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Irene,
I was of the impression that that we had got over this 'God is a title' – that it was now mute – that when we say 'God' in context we mean 'Almighty God' YHVH, Jehovah.Irene, I think it can hardly have escaped your notice the miriad times I have written my ideas of 'God is a title'… I hardly think it was appropriate to put it back to me as if your were educating me. At the least then, you are agreeing – but look back how often I have written it and yet you now present it to me as if I were ignorant of it!
I have never believed otherwise than 'God' is a title meaning such as 'Mighty One', 'Senior, Supreme in their class', etc, hence references such as 'O God' means … 'O Ye of might' and is NOT a reference to Almighty God – for he is one, the Only TRUE Almighty God.
All other 'gods' are only the 'Head of whatever Class they belong to' but are always under Almighty God for he is 'God over all other (so-called) gods'.Tell me, does no one remember what anyone else believes or are responses to post just knee-jerk.
I wrote a great big long thread post on 'God' – can I take it no one read it or perhaps all the trine-anti-Trini debate on the issue overshadowed it all and others are drawn in not knowing who to believe then they suddenly reach a revelation : hey, here's an idea – Could 'God' just be a title!!! I know Istari wrote a whole long thread on it but we don't read what he writes – we just discover it later as if we never saw what he wrote …!
Has anyone heard of the word 'Subliminal' before?Well, Scriptures says, who ever preaches Jesus for whatever reason that is good then I am happy for them that they preach Jesus at all.
So, likewise, I say, who ever preaches truth for whatever reason that is good then I am pleased that they preach truth at all!Sad to say though. Agreeing that 'God' is only a title will mean that a few debate threads might end – and some people might not like that – agreement is not their aim but only to dispute and argue!!
See, Irene, some people think that 'God' the word 'God', is a person.
Like saying 'King'… Therefore every time they see the word 'King' they say it is that person – yet we know there are many Kings… And a 'King' is [just] a Soveriegn Monarch and what or who can be a such: can we not say:
'King of the beasts' : is this meaning that God is a beast?
King Cobra: is God a snake?
King Kong: Is God an Ape?
King pin: Is God a pinnion?So, same as 'God'. In the beginning there was known only ONE GOD. so there was no need for a name, an actual name… He was just GOD, the INVISIBLE Supreme, the Mighty, the Holy One in the Heavens, the Command giver whom they served and Worshipped.
But then they wanted a 'visible God' and built images in the fashion of their pagan neighbours and the Supreme one was Jealous and Angry against his people who now had multiple Gods.
So the Supreme one gave himself a name to Moses so as to distinguish himself trolleys other so-called Gods of wood and stone or in Human form.
That name IS 'YHVH', 'YAHVEH', 'Yashuah', 'Jehovah', 'I AM' in our interpretation which is short form his everlasting being: 'He is what he is' meaning 'He WAS from everlasting and he IS to Everlasting – he does not change: He is what he is, he will be what he island quite right, if he is Supreme God, HOW CAN HE CHANGE – TO WHAT CAN HE CHANGE. if he can CHANGE, then He is not ALL. Perfect Perfection cannot be anything other than perfect perfection.But others – can be 'perfect' within their limitations.
Can you draw a 'perfect' freehand circle? Yes, but yet it will not be a Perfect Circle as by a compass or a tracer. And yet the freehand perfection is acceptable for it's purpose only!So, also, Moses was called 'God' by the Supreme one YHVH himself, but yet Moses was not God the supreme, but only 'God to Aaron' for he spoke the direct words of God the supreme to Aaron …as if…they were from God directly!
Moses was as a 'Mighty One', as 'a god'… to Aaron!
Jesus is likewise described as a 'Mighty One' for he too spoke the words of the Supreme one directly, as 'a God' to the Jews…
But they killed him: yet, how do you kill GOD?(For those who claim that Jesus IS GOD)
Hi Kar,
Thank you for your support. I have always said you are blessed.Yes, what you wrote is exactly what was meant.
I keep asking for people to be mindful of 'then' and 'now' but they just keep mixing things up and creating confusion in their own minds.
To them:
How is Jesus Worshipped by Angels if he himself is an Angel?
How is he raise above them if he himself is one of them (Is the worker who is raised up to overseer still also one of the workers? No, he is NOW Management)There is this sense of overwhelming sentimentality that keeps persons here chained in wrongful belief.
There is a sense of wanting to perceive Jesus as a good child they can pat on the head lime they perceive an Angel to be a fat little naked child with wings or a prayerful female in a long flowing gown. Too many pictures seen from idealistic painters trying to earn a crust of bread from easily deceived persons of sentiment! Like racially motivated persons show 'Jesus' as White, or Black or having long hair and a beard yet the only description we have is that he was not 'comely' (Of a beauty that made him visually attractive – and of course, that he was whatever colour Jews are!
In fact, it is best not to try and make a visual representation of him at all.
Thanks J. I agree with you. Your posts make sense to me.
And, Jesus…blonde hair and a beard and blue eyes… you are right. Scripture says he was not comely.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,22:31)
Would you mind clarifying what that one word was in the original languages and what are all the definitions of that one word you are talking about.
The word in Greek is “aggelos”, and the one meaning is “messenger”. So when you read anything in scripture that says “angels”, know that the word is always “messengers”. So Paul actually said, “He makes His messengers spirits” and “he became so far better than the messengers as he has inherited a name superior to theirs”.You have to figure out by context when he is talking about heavenly spiritual messengers and when he is referring to an earthly messenger. The Greek word usually translated as “angel” in Gal 14:4 is the same exact word Jesus used for John the Baptist in Matt 11:10.
It ALWAYS meant “messenger”, it's just that sometimes it referred to God's group of heavenly spirit messengers. And when English translators feel it DOES refer to the spirit messengers, they use the word “angel”, even though the Greeks didn't have a separate word to distinguish between when they were speaking of a human messenger or a spirit messenger. You had to figure it out by context in the Greek.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,22:31)
God delivers messages from other people. When people pray for God to please let a Christian call them, for example, and very soon someone calls and says that they felt led to call then you know that God delivered the message. God was the messenger.
God might RECEIVE the message THROUGH messengers or Spirit or Jesus himself. And if He responds or answers the prayer, this is also done THROUGH messengers of God. Get it? God doesn't deliver someone else's message to a third party. He hears petitions, and will answer some of them via His own messengers.peace,
mikeQuote (Baker @ April 18 2011,16:25) Istari! You say that it has been establlished that Jesus is not an Angel! That is false
It certainly hasn't been established, or agreed upon by me.
mike
Quote (Istari @ April 18 2011,17:53)
How is Jesus Worshipped by Angels if he himself is an Angel?
Better hit the NETNotes there buddy. Jesus is never said to be worshipped by anyone at any time. The word in Hebrews 1:6 is also “proskuneo”………….the same word you argue means “did obeisance” in many other scriptures. Why would you think that God's messengers would worship someone other than God?And humans many times did obeisance to other humans, so why couldn't a messenger of God also bow down and show reverence by doing obeisance to the most high messenger of God?
Quote (Istari @ April 18 2011,17:53)
How is he raise above them if he himself is one of them
What do you suppose “King of kings” means? Just because one king is raised above the others doesn't mean that one is not also a king, right?On a side note, did you read my post about Adam being a son of God even after he sinned?
mike
Quote (Istari @ April 18 2011,06:10) This is amazing… I reported two posts for abuse, one from SF and one from Mikeboll only to find that the reports go to Mikeboll for moderating … No wonder Mikeboll never gets tiled and others don't get tiled…
How can a Moderator who is partial be a moderator of his own abusive posts – will he give himself a tile?
What kind of place is this where prisoners are their own jailers!!
I have reported instances and T8 responds. I believe they go to both but thast may depend on the permisions. If you have a complaint you can always pm t8.The complaints I have heard is that Mike is stuborn and Dennison attempts to hoist others with their own petard. I do not think either of those are offenses that violate the rules of this site. Maybe I missed something.
Quote (Baker @ April 19 2011,09:25) Quote (Istari @ April 19 2011,00:13) There seems to be a prolonged debate concerning 'What' Jesus is. It has been established that he is not Angel.
It has been established that he is not God.
It is said that he I'd not Spirit.
It has been said hr is not Man.So what I'd he?
Jesus is MAN IN SPIRIT FORM.
This is born out by references to his SPIRITUAL BODY which he will receive and put off as he descends or ascends into heaven.
Istari! You say that it has been establlished that Jesus is not an Angel! That is false
That He is not God, not Almighty God but called God by Almighty God in
Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstb egotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
In John1:1 He is called The Word of God, and God. Not Almighty God. God and The Word of God are titles. In Ancient times may were called God. Satan to is called God of this world.
Jesus was Spirit and is Sprit again, seated at the right hand of Almighty God.
And in John 1:14 He became flesh…..
Jesus is the Son of God, and Son of man. Our Savior and King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He will come agai to smite the nations
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Peace and Love Irene
Istari! You didn't resond to my post, rather just that I said God is a title…..IreneIstari wrote:
Quote “This has now become an infamous 'Mikebollism'.” 
Man that cracks me up, Im stealing that.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2011,12:29) Quote (Baker @ April 18 2011,16:25) Istari! You say that it has been establlished that Jesus is not an Angel! That is false
It certainly hasn't been established, or agreed upon by me.mike
Ha ha ha… My ribs are aching… Just read the AUTHORITY in that statement.Mike, what message is Jesus NOW delivering for his God?
And God said:'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool'and
'For he must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet'
And
'Then comes the end when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father.'
Jesus is NOW sitting in RESIDENCE as KING.
Mike, I see you have a post in wherein you say that God does not do messenging for anyone but hears petitions and gives orders for others (not a quote).
Jesus is in the position of that same God, reigning in his place just as Joseph was in place of Pharoah. He is not God almighty himself but reigns in place of God Almighty for a while…(he was not Pharoah himself but reigned in place of Pharoah for a while)
Mike, does not Jesus HEAR PETITIONS from Mankind through prayer (Prayer means petition). God has given him Power and Authority to execute judgement on those petitions In His Name and through the Holy Spirit – Jesus is in charge as King. How do you call a King, an Angel, a Messenger?
Mike, are you mixing up SPIRIT with Angel – I don't think so for you know that All Angels are Spirits but not All Spirits are Angels (God is Spirit)!
Then what is the issue that you claim that you do not agree – oh yes, one misinterpreted verse in Revelation.
'the revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave him to show to his servants (The things that must shortly take place)
And He (Jesus Christ) SENT and signified it by his Angel to his Servant, John…'Interpret/Dissect…
God GAVE the Revelation to Christ… Is that messenging – to be GIVEN something?
Jesus Christ SENT it to John via the Angel. It is the Angel that is Messenging for Jesus Christ.
You could stretch it and say John is being a 'Human Angel' because he delivers the Revelation to through his writing but that road would be fraught with technicalities so let's stick to the main subject.
Show me then how Jesus in this context is an Angel of God!
Irene,
I'm sorry I missed your question.
Please state again what the actual question is – just the question by itself.
Thanks.
Quote (Baker @ April 18 2011,17:10) Quote (Lightenup @ April 19 2011,01:57) Quote (Baker @ April 18 2011,02:13) Kathy! Georg said that Angels and Jesus were created they are called Angela, wile God was not…And that is why He is not an Angel…Irene
Thanks Irene,Another question for Georg…
What is the difference between being the first born and being the first created?
Kathi
Kathi! Firstborn of all creation. God is a creator….God creates.
Jesus was created by God, and became the firstborn of all creation.
Born simply means brought into existence.
God created from nothing, Humans procreates from things God has created…
The reason Jesus is called only begotten Son of God is, because everything else God created through Jesus. Including the Angels.Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
This is what Georg said…..And it does make sense.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
That is the big huge difference between you and I. You seem to think that God created Jesus out of nothing. He could not be a literal son if that were so.Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,20:27) Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,22:31)
Would you mind clarifying what that one word was in the original languages and what are all the definitions of that one word you are talking about.
The word in Greek is “aggelos”, and the one meaning is “messenger”. So when you read anything in scripture that says “angels”, know that the word is always “messengers”. So Paul actually said, “He makes His messengers spirits” and “he became so far better than the messengers as he has inherited a name superior to theirs”.You have to figure out by context when he is talking about heavenly spiritual messengers and when he is referring to an earthly messenger. The Greek word usually translated as “angel” in Gal 14:4 is the same exact word Jesus used for John the Baptist in Matt 11:10.
It ALWAYS meant “messenger”, it's just that sometimes it referred to God's group of heavenly spirit messengers. And when English translators feel it DOES refer to the spirit messengers, they use the word “angel”, even though the Greeks didn't have a separate word to distinguish between when they were speaking of a human messenger or a spirit messenger. You had to figure it out by context in the Greek.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,22:31)
God delivers messages from other people. When people pray for God to please let a Christian call them, for example, and very soon someone calls and says that they felt led to call then you know that God delivered the message. God was the messenger.
God might RECEIVE the message THROUGH messengers or Spirit or Jesus himself. And if He responds or answers the prayer, this is also done THROUGH messengers of God. Get it? God doesn't deliver someone else's message to a third party. He hears petitions, and will answer some of them via His own messengers.peace,
mike
Mike,
Not all heavenly spirit messengers were created. There are the angels and then there is the Son and the Spirit, both eternal…not created. God always was a Father.Kathi
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