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Kathi,
You comment about pronoun to Mike…
This what Mike has learnt during his disputes with the Trinitarians: how to make subtle changes to words, adding or removing words, or ignoring PARTS of what was said to him in order to try and make a point that he can't refute…
The reader needs to be very observant as you have done here else they get swept off with the changed reading.
My advice: Ask a question and seek ONLY THAT ANSWER. Ignore deviations! Rephrase wayward responses.Quote (Istari @ April 16 2011,14:11)
Mike, Jesus IS NOW… King, no longer Angel, nor prophet (Everyone who worship's God is 'Serving' God).
Jesus WAS the King of the Jews even on the earth. Jesus REMAINED a prophet of his God even after he was exalted, as proven by Rev 1:1. Jesus is a heavenly spirit being who delivers messages from his God to others, and therefore still an angel.Quote (Istari @ April 16 2011,14:11)
Jesus NOW is First over Creation, being the First born from the dead.
Jesus has been the firstborn of all creation ever since he was born. Paul says he must be the firstborn, since all other things were created through him. (Col 1:15-16)Quote (Istari @ April 16 2011,14:11)
Every reference to Jesus should be checked against the time period the reference refers to
I agree. But some things that Jesus WAS are things that Jesus STILL IS. Like the only begotten Son of God.
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,14:20) Cody is first your son and therefore your housemate. Not the other way around.
Okay, so I DID understand the point you were making. I just feel it is a “non-point”.Being my son isn't a requirement for being my housemate. Jesus IS Son and prophet and shepherd and messenger, but he isn't any of those things ONLY because he was first God's Son.
The first thing doesn't have anything to do with the others, nor is it a requirement for being any of those other things.
mike
Quote (Istari @ April 16 2011,14:23) Yes Mike,
It is not to Angels… Therefore Jesus NOW NOT an Angel!
Well, I guess you could say that based on that scripture………….which btw I brought up because my goal is not to be “right”, but to speak scriptural truth.But you must also then acknowledge that Jesus IS a spirit being who delivers messages from his God, and in that respect, he IS an angel.
I don't know the answer, Istari. I can only ask God for guidance and form the best understanding possible from the available scriptures.
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,14:25) Mike, Quote That's a good scripture for you to remember when you're worshipping the Son OF God as if he were God Himself. I worship the Son of God as if He were the begotten God Himself, along with the God who beget Him. I thought you could get that straight by now.
Kathi
Oh yes, I forgot that you have two Gods that you worship.mike
Quote (Istari @ April 16 2011,14:36) My advice: Ask a question and seek ONLY THAT ANSWER. Ignore deviations! Rephrase wayward responses. 
I've been BEGGING you to do it that way for over a year now! Ask A question, that is not hidden in the middle of a bunch of insults and “world according to JA” crap, and I will answer it and even show the scriptural support for the reason I answered it the way I did.
What did you think the Q and A debate was all about? It was about me asking ONE question of you, you answering that ONE question, and asking ONE of your own.
Here's an example:
Istari, is being “sinless” ever said in scriptures to be a requirement for being a son of God? YES or NO?
mike
Kathi,
You see what I mean.Even when Mike can't find anything to disagree with he still finds some side issue to continue his high and mighty 'I will not lose an argument' stance.
Kathi, What Mike is saying is 'Thank you Kathi, I was wrong and you were right!'
But don't worry, Kathi, tomorrow Mike will be saying exactly what you spent so much time and effort convincing him of as if he had first said it himself.
This is how Mike 'Learns'… Still, he may even be credited with the fact that he DOES LEARN… happier and much further forward he would be if he wasn't so resistant to the truth in the first place!
Mike,
Jesus IS IN CHARGE OF HIS FATHER's Kingdom.
It is what Jesus says that is done…
You do remember Joseph being IN CHARGE OF PHAROAH's Kingdom (Fractals, Mike, that's what Fractals are for: qualification of Scriptures by Direct Similarities)
Mike,
Since when has any of your 'One question at a time' ever amounted to anything.
You are so easy. WJ and KJ and SF have your measure and simply ask another question and it starts a whole new 'One question at a time from you'…ask your ONE QUESTION and don't deviate from an expected answer…
And don't bother with 'Yes' and 'No' answers, only an unwary person would fall for that trick… Mike, even you … Yes, even you know why not!Mike,
You really can test the patience of a Saint!!!
Which one of the 'Sonships' are you referring to…?
The Sonship that is Spiritual cannot be gained if one is sinful that is why one must put off the flesh and be reborn.
This then makes one a Sinless SON, a Begotten Son, raised up, Reborn.Mike, you really are not trying to get it, are you, you are just trying to find a way to refute truth even as you claim you are only seeking it!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2011,15:50) Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,14:25) Mike, Quote That's a good scripture for you to remember when you're worshipping the Son OF God as if he were God Himself. I worship the Son of God as if He were the begotten God Himself, along with the God who beget Him. I thought you could get that straight by now.
Kathi
Oh yes, I forgot that you have two Gods that you worship.mike
Two that are one. Don't forget that either.Istari,
You've now posted four posts in a row with the apparent intention of doing nothing but proving what a worthless piece of crap I am to people who don't agree with you about that.
In the meantime, the question remains unanswered by you:
Istari, is being “sinless” ever said in scriptures to be a requirement for being a son of God? YES or NO?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,16:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2011,15:50) Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,14:25) Mike, Quote That's a good scripture for you to remember when you're worshipping the Son OF God as if he were God Himself. I worship the Son of God as if He were the begotten God Himself, along with the God who beget Him. I thought you could get that straight by now.
Kathi
Oh yes, I forgot that you have two Gods that you worship.mike
Two that are one. Don't forget that either.
Oh yeah, NOW it makes sense! Our TWO Gods are really ONE God. It has become so clear now. Thanks, Kathi! But if they are ONE, then why do YOU worship TWO?
mike
They are not one in being it is in another way they are one. One without the other would make them incomplete.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2011,16:27) They are not one in being it is in another way they are one. One without the other would make them incomplete.
Kathithey are only one in will and thoughts,but not one in glory ,
because Christ is created by his father the almighty God.
so there is One God for all of creation including Christ and there is a god of creation and this is Christ .
so we worship always the almighty God.and honor the other god of creation.
Pierre
Wow, Kathy I have to agree with Mike and Pierre. There are several Scriptures that say Almighty God is greater then Jesus is. So when you worship Jesus like Jehovah God are you not going against the first great Commandment to love God with all of your Heart and with all of your soul? Jesus is not Almighty God or Jehovah God who is above all, and there is none beside Him as great as He is. We all are one by Gods Holy Spirit, that gives us no license to worship Jesus. Sorry that I don't agree with you….And of course Jesus was an Angel….but now is above them, the firstborn of all creation, and only begotten Son of God….All other Angels are created through Jesus….Lord and King, not LORD Almighty God. There is a big difference….
Peace and Love IreneI think he meant there is a God who created and a god who was created. We are not to worship the creation, but only the Creator. And take especial note that Paul says “Creator”, as in SINGULAR, not “Creators”, as in PLURAL in Romans 1:25.
mike
Quote (Baker @ April 16 2011,18:27) Wow, Kathy I have to agree with Mike and Pierre. There are several Scriptures that say Almighty God is greater then Jesus is. So when you worship Jesus like Jehovah God are you not going against the first great Commandment to love God with all of your Heart and with all of your soul? Jesus is not Almighty God or Jehovah God who is above all, and there is none beside Him as great as He is. We all are one by Gods Holy Spirit, that gives us no license to worship Jesus. Sorry that I don't agree with you….And of course Jesus was an Angel….but now is above them, the firstborn of all creation, and only begotten Son of God….All other Angels are created through Jesus….Lord and King, not LORD Almighty God. There is a big difference….
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
The Father is greater than the Son and also is incomplete without the Son. God was always complete though, there was always a Father and a Son, the Son just hadn't always been begotten. My view, God is the Father but in His fullness, He is Father AND Son together with their Spirit. God never existed in less than a complete manner.I worship God in His fullness…Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
That is what I understand.
Kathi
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