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Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 09 2011,12:06) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2011,03:24) Charles Quote Pierre,
John 3;13
With every respect to what you read,the only two most old and reliable scriptures are:Douay-Rheims Bible, and King James Version,and they both state as I posted,the rest are all purposely corrupted in order to create their own religion,and strengthen their man made god.
so could you justify your claim that it create a man made god ?
Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. NIV
Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.KJV
Jn 3:13 For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.NLT
JN 3:13 “ No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.NASV
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;KJVso show me
Pierre
Pierre,
It's no use argue about scriptures, but to me I cannot see why, since there were two great bibles so old like KJV,and DRBV,there was any need to produce so many versions if not to confuse readers,and also to quench there thirst of establishing a new belief, and create different God, Jesus and the rest.I concluded to rely on DRB,and KJV,after all the rest are derived from the KJV
although also they are not always the same.
I am posting two pieces of scriptures,from Job, to verify yourself the difference between them.
My insight,which is a reference to Satan, is completely justified when I uses the DRB version .From the other hand if I were to apply the KJV my insight doesn't even exist
KJV
Job 20:18:That which he laboured for shall he restore, and shall not swallow it down: according to his substance shall the restitution be, and he shall not rejoice therein.19Because he hath oppressed and hath forsaken the poor; because he hath violently taken away an house which he builded not;
20Surely he shall not feel quietness in his belly, he shall not save of that which he desired.
21There shall none of his meat be left; therefore shall no man look for his goods.
22In the fulness of his sufficiency he shall be in straits: every hand of the wicked shall come upon him.
23When he is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of his wrath upon him, and shall rain it upon him while he is eating.
DRB
Job 20:18.He shall be punished for all that he did, and yet shall not be consumed: according to the multitude of his devices so also shall he suffer.19 Because he broke in and stripped the poor: he hath violently taken away a house which he did not build.
20 And yet his belly was not filled: and when he hath the things he coveted, he shall not be able to possess them.
21 There was nothing left of his meat, and therefore nothing shall continue of his goods:
22 When he shall be filled, he shall be straitened, he shall burn, and every sorrow shall fall upon him.
23 May his belly be filled, that God may send forth the wrath of his indignation upon him, and rain down his war upon him.
KJV 19 says: hath forsaken the poor
DRB.19 says:Because he broke in and stripped the poor
When you read KJV you understand that the word poor ,is a reference to poverty.
When you read BRB. you understand that the word poor is a reference to weakness.
When you take all the scripture in DRB, it is quite clear that this is a reference to a particular rape. This is only possible when you refer to the interlinear to discover the definitions of house within that context which is a daughter,and build which means having children.
When you reflect on the whole of 19, it is quite clear that it is a reference to a violent attack,on a particular daughter which was raped,and also he wasn't her father.
The KJV used forsaken instead of stripped, which has nothing to do with it,and completely takes whoever is reading in a different,and wrong direction.
DRB 20, it says clear that the attacker was never satisfied,and also that when he succeed in doing what he always wished, he wont be able to possess them.
In KJV 20 although it is quite the same but it is not as clear.
There was no need to take all that hustle regarding DRB history,because I am aware of all that.Thanks any way.
I believe all Churches are holy since they are in the name of Jesus Christ.
He only said believe in me, and you will believe in the one who sent me.
WE receive from Him, what we believe in Him.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Charlesyou can not see or do not want to see what I showed you ,so it make no sense to me to talk with a one way minded person,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2011,15:07) WJ Quote When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus? what a question ,that question is so without sense it is stupid,
the scriptures shows that it is Christ that is “inferior”to his father and God
but you know that ,you playing trucks
PeirreWhat is stupid is someone making accusations when they don't know the scriptures.
“Then cometh the end, when he (Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father”; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 1 Cor 15:24
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, “then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all”. 1 Cor 15:28
According to these scriptures Jesus has not subjected himself or the Kingdom to the Father yet. Why? Because the Father has given all things into Jesus hands.
Will you continue embarrasing yourself like that? There is an ole saying that goes like this…
“Open thy mouth and insert foot!”
WJ
WJ
1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him(God the father) who put everything under him(Christ), so that God may be all in all.
for some reason you have not understood your own question or you misinterpreting scriptures so witch one is it ??
There is an old saying that goes like this…
“Open thy mouth and insert your foot!”
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
Really? Where is the scripture that Jesus was exalted to a higher place than in the beginning when he was the Word that was with God and was God who came in the flesh?
Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,Hebrews 1:4
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus?
No. Don't forget from where Jesus now rules over the creation of his God. He does this from the right hand of his God. Just like when Pharaoh placed all things of Egypt into Joseph's hand, Keith. Joseph still reigned as Pharaoh's right hand man – his second in command – not as Pharaoh himself.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
If the President of the USA passes all authority and power to the new President, according to your view the “new” president is not equal to the one who passed all things to him.
See this post for an excellent example I gave you before………….to which you never responded.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
We live in the “NOW” not in the past, and in the “Now” Jesus is the “Almighty God” who is over all the creation and all things are in his hands and being made subject to him.
Your God was God, then was a man, then was dead, then was God again, and soon will step down from Godship so his own God can be all in all. Your God changes all the time, Keith. Mine doesn't. Which God fits in better with this scripture?Malachi 3:6
“I, Jehovah, do not change.”Keith, did you have any more direct quotes from the first 8 chapters of John's gospel where Jesus himself claimed to have been God or equal to Him? Because that is what this thread is for.
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2011,17:16) WJ 1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him(God the father) who put everything under him(Christ), so that God may be all in all.
for some reason you have not understood your own question or you misinterpreting scriptures so witch one is it ??
There is an old saying that goes like this…
“Open thy mouth and insert your foot!”
Pierre
PeirreMike, was able to answer the question, but apparantly you cannot even comprehend the truth of the scriptures you just posted!
How does that foot taste?
WJ
Hi all,
Currently on earth The Holy spirit is reigning in us, and through the Holy Spirit reigns the Son and the Father, So therefore the Holy Spirit is God on Earth,and the Father and the Son are in Heaven.
Jesus is in command over all the universes through His spiritual embodiment, the word of God,which was purposely sacrificed,and by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Only Jesus is unique, in spiritual flesh, but since the Father is one in His son, also Himself is glorified in spiritual flesh,but through His Son, not directly, and inactive,since the Son is in command.
John 16:15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Therefore the Son is the current Almighty God, and it has to be, because only through Jesus there's tolerance for our evil, He understands us since He was human.
Jeremiah 31:34…………….for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
If it was for the Father he would have eliminated us, but since there's Jesus in command He will leave Jesus to rule as He likes:
Luke 13:7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
The father is like a chairman,and not in a hurry since the Father and the Son are one.
There are still millions,and millions of years till the Father takes all under His hand.
We humans still have millions of years to live on this earth but in a different system under the rule of King Jesus Christ, and His Saints
Matthew 5: 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2011,08:53) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2011,17:16) WJ 1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him(God the father) who put everything under him(Christ), so that God may be all in all.
for some reason you have not understood your own question or you misinterpreting scriptures so witch one is it ??
There is an old saying that goes like this…
“Open thy mouth and insert your foot!”
Pierre
PeirreMike, was able to answer the question, but apparantly you cannot even comprehend the truth of the scriptures you just posted!
How does that foot taste?
WJ
WJyou know how many times Mike as posted those scriptures to you ?
it seems to me you do not go forward but you are stagnating
in the same waters,
you know stagnating water is no good for you,
how is you foot now that it is where it should be that is in your mouth ?
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,07:20) Bump for the “Jesus is God” people out there. What's the matter? Can't find one single spoken sentence of Jesus where he claims to be God Almighty? Here's your chance guys.
Hi old man,
i just so happen to post a topic with questions concerning this.so get to it
“Ready, set, go!”
Ha,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,08:13) Kathi? Keith? Jack? Where are you guys? This is your chance to show where Jesus himself taught that he was God Almighty.
Don't you WANT to show us?
im not mentioned here why? hmmm have i been overloked?Quote According to these scriptures Jesus has not subjected himself or the Kingdom to the Father yet. Why? Because the Father has given all things into Jesus hands. 1 cor 15.24 (Paul A Hamar)
this is the end, which indicates the end of drama of sin and redemption is which 'the adam' and 'the christ' have played their respective parts. 'then' indicates taking place at an unspecified time afterwords. the end shall be culminated by christ's delivering the kingdom to His Father, before which he shall have abolished all opposition, 'all rule, and all authority and power' the two verbs indicate distinct but related actions. when every opposing force has been destroyed, then christ shall lay his kingdom at the fathers feet.
'to god, even the father' or 'to him who is god and father' explains the reason for christs action of submission. the thought is not one of loss but of giving to another what was designed for him. It is christ aim to please the father at all times, and while this historically accomplished at the cross it shall be done finally when christ is able to present a kingdom governed by Gods will and filled with obedient sons.
are some messengers? or have some continue to do what kepha and paul stated, begin to worship the messenger?
in Nick Hassan words, KISS THE SON.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 09 2011,15:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,08:13) Kathi? Keith? Jack? Where are you guys? This is your chance to show where Jesus himself taught that he was God Almighty.
Don't you WANT to show us?
im not mentioned here why? hmmm have i been overloked?
You haven't been around…………..that's why.Do YOU have a direct quote of Jesus from the first 8 chapters of John's gospel where he teaches us he is God or equal to Him?
So far, all we have is Keith's understanding that because God GAVE things to Jesus, Jesus must BE God.
What do YOU have to offer, D-Linquent?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 09 2011,19:24)
So far, all we have is Keith's understanding that because God GAVE things to Jesus, Jesus must BE God.
Ha Ha MikeAnd all we have from you so far is that because God the Father gives all things to Jesus then that means Jesus is not God. However that is circular as I have shown unless you believe that because Jesus gives all things back to the Father then the Father is not God.
Your doctrine leaves out the fact that all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus in the beginning and that Jesus who was rich emptied himself and left the Glory he shared with the Father and came in the likeness of sinful flesh to purify and redeem us to “himself”.
Your doctrine doesn’t give any honor or credit to Jesus for anything and in fact shows your disdain for him by not honoring him even as we honor the Father.
Your doctrine denies that all things come to the creation from Jesus hands.
Sick indeed!
I will be back to finish my response to your last post to me soon.
WJ
wj
Quote Your doctrine leaves out the fact that all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus in the beginning is not what you would do if you where king,make all things for your son and give him all powers so that you can enjoy the way your son is doing things according to your own love and righteousness ?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 11 2011,04:40) wj Quote Your doctrine leaves out the fact that all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus in the beginning is not what you would do if you where king,make all things for your son and give him all powers so that you can enjoy the way your son is doing things according to your own love and righteousness ?
Pierre
So what Pierre? YOU were created FOR Jesus. So bow the knee!KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 11 2011,13:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 11 2011,04:40) wj Quote Your doctrine leaves out the fact that all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus in the beginning is not what you would do if you where king,make all things for your son and give him all powers so that you can enjoy the way your son is doing things according to your own love and righteousness ?
Pierre
So what Pierre? YOU were created FOR Jesus. So bow the knee!KJ
KJbut i do ,after all he is my king ,and his father is my God,
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2011,11:24) I will be back to finish my response to your last post to me soon.
Just make sure the next post stays on topic, okay?We are discussing the words of Jesus himself in the 1st 8 chapters of John, remember?
Your first verse backfired on you, for it is clear that God is the One who GAVE things to someone other than God. Common sense will tell you that God doesn't need to GIVE things to God, right?
Nor does God have any need for someone to place anything in His hands. All things are ALREADY in God's hands, right?
Think it out, Keith. The truth is all around you. Now, if only God would give you ears to hear it and eyes to see it.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 10 2011,13:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 11 2011,04:40) wj Quote Your doctrine leaves out the fact that all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus in the beginning is not what you would do if you where king,make all things for your son and give him all powers so that you can enjoy the way your son is doing things according to your own love and righteousness ?
Pierre
So what Pierre? YOU were created FOR Jesus. So bow the knee!KJ
Jack,Why are you here in this thread? Do you have a scripture to offer us? We don't need you in here talking smack if you're not even willing to partake in the discussion at hand.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
Really? Where is the scripture that Jesus was exalted to a higher place than in the beginning when he was the Word that was with God and was God who came in the flesh?
Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
MikeNope, that scripture doesn’t say he was exalted higher than he was before he was the Word that was with God and was God who came in the flesh and returned to the Glory he shared with the Father before the foundation of the world. Try again!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Hebrews 1:4
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Nope, that scripture doesn’t say he was exalted higher than he was before he was the Word that was with God and was God who came in the flesh and returned to the Glory he shared with the Father before the foundation of the world. Try again!In fact in context the scriptures just before your quoted one says by him (Jesus) the “universe” was made and he is “the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being. None of the Angels were the “Agent” by or through whom all things came into existence or were said to be the “the radiance of God's glory and THE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF HIS BEING.” Of course you have to infer that because the scripture says he is superior to the Angels and you believe that he was an angel that became a man and then became an angel again.
But the scriptures say…
But to ”which of the angels said he at any time”, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Heb 1:5
And…
“It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come”, about which we are speaking. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or ”the son of man”, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:5, 6
It is abundantly clear that these passages teach that Jesus is not an “angelic being” because the world to come will not be subjected to angels but to man and the “Son of Man”, for the Father has not said at any time to any angel to sit on his right hand nor has the “Only Begotten Son of God” ceased to be the “Son of man”.
You will have to do better than that Mike, because these scriptures support Jesus is not an angelic being but is of “Gods kind, monogenes” and we know that the Father is not an angelic being. Your claim that Jesus was exalted higher than he was before the foundation of the world when by him and for him all things came into being is contradictory to Jesus own words when he said he was to return to the Glory he shared with the Father before the world was.
He did not say he was returning to a “greater Glory” did he Mike?
An honest person cannot read Heb chapters 1 and 2 with an open mind and not see that the scriptures very clearly distinguish Jesus from any created being. The Watchtower has done a fine job on you.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41) When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus?
No. Don't forget from where Jesus now rules over the creation of his God. He does this from the right hand of his God.
MikeOnce again you show your inability to exercise Biblical “exegesis”. Once again you look at scriptures through a plastic straw with no spiritual revelation. When will you see Mike that “right hand” is a metaphor of Jesus having all authority and power and ruling the creation?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Just like when Pharaoh placed all things of Egypt into Joseph's hand, Keith. Joseph still reigned as Pharaoh's right hand man – his second in command – not as Pharaoh himself.
Again, you try and draw OT examples that do not tell the whole truth about who and what Jesus is. You full well know that Joseph being at the right hand of Pharaoh represents “equality” with the Pharaoh in authority and power by proxy.Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, but without your word no one will lift hand or foot in all Egypt.” Gen 41:44
So we see that Pharaoh gave Joseph his ring and made Joseph ruler over all of Egypt and “nothing” could be done without Joseph’s word and the only thing that was kept from Joseph was the throne. Ah but this is not the whole story with Jesus for the Father shares the “Glory” of his throne with Jesus.
“For the Lamb AT THE CENTER OF THE THRONE“ will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Rev 7:17
Your selective theology does not take in consideration that the scriptures teach Jesus who was rich, the one that all things were created by or through and for him, left the Glory he shared with the Father as the Word that was with God and was God and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh and now is purifying and redeeming his people to himself!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
If the President of the USA passes all authority and power to the new President, according to your view the “new” president is not equal to the one who passed all things to him.
See this post for an excellent example I gave you before………….to which you never responded.
Oh you mean when you say…Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 08 2011,09:50) Can you understand that the General was never the President of the United States himself, and that he was never even equal to him, but instead always remained a servant of him?
So how does your example of a General compare to a President passing on all authority and power to the next President?Is the New President “EQUAL” to his predecessor or not?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2011,13:41)
We live in the “NOW” not in the past, and in the “Now” Jesus is the “Almighty God” who is over all the creation and all things are in his hands and being made subject to him.
Your God was God, then was a man, then was dead, then was God again, and soon will step down from Godship so his own God can be all in all. Your God changes all the time, Keith. Mine doesn't. Which God fits in better with this scripture?
No, Jesus is the “Same, Yesterday. Today and Forever! It is your “god” who you say is Jesus that was an angel who became a man and then an angel again. That is heresy and denies the scripture that says he is the same Word that that was with God and was God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2011,19:31) Keith, did you have any more direct quotes from the first 8 chapters of John's gospel where Jesus himself claimed to have been God or equal to Him? Because that is what this thread is for.
Already answered and your point is debunked because…Jesus claim that all things including all judgment are in his hands is a claim to equality with God!” (John 3:35) That is why they wanted to crucify him Mike, because he claimed to be equal to God by calling God his Father.
Debunked!
WJ
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