as man.
Malak is not a race or species as some think. It is an office.
If we want to talk about races or species of heavenly creatures then we have Cherubs, Seraphs, and others and of course in scripture they are called angels because they are messengers for God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2011,08:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2011,21:17) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 02 2011,20:35) I disagree with you, so PROVE your theory.
SFi am not in accord with what you say so prove it
Pierre
See how it sounds, D? “I don't agree with you, SO PROVE IT!” Anyway, what's left to prove? Jesus IS a spirit being, and Jesus IS a messenger. What more is required to be an angel of God? Paul calls him an angel in Gal 4:14, and asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
mike
Mike,
You said yourself that the word angel simply means “Messenger”. So therefore Gal 4:14 only emphasizes that point of importance but doesnt mention that Jesus, the Son of God is a “angelic being”Your playing games mike.
Im not talking about Jesus being a messenger, im saying he is not a Angelic holy creature/being like gaberial, Michael, Cherubs, cherubims, and etc.
He never called any of the angels in Heb1 the Begotten Son. lol.
Thats the point of the text, that God never called any of the angels his Begotten Son.
Even the Angels didnt have the luxery or the honor of being called the Son of God.
When God talked about the Angels in Heb1, did that INCLUDE MOSES, THE SPYS OF JEREICO, JACOB, PAUL, PETER? YES OR NO?? Mike can you stop beating around the bush and get to it already. You already know your wrong.
By the way, Tierra rica, disagrees with what im asking YOU TO prove, just shows thats he doesnt know what im talking about.
Because im negating your conclusion, im asknig you to PROVE TO ME THAT JESUS IS AN ANGEL(BEING)The same way your asking me to prove that Jesus is God in the other thread.
So being a heretic and get to it already.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,00:59) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 01 2011,20:47) So the word angel though it means messenger is not always in reference to only a messenger but to identify a certain race.
Hi DennisonExacty! Mike doesn't get that. He thinks that words have only one application or meaning, well that is he thinks that Hebrew and Greek words have the same meaning when he has picked one meaning that fits his doctrine?
The Greek word for Angel in the NT is only used of a man once (JTB) and we no that man was not an angel but a messenger.
Mike has done nothing but present ambiguity. Pauls own words says “present tense” Jesus is the man that is the mediator and if he is not still a man then he cannot still be the mediator.
WJ
WJ,He is doing that in purpose. Look at this statement he says here.
Quote asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
Than again, I could be included in that statement just because I deliver a message from God. So Did God call me his begotten son???Anyone could be included in that statement if one believes that angel only means messenger.
ITs a diversion……..
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ April 03 2011,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 03 2011,07:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) Paul calls him an angel in Gal 4:14,…
mike
No it doesn't!It mentions an angel of God and Jesus. The text in no way says Jesus is an angel.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2011,22:34) and asks which one of the angels God called His begotten Son in Hebrews 1. Well D? Which one of the angels DID God call his begotten Son? It was Jesus, wasn't it?
None of the angels were called his Begotten Son because they were not Sons of God.WJ
Keith,Also Hebrews 1 says that Christ is at God's right hand and that the angels are sent forth to minister to those who are heirs of salvation.
How can Mike say that Christ is literally 'begotten' and be an angel if the Father who begat Him is not an angel? Mike's theology is a BIG mess!
Jack
Plus Jesus Christ has the 7 spirits of God, and the one who sits upon the throne has the 7 spirits of God before the throne.Mike theology is topsy tervy
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2011,05:58) Guess what? Angels in heaven are ALSO spirit beings. Now, we have three different things that are ALL spirit beings. What makes two of those things “angels” while the other is NOT an angel? (Hint: For the answer, look above in my post.) mike
What Angels in Heaven Mike??? does that include moses???Angel only means “Messenger” mike
Quote (t8 @ April 03 2011,10:21) Of course Jesus is an angel. Malak means messenger and it can be applied to heavenly creatures as well as man. Malak is not a race or species as some think. It is an office.
If we want to talk about races or species of heavenly creatures then we have Cherubs, Seraphs, and others and of course in scripture they are called angels because they are messengers for God.
I thought that meant KING?source???
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:00)
Im not talking about Jesus being a messenger, im saying he is not a Angelic holy creature/being like gaberial, Michael, Cherubs, cherubims, and etc.
And you are right, to a degree. For those others were created BY God THROUGH the separate being of the Son of God. The Son of God is the only angel of God who is said to be begotten by God. The Son of God is the only one who has been exalted, BY HIS GOD, to sit at the right hand of his God.
The Son of God is the only angel who has been GIVEN BY HIS GOD, all power and authority. He is the only one said to rule as our PRINCE, while YHWH will be our GOD. He is the only one to be King of kings and Lord of lords.So you are right, D. There are many differences between Jesus and the other angels, just like Pierre pointed out that there are differences even BETWEEN the other angels.
But Jesus IS a heavenly spirit being who DOES serve as a messenger to his God…………just LIKE all the other angels. So you are right in asserting the difference between Jesus and the others, but you are mistaken in claiming that Jesus isn't also an angel.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:00)
He never called any of the angels in Heb1 the Begotten Son.
But that's not really what it says, right? Paul asks which ONE of the angels is the only one who is God's begotten Son. For all angels are sons of God, but only one is said to be begotten.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:00)
When God talked about the Angels in Heb1, did that INCLUDE MOSES, THE SPYS OF JEREICO, JACOB, PAUL, PETER? YES OR NO??
I can't answer for SURE D, because the answer just isn't there that I can see. I would ASSUME from the following verses that Paul is speaking ONLY of the heavenly spirit angels in Heb 1, but who can be sure?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:00)
im asknig you to PROVE TO ME THAT JESUS IS AN ANGEL(BEING)
D, I don't know what else to say. Jesus is greater than any of the other angels, but he is a spirit being who is a messenger for his God. That is all that is required to prove that Jesus is an angel. The fact that he is the only BEGOTTEN Son among the other heavenly sons of God doesn't say he isn't an angel of God, but only that he was begotten directly by God. And that fact right there says he is NOT the God who beget him. So if you want to insist that his begetting makes him different than the other angels of God, you must follow that thought through to the end and acknowledge that his begetting by God also makes him different from God Himself.D, why do you think the KJV conjured up the word “even” out of thin air in Gal 4:14? What conclusion were they hoping to keep their readers from reaching?
mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:05) Did God call me his begotten son???
No. So apparently the answer to Paul's question about which one of the angels is the begotten Son of God is not “Dennison”. mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:08) What Angels in Heaven Mike??? does that include moses??? Angel only means “Messenger” mike
D, you are going to that place now where I distance myself from the conversation?Do you ACKNOWLEDGE that “angel” means “messenger”? I say “ACKNOWLEDGE”, because there's really nothing to agree with or to disagree with. It is a FACT, and I want to know if you ACKNOWLEDGE that FACT?
Once you acknowledge that fact, then you must also acknowledge the fact that there are HUMAN angels mentioned in scripture, and HEAVENLY SPIRIT angels mentioned in scripture. So if I say “angels in heaven“, do you think I'm speaking of HUMAN angels like Moses? Are there HUMANS in heaven?
Stick to comprehensible points D. Or I'll bail from this discussion like I've bailed from past ones where you got stuck and just started posting stupid stuff like this Moses question and the one about whether YOU'RE the begotten Son of God.
mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 03 2011,12:11) I thought that meant KING?
“Melek” is “king” in Hebrew. This is the Hebrew word for “angel”:mal'ak
1) messenger, representative
1a) messenger
1b) angel
1c) the theophanic angelmike
Hi Mike
Quote And you are right, to a degree. For those others were created BY God THROUGH the separate being of the Son of God. The Son of God is the only angel of God who is said to be begotten by God. The Son of God is the only one who has been exalted, BY HIS GOD, to sit at the right hand of his God.
The Son of God is the only angel who has been GIVEN BY HIS GOD, all power and authority. He is the only one said to rule as our PRINCE, while YHWH will be our GOD. He is the only one to be King of kings and Lord of lords.So you are right, D. There are many differences between Jesus and the other angels, just like Pierre pointed out that there are differences even BETWEEN the other angels.
But Jesus IS a heavenly spirit being who DOES serve as a messenger to his God…………just LIKE all the other angels. So you are right in asserting the difference between Jesus and the others, but you are mistaken in claiming that Jesus isn't also an angel.
Here are several questions that i need you to answer.Does God have a body? Yes or No?
Does God have a literal right hand? Yes or no?Jesus is also Human, so therefore that cant also be true?
Again, how am I wrong, when you CANT prove that he is An Angel?
What makes Jesus a Angelic being?Quote But that's not really what it says, right? Paul asks which ONE of the angels is the only one who is God's begotten Son. For all angels are sons of God, but only one is said to be begotten.
IT doesnt say what you say either, its a posed Question. The only logical conclusion you can say, is that the Son of God is the most IMPORTANT, worthy of the honor to be called the Son of God.
But you COULDNT conclude that Jesus was an Angel, or that the writer was trying to IMPLY that.Quote I can't answer for SURE D, because the answer just isn't there that I can see. I would ASSUME from the following verses that Paul is speaking ONLY of the heavenly spirit angels in Heb 1, but who can be sure?
Than why would you assume that Jesus who commands the Angels, who is made a lil lower than the angels (for a time) is part of these angels?here is more texts that proves that Jesus is not an angel.
1. Heb says that he was made a lil lower than the angels. So therefore, what does that mean? Does that mean that Jesus was made a lil lower than “messengers”
Does the following text imply that Jesus was a little lower than “moses” because he was a messenger as well?Quote D, I don't know what else to say. Jesus is greater than any of the other angels, but he is a spirit being who is a messenger for his God. That is all that is required to prove that Jesus is an angel. The fact that he is the only BEGOTTEN Son among the other heavenly sons of God doesn't say he isn't an angel of God, but only that he was begotten directly by God. And that fact right there says he is NOT the God who beget him. So if you want to insist that his begetting makes him different than the other angels of God, you must follow that thought through to the end and acknowledge that his begetting by God also makes him different from God Himself. D, why do you think the KJV conjured up the word “even” out of thin air in Gal 4:14? What conclusion were they hoping to keep their readers from reaching?
mike
Mike than right there it shows you dont have a clue what Jesus is.
This all started because we asked you, if Jesus is not God, than WHAT IS HE. You said he was an angel.
So WHAT THE HECK IS THAT.Now you stated it solely means messenger, buttttt that doestn work to your advantage as well.
Jesus says he is the “Son of Man” son of who??
He uses the Son of Man interchangably throughout the gospel along with “Son of God”
So is Man the Father of Jesus?
He is talking about his nature, his preemience, which is why the Jews SOUGHT to kill him. He was speaking of his nature.To answer you questions.
I already conceded that point, but to me, the word “angel” should be replaced with “messenger” because the context and everything else Paul says has nothing to do with angelic beings.
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