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Quote (Baker @ April 17 2011,09:45) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 17 2011,14:58) Quote (Baker @ April 17 2011,00:15) T8 I think that there were at least three Archangels called Cherub, in the Bible, at one time. Gabriel, Michael and Lucifer who became Satan. Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Luk 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Exd 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
Exd 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims
Peace and love Irene
Unless I see the phrase Gabriel the Archangel etc, I can't believe Seraph's and Cherubs are Archangels. I also know I contradict myself by saying that since that phrase is never used for Jesus as well.Anyway proof texts below; lesser God titles for Jesus.
Angel
14 And what was a trial to YOU in my flesh, YOU did not treat with contempt or spit at in disgust; but YOU received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:14)
Prophet
” 19 And he said to them: “What things?” They said to him: “The things concerning Jesus the Naz·a·rene′, who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people;
(Luke 24:19)PRINCE
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.(Isaiah 9:6)
@Lightenup: Elohim means plurality in person instead of majesty, are Judges and false gods plural in person?
To all!
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus.This Scripture is very interesting. I asked my Husband, Georg is Jesus an Angel? He asked:” Was He a Spirit Being? Yes, :Are the Angels Spirit Beings? Yes, so now look at that scripture and tell me, is He an Angel or not?
I believe after reading that scripture and my Husband interpretation on Spirit Beings, I say also, Yes Jesus was an Angel of God. The closest kind to God. The Firstborn of all creation. The only begotten of the Father. NOW…Seated at the right hand of Almighty God… No more to die, He now has immortality….
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
Ask Georg if God is a spirit being, ok?Thanks,
KathiQuote (Istari @ April 16 2011,17:58) SF and Mike,
Regarding the 'card' that is cast away… Do you not read that the stone that was cast away became the chief cornerstone of the temple of God!SF, your childish knee-jerk justifies your childish level of thought.
JA,
Oh so are you saying your Christ now Haha, is your status of “Sonship” greater than of christ now?
Oh please Ja, before you guys even knew my age ya wouldnt excuse my “childish knee-Jerk” because of my youth.
Dont be a Hypocrite when you took “First Blood” and I like Rambo knows how to deal with scoundrels like you.
Eye for an Eye
Tooth for Tooth,
Card against Card,Dont get upset just because I won the pot and you got busted.
no cards left to play, no more chips to put it, and all you can tell the dealer is “This boy, shouldnt play with men”
Down to your last trump card huh?
Nothing else left to say, but to state the obvious?
Im Just ASkin, Mr. AskinContinue soaking in your vomit fool
Your just a laughing stock
a Joke for the horsesQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2011,09:28) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 15 2011,21:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,08:40) But don't forget that Jesus is now a spirit being and still an aggelos of his God. So while Jesus once was a human aggelos, or “messenger of God”, he is now a spirit aggelos, or “angel of God”. Hey Wm and SF,
Are you guys on board with this statement, or do you have a rebuttal?
mike
Rebuttalllll,
How is Jesus still a Messenger of God when he rules over everything?
Hi D,Don't forget that everything is under the feet of Jesus. But when we say “everything”, it is clear that this doesn't include God Himself, who put everything under Jesus' feet.
Also don't forget that God is the “head of Christ”.
No matter how high you want to place Jesus, just remember that his God is always going to be higher than that place. And Jesus will always be a servant and messenger of his God.
mike
It says “everything” which wouldnt inlcude God because they are one and the same.
If they were seperate entities, than i wouldnt know how you would fit that in your theology.No matter how much you want to degrade Jesus, Its true that they are one and the same.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2011,20:35) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 15 2011,23:38) Exactly Kathi, Finally we are hitting the crux of the matter
Hey, stop using my words and being right. I'm not use to that.
Stop joshing around!
oh and… So you noticed i been using some of your words! finally! I was trying to figure out when you would notice the patterns!Mike Said:
Quote It seems to me that Dennison was right about this point. Although “aggelos” does simply mean “messenger”, and was used of human beings as well as heavenly spirit beings, the NT writers do seem to distinguish a group of beings called “aggelos” from mankind in this verse. There's also Hebrews 1:14, although that mention of “aggelos” could refer to either spirit beings or human beings I suppose. mike
Mike Now that you Finally Understand the Crux of the matter, And now that you acknowledge that the NT writers have demonstrated the Idea of a particular group called Angels.
Is Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour part of the Particular Group that are not technically defined as simple “messengers”?
And if So what Scripture do you have to prove that Jesus is part of this particular group.Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 16 2011,21:58) PRINCE For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.(Isaiah 9:6)
@Lightenup: Elohim means plurality in person instead of majesty, are Judges and false gods plural in person?
Ezekiel 34:24
And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.Sounds to me like Jesus is someone other than and LESSOR TO his God, Jehovah.
And good point about “elohim”, for the singular gods Dagon and Molech were also called by this term. It is a plural of majesty, and much info is provided in the debate I had with Jack about “Plural God”.
But just for two examples, Canann was prophesied to become the SLAVES of slaves. The first plural word “slaves” did not mean Canaan was a plurality of people in a “slave-head”.
Nebuchadnezzar was called the KINGS of kings. Again, the first plural word “kings” did not mean Nebuchadnezzar was a plurality of people in a “king-head”.
Good post, BT.
mike
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 16 2011,22:44) Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2011,15:32) To those concerned, So if I understand correctly, Paul is stating that he was received as a messenger of God, even Jesus the Anointed.
Quote Galatians 4:14 (Young's Literal Translation) 14and my trial that [is] in my flesh ye did not despise nor reject, but as a messenger of God ye did receive me — as Christ Jesus;
I hate your argument with a passion
Christ does mean anointed Mikeboll where are you, I need your Galatian arguments
I don't see the problem, BT.mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 17 2011,13:45) Mike Said: Quote It seems to me that Dennison was right about this point. Although “aggelos” does simply mean “messenger”, and was used of human beings as well as heavenly spirit beings, the NT writers do seem to distinguish a group of beings called “aggelos” from mankind in this verse. There's also Hebrews 1:14, although that mention of “aggelos” could refer to either spirit beings or human beings I suppose. mike
Mike Now that you Finally Understand the Crux of the matter, And now that you acknowledge that the NT writers have demonstrated the Idea of a particular group called Angels.
Is Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour part of the Particular Group that are not technically defined as simple “messengers”?
And if So what Scripture do you have to prove that Jesus is part of this particular group.
Good question Dennison!Quote (Lightenup @ April 18 2011,11:56) Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2011,11:27) Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,17:27) So Pierre,
Do you think that God only created His Son and all else was created by His Son?
Kathi
Kathiyes mike as it right ,one God not created one god created
worship the one that is not created .the created one is a tittle for differentiate the position of the first and only son of god ,but others and we will become sons as we become under the protection of the son sacrifice.(and so become pure and holy)
Quote I think he meant there is a God who created and a god who was created. We are not to worship the creation, but only the Creator. And take especial note that Paul says “Creator”, as in SINGULAR, not “Creators”, as in PLURAL in Romans 1:25. mike
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
We don't understand the same.I will worship the Father and the Son who are not created but are the creator. The Son was never one of the created gods.
kathiCol 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
The Supremacy of Christ
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven,Ex 4:16 He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him
Moses is the portrait of Christ.right?
Pierre
Heb 3
1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.Pierre,
Moses was a type of what Christ was but Christ was more than Moses. Moses was 'as a servant,' Christ was 'as a Son.'Col 1 15 tells us that the Son was creator not the created. No one can be a 'firstBORN' and also the first of a kind. He was the second of His kind…the God natured kind.
Quote (Istari @ April 17 2011,03:41)
Mikeboll,
I am happy that you so admirably demonstrate exactly what EVERYONE says about you.
And I'M glad YOU'VE given me the opportunity to once again prove that “EVERYONE” is wrong about that, just as Wm gave me the same opportunity earlier in this very thread.Quote (Istari @ April 17 2011,03:41)
You ask a question but ignore the answer that is given because it doesn't say what you want it to say.Will everyone please take note:
Mike has accused another poster (me) of not responding to his question.
This has now become an infamous 'Mikebollism'.
Please see Mike's question in Bold to me on page 29… And my response to that question ON PAGE 29!(Last post)
Maybe I will have to spell out my questions a little better for you. Here is the bolded question from page 29 to which you refer: Istari, is being “sinless” ever said in scriptures to be a requirement for being a son of God? YES or NO?Now, if you'll go back to your “answer” in the last post of page 29, you'll see that there is no SCRIPTURE listed there to support your claim. Which is weird, because this has been my point all along. Remember? I commended you on making one claim that WAS backed by scripture, and then faulted you for adding another claim to that first one which was NOT backed by scripture. And ever since then, I've been reading your posts in which you insult me to the best of your questionable intelligence, but I have yet to see the SCRIPTURE that says being sinless is a requirement of being a son of God.
Quote (Istari @ April 17 2011,03:41)
If Mike would like to apologise then that might be a good thing – if not, then his error will only go into his ever growing barn-store of false accusations.
Well Istari? The facts are all outlined above. Will YOU apologize, or will YOU store this error in YOUR ever growing barn of false accusations?mike
*****************************************************************************************
Listen up Istari. You are back posting on HN by the grace of both me and t8. He asked for my approval before removing one of your tiles. And he also told me to tile you right back off of HN if you get out of line like you did before.
My suggestion to you is to deal ONLY with the scriptural issues at hand and to keep your personal and hateful thoughts about me to yourself. This thread is not about how much of a jerk I am, but about scriptures. Deal with the latter and not the former, okay?
MODERATOR
Kathi,
I was not stating that there were no verses saying 'Honor the Father' for Honor is embodied in Worship: one cannot Worship without also first honouring.
The verse was there but it seemed you deliberately 'Missed it' so you did not have to answer it.
Here it is again:
Phil 3:3 'We..worship God in the Spirit [And] rejoice in Christ Jesus…''
'Honor the Son, Worship God'To everyone,
Please see Mikeboll's post above concerning him wanting to give me a block.
This is how he acts toward those who post good posts against him.He asked for an answer to his question and then ignores the response answer. Then accuses the other of not answering but – when he is embarrassed to find that the question is in fact answered he resorts to threats claiming the other is posting offences against him.
So, answering Mokeboll is now an offence!
Yet, check his disputes with KJ and WJ and SF… See the vehemence with which they post CONSTANTLY against Mikeboll Even calling him a Liar or luring to such – and yet nothing is done… Mike even appears to not notice.
Why might that be: because he believes he can 'Beat them' but he fears me so wants to get rid of me by accusing me giving himself an excuse to block…
Is this someone who should be granted authority to be called MODERATOR?
Still, Herod put John the Baptist in Prison for exposing his, Herod, wrong doings.
And they killed Christ Jesus for accusing them of living sinful lives.
So, if they killed my Lord, how much less should I expect they will do to me?Mikeboll, I answered your question but because it showed you were wrong you resort to revenge!
Resorting to crass questions is the sign of desparation which is what I do accuse you off.
Saying you want an EXACT QUOTE from Scriptures is desperately Crass means if questioning and shows you have nothing else to say… Just learn to give in.Good advice on 'graceful backdown' is not a negative commment – perhaps if you learnt how to take advice while you were growing up you wouldn't now be in dispute with every single person in this forum (Even as you go out of your way to seem to agree – for show purposes as you have done in very recent posts…!)
Someone wrote somewhere that 'Narcissists can't take criticism – they love their own voice (views) too much'!
Mikeboll,
It is you who cannot hold to scriptures. You torture them for your own purpose until they are unrecognisable.
You delude yourself because of your own selfishness turning every good thing into dispute wishing only to hear your own view which are only distortions of reality.
Time and time again I ask you to measure your ideas against Scrupture timeline yet you fear to! Why… Only one answer – that you have tried and know that they don't fit.
That is why you seek to block me – because you fear that your weak opponents will see you wilt before the force of truth and reality.
T8 is keeping you here because you are a source of amusement – everyone is laughing at you and we turn up to read your comedy posts.
Yes, Mike, I laugh so much at your posts my jaw aches some nights…especially with that other sad poster with the mind that should be locked up in jail (SF) never mind claiming to be debating Godly Scriptural truths…
You want to block me for what? Because you can't simply accept that you have reached rock bottom on a point where usually you can weedle your way out.
Point by point – yes or no.. You want to be the driver in every debate, every discussion, every thread… No one knows anything except you and even when you know nothing you still proffer your views and then cover yourself by STATING you don't know. Well, of you DON'T KNOW then why are you proffering a response:
Question: “Hey, what is a shakalcal”?
Mikeboll: 'Its a …. And it … So YOU HAVE to prove it – one point at a time – But actually I don't really know'
Answer: 'Ha ha – I just made it up – sorry Geeza!'SF – maybe your poison will seep out of you in time (But somehow I doubt it – you seem to enjoy the symptoms of the venom!)
Drama queen wrote:
Quote especially with that other sad poster with the mind that should be locked up in jail (SF) never mind claiming to be debating Godly Scriptural truths… SF – maybe your poison will seep out of you in time (But somehow I doubt it – you seem to enjoy the symptoms of the venom!)
Yet he has nothing to say against my comments about him? He must agree.
dont be a heretic JA, there is no debate within “Godly truths”, its just simply the Truth.Maybe i should change my alias too “Simply Truth”
You have fangs of a serpent buddy, venom is part of your flowDont hang yourself like Judas did
Is this guy (sf) for real: who is this person?
SF, what is yOur problem. Who are you,,, no, what are you!you and mike make perfect companions
Whats your beef dude?
Mike and SF,
I am reporting your posts to Heaven as abusive…
If this is how T8 wants his forum run – by a childish ignoramus who feels he alone has all Scriotures – who says Jesus is God and argues against those who say Jesus is God!! But can't stand up to rigorous debate because he lost a point – oh poor him! A wetsop wielding a shotgun given the authority of a sherif!!
Mike takes a point to the nth degree to try to win a point – Scriotures says such a one is to be Given a wide berth as disputing is all they do – and mike shows that he cannot accept any response other than that which HE AGREES WITH otherwise he picks a frivolous point and starts a 'Yes or No' EXACT Scripture word… Question and answer session that never gets last first base…
I guess mike never heard of Recursion… Oh, yeah, you guys gonna tell me i know nothing about it and anyway I'm wrong and … Actually you dont know but I must be wrong.
And SF, your childish trick of throwing back whatever someone throws at you is just that – childish – but then again you say yourself that you are just that …
You are learning from your venomous pals here – I don't try to stop you because it is obvious that your childishness finds ignorance amusing – it even makes you look clever in the eyes of ignorance ones.I see your posts and I also see you are only posting for a joke. You don't actually believe what you post – all is just for a laugh… No matter what is posted to you you always have a synical comeback because it is how you cover yourself for your ignorance.
For mike to be debating with you and not know that it is futile says a lot about his judgement. – but then Debating is all about never ending arguments so the two of you are perfect: perfect 'bed fellows'!
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