Is God Almighty One? Two? Or Three?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,13:17)

Mike John 1:1 tells us Jesus is “theos\god”.

Hi Keith,

Welcome aboard…………….FINALLY.  

John 1:1 does not actually teach what you pretend it does.  In reality, 1:1 speaks of a god called “the Word”, who happened to have been WITH THE God in the beginning.  But since 1:1 does not include the directly quoted words of Jesus himself, it doesn't fit into the parameters of this thread anyway……………so let's move on.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,13:17)

John 3:35 says all things are in Jesus hands which makes him “Almighty”.

Hmmm………………let's see:

34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.

Does God Almighty need another God to place everything in his hands, Keith?  Who is it that places all things in the hands of God Almighty Himself?  

Also, if you look at the previous verse, Jesus makes it clear in his own words that “God” is the One who SENT him.  And that it is the words of this “God” that he speaks.

I'm not seeing what you are, Keith.  Perhaps you could point out exactly which of Jesus' words imply that he himself is God Almighty, which would therefore mean that he had no need for anyone to PLACE EVERYTHING IN HIS HANDS.

Consider this verse:
Exodus 4:21
Jehovah said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do.

Moses was also GIVEN power by his God to do many signs and wonders.  Moses also spoke the words of his own God.

Shall we now conclude from Ex 4:21 that Moses is also the same God who GAVE him whatever power he had – like you've somehow concluded about Jesus from similar words in John 3:35?  

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Mike

The question is “Is Jesus almighty since all things are in his hands including all judgment?”

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,15:15)

Moses was also GIVEN power by his God to do many signs and wonders.

Did Moses have “all authority and power?”

Did “all things “consist by Moses”?

Did Moses “uphold all things by the word of his power”?

Did Moses “redeem and purify the people of God to himself”?

Did Moses have “a name above every name”?

Was Moses the “Souce of our salvation and eternal life”?

Was Moses “submitted to YHVH”?

Moses was given power by proxy, but Jesus is the source of all things to the creation.

Was “all things made by Moses and for Moses”?

When will your eyes be opened to see that Jesus is the “God of all creation” and that makes him God Almighty!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2011,11:56)

Using ONLY the words of Jesus himself, as DIRECTLY quoted by John up until chapter 8, verse 24, can you show us where JESUS HIMSELF ever claimed to be God, or equal to Him?

Mike

The above is your challenge. I have shown you by Jesus own words that “all things are in his hands” (John 3:35), so that makes him equal to God Almighty”!

Debunked!

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,15:21)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2011,11:56) Using ONLY the words of Jesus himself, as DIRECTLY quoted by John up until chapter 8, verse 24, can you show us where JESUS HIMSELF ever claimed to be God, or equal to Him? Mike The above is your challenge. I have shown you by Jesus own words that “all things are in his hands” (John 3:35), so that makes him equal to God Almighty”! Debunked! WJ

And this is exactly where we separate the boys from the men, Keith.

What you've shown is Jesus saying God SENT him.

And that he speaks the words God GAVE him to speak.

And that God has PLACED all things in his hand.

A normal person, without a flawed doctrine to defend, would read these words and realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God who SENT him.  They will realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God whose words he speaks.  They will realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God who PLACED all things in his hand.

But then you are not a normal person without a flawed doctrine to defend, are you?

mike

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2011,07:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,15:15) Moses was also GIVEN power by his God to do many signs and wonders. Did Moses have “all authority and power?” Did “all things “consist by Moses”? Did Moses “uphold all things by the word of his power”? Did Moses “redeem and purify the people of God to himself”? Did Moses have “a name above every name”? Was Moses the “Souce of our salvation and eternal life”? Was Moses “submitted to YHVH”? Moses was given power by proxy, but Jesus is the source of all things to the creation. Was “all things made by Moses and for Moses”? When will your eyes be opened to see that Jesus is the “God of all creation” and that makes him God Almighty! WJ

Keith,

Mike soon forgets doesn't he? It has been pointed out to him a ZILLION times that Moses was servant in the house of God IN CONTRAST to Christ who is SON over HIS OWN house which He builds HIMSELF and receives the glory GOD RECEIVES (Hebrews 3:1-6.)

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=2521

Yet Mike still wants to continue to belittle Jesus to his own damnation! I would not want to be Mike on my death bed!

Jack

[mikeboll64]

Jack and Keith,

Please stick to the exercise of this thread. We are supposed to be finding the directly quoted words of Jesus himself where he clearly teaches us that he IS God Almighty. (From the first 8 chapters of John's gospel.)

All I need to see from you is a quoted scripture from one of the first 8 chapters of John, and your explanation as to why you think Jesus was explaining to us that he IS God Almighty.

Are you capable of this?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,16:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,15:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 31 2011,11:56) Using ONLY the words of Jesus himself, as DIRECTLY quoted by John up until chapter 8, verse 24, can you show us where JESUS HIMSELF ever claimed to be God, or equal to Him? Mike The above is your challenge. I have shown you by Jesus own words that “all things are in his hands” (John 3:35), so that makes him equal to God Almighty”! Debunked! WJ And this is exactly where we separate the boys from the men, Keith. What you've shown is Jesus saying God SENT him. And that he speaks the words God GAVE him to speak. And that God has PLACED all things in his hand. A normal person, without a flawed doctrine to defend, would read these words and realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God who SENT him.  They will realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God whose words he speaks.  They will realize that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God who PLACED all things in his hand. But then you are not a normal person without a flawed doctrine to defend, are you? mike

Your words are purely circular and show your own imaturity and ability to see the big picture.

“Why did the Father give all things into Jesus hands?”

When you start taking all scripture like Phil 2:4-6 and John 1:1-3 then you realize the only reason the Father gave Jesus anything is because Jesus who was rich became poor for us by emptying himself and coming in th likeness of sinful flesh.

It was all his before the beginning of time.

You are an expert at “Eisegesis” and a child at “Exegesis”?

Your doctrine is full of holes and you serve a Jesus that was in the flesh and not the Jesus who is “soverighn King of Kings and Lord of Lords” over all the creation. Your doctrine is based on “selective theology”!

Jesus claim that all things including all judgement are in his hands is a claim to equality with God!”

Debunked!

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,15:54)

Jesus claim that all things including all judgement are in his hands is a claim to equality with God!” Debunked!

Ah, but Jesus' claim wasn't simply that “all things ARE IN my hands”, was it?  His claim was that his God “has PLACED all things in my hands”.

There is a big difference, Keith.  You claim that before Jesus emptied himself, all these things were already in his hands?  Prove that scripturally.  Because the fact that God EXALTED Jesus to an even HIGHER position than the one he previously held speaks volumes AGAINST that claim, my friend.

But anyway, is that all you have?  Out of the first 8 chapters of John's gospel, ALL YOU HAVE is 3:35 – a scripture that tells of God PLACING all things in Jesus' hands?  That, and your own imagination that somehow those words mean that Jesus was claiming equality with the God who placed all things in his hands?  

How disappointing…………yet also expected.  

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 07 2011,06:25)

Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 07 2011,12:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 01 2011,04:26) all Jn 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Jn 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave, his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John always recognize Christ as the son never as God himself Pierre Pierre, Referring to John 3:13 KJV,it ends: even the Son of man which is in heaven. The one you posted has the above missing. My Point: Since Jesus said that He is in heaven,and in the same time He is the world, it isn't a enough proof that He is God??? Quote Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.     KJV:John 3:13 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles Charles Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. when John wrote his letter was Christ the son of God in heaven ? or would you try to make me understand what ? Pierre

Pierre,

John wrote all those worlds in the exact manner that Jesus pronounced them.

Now read again the full statement:

The first sentence it says :

Jesus answered and said unto him, So all those words are the exact as stated by Jesus while He was on earth on that moment in time.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[terraricca]

Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 07 2011,23:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 07 2011,06:25) Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 07 2011,12:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 01 2011,04:26) all Jn 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Jn 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave, his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John always recognize Christ as the son never as God himself Pierre Pierre, Referring to John 3:13 KJV,it ends: even the Son of man which is in heaven. The one you posted has the above missing. My Point: Since Jesus said that He is in heaven,and in the same time He is the world, it isn't a enough proof that He is God??? Quote Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.     KJV:John 3:13 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles Charles Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. when John wrote his letter was Christ the son of God in heaven ? or would you try to make me understand what ? Pierre Pierre, John wrote all those worlds in the exact manner that Jesus pronounced them. Now read again the full statement: The first sentence it says : Jesus answered and said unto him, So all those words are the exact as stated by Jesus while He was on earth on that moment in time. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles

charles

Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

my scripture is more representative than your,it seems that there is a addition in some,

the NIV seems a better translation on that,

it shows that Christ the son of God and the son of man came from heaven,and so is not God ,

Pierre

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 07 2011,16:43)

Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 07 2011,23:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 07 2011,06:25) Quote (csaliba @ Aug. 07 2011,12:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 01 2011,04:26) all Jn 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Jn 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, Jn 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave, his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John always recognize Christ as the son never as God himself Pierre Pierre, Referring to John 3:13 KJV,it ends: even the Son of man which is in heaven. The one you posted has the above missing. My Point: Since Jesus said that He is in heaven,and in the same time He is the world, it isn't a enough proof that He is God??? Quote Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.     KJV:John 3:13 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles Charles Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. when John wrote his letter was Christ the son of God in heaven ? or would you try to make me understand what ? Pierre Pierre, John wrote all those worlds in the exact manner that Jesus pronounced them. Now read again the full statement: The first sentence it says : Jesus answered and said unto him, So all those words are the exact as stated by Jesus while He was on earth on that moment in time. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles charles Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. my scripture is more representative than your,it seems that there is a addition in some, the NIV seems a better translation on that, it shows that Christ the son of God and the son of man came from heaven,and so is not God , Pierre

Pierre,

With every respect to what you read,the only two most old and reliable scriptures are:

Douay-Rheims Bible, and King James Version,and they both  state as I posted,the rest are all purposely corrupted  in order to create their own religion,and strengthen their man made god.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[ftk]

Mike: I can see what you are saying and in a literal sense, must agree when restricted to the 8 chapters. So, its true you could have an 8 chapter doctrine to build and hang your hat on. In the broader perspective, there is some thoughts that I would more clearly adhere to for my doctrines of truth.

Jesus taught one thing many times, over and over and that was “ONENESS” per the Kingdom of God(the Kingdom of God, for me, is the personal doctrines I have garnered from prayer and study over the years. That's my perspective of God & Jesus & Spirit making their abode in me)! There is no individuality or separateness, in the Kingdom of God, only ONENESS! He said he was ONE with the father and the father was ONE with him. He prayed that we all would ONE together, IN MIND or thinking! Unity of doctrine, unity of thought.

He prayed to the father, sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth. Its seems to me that we are “set apart” from natural human beings and created to be “whatever God says we are through Jesus”! So, everything we truly are is created by the words of Jesus from God given to mankind or “whosoever” will accept and believe what God says!

When we are able to accept what God says we are and believe it as our personal truth we are renewed in mind back to what we have always been, a part of god from whence we came. If we are ONE together with and in God with free choice then we are gods. No one can replace God, it is enough that we be “as” our teacher not better than. God is ONE, all life is in God, whether it recognizes it's oneness through awareness or it doesn't. This my truth I know it doesn't fully align with the thread but I wanted you to read it. Peace and joy in fullness to you, TK

[mikeboll64]

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 07 2011,04:09)

Mike: I can see what you are saying and in a literal sense, must agree when restricted to the 8 chapters. So, its true you could have an 8 chapter doctrine to build and hang your hat on.

Hi Tim,

Funny stuff!

The reason for the 8 chapters is explained in the OP of the thread. Because 8:25 says this:
25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been claiming all along,” Jesus replied.

The exercise stemmed from those words and begged the question: Well, just exactly WHO had Jesus been claiming to be all along up until this point when he said these words?

And as you've noticed, he had NOT been claiming to be God, or equal to God.

Now, if you would like to take this same type of discussion further, using the very words of Jesus himself, then I am willing, Tim.

But first let's wait and see if the usual peanut gallery has anything more to say about the first 8 chapters of John.

After that, then we can finish John and go through the rest of the gospel writers one by one the same way if you'd like.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Charles

Quote

Pierre, John 3;13 With every respect to what you read,the only two most old and reliable scriptures are: Douay-Rheims Bible, and King James Version,and they both state as I posted,the rest are all purposely corrupted in order to create their own religion,and strengthen their man made god. Peace and love in Jesus Christ Charles

so could you justify your claim that it create a man made god ?

Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. NIV

Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.KJV

Jn 3:13 For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.NLT

JN 3:13 “ No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.NASV

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;KJV

so show me

Pierre

[terraricca]

charles

look here

The Douay–Rheims Bible (pronounced /ˌduːeɪ/ or /ˌdaʊeɪ ˈriːmz/[1]) (also known as the Rheims–Douai Bible or Douai Bible, and abbreviated as D–R and DV) is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English made by members of the English College, Douai, in the service of the Catholic Church. The New Testament portion was published in Reims, France, in 1582, in one volume with extensive commentary and notes. The Old Testament portion was published in two volumes thirty years later by the University of Douai. The first volume, covering Genesis through Job, was published in 1609; the second, covering Psalms to 2 Machabees plus the apocrypha of the Clementine Vulgate. was published in 1610. Marginal notes took up the bulk of the volumes and had a strong polemical and patristic character. They also offered insights on issues of translation, and on the Hebrew and Greek source texts of the Vulgate. The purpose of the version, both the text and notes, was to uphold Catholic tradition in the face of the Protestant Reformation which up till then had ovewhelmingly dominated Elizabethan religion and academic debate. As such it was an impressive effort by English Catholics to support the Counter-Reformation. The New Testament was reprinted in 1600, 1621 and 1633, while both the Old Testament volumes were reprinted in 1635, but neither thereafter for another hundred years. In 1589, William Fulke produced a refutation of the Rheims New Testament, setting out the complete Rheims text and notes in parallel columns with those of the Bishops' Bible. This work sold widely in England, being re-issued in three further editions to 1633; and it was predominantly through Fulke's editions that the Rheims New Testament came to exercise a significant influence on the development of 17th Century English.
Much of the text of the 1582/1610 bible, however, employed a densely latinate vocabulary, to the extent of being in places unreadable; and consequently this translation was replaced by a revision undertaken by bishop Richard Challoner; the New Testament in three editions 1749, 1750, and 1752; the Old Testament (minus the Vulgate apocrypha), in 1750. Although retaining the title Douay–Rheims Bible, the Challoner revision was in fact a new version, tending to take as its base text the King James Bible rigorously checked and extensively adjusted for improved readability and consistency with the Clementine edition of the Vulgate. Subsequent editions of the Challoner revision, of which there have been very many, reproduce his Old Testament of 1750 with very few changes. Challoner's New Testament was, however, extensively revised by Bernard MacMahon in a series of Dublin editions from 1783 to 1810; and these various Dublin versions are the source of some Challoner bibles printed in the United States in the 19th Century. Subsequent editions of the Challoner bible printed in England most often follow Challoner's earlier New Testament texts of 1749 and 1750; as do most 20th century printings, and on-line versions of the Douay–Rheims bible circulating on the internet.
Although the Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible (in the United States), the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version and the New Jerusalem Bible are the most commonly used in English-speaking Catholic churches, the Challoner revision of the Douay–Rheims is still often the Bible of choice of more traditional English-speaking Catholics.

and you say;

Quote

Douay-Rheims Bible, and King James Version,and they both  state as I posted,the rest are all purposely corrupted  in order to create their own religion,and strengthen their man made god.

think again,my friend
it is like saying that the catholic church is the holy church?

no way.
Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Hi Pierre and Charles,

Maybe this will help.  It is from NETNotes:

Joh 3:133tc

Most witnesses, including a few important ones (A

[csaliba]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 08 2011,03:24)

Charles Quote Pierre, John 3;13 With every respect to what you read,the only two most old and reliable scriptures are: Douay-Rheims Bible, and King James Version,and they both  state as I posted,the rest are all purposely corrupted  in order to create their own religion,and strengthen their man made god. so could you justify your claim that it create a man made god ? Jn 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. NIV Jn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.KJV Jn 3:13 For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.NLT JN 3:13 “ No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.NASV Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;KJV so show me Pierre

Pierre,
 It's no use argue about scriptures, but to me I cannot see why, since there were two great bibles so old like KJV,and DRBV,there was any need to produce so many versions if not to confuse readers,and also to quench there thirst of establishing  a new belief, and create  different God, Jesus and the rest.

I concluded to rely on DRB,and KJV,after all the rest are derived from the KJV

although also  they are not always the same.

I am posting two pieces of scriptures,from Job, to verify yourself the difference between them.
My insight,which is a reference to Satan, is completely justified when I uses the DRB version .

From the other hand if I were to apply the KJV my insight doesn't even exist

KJV
Job 20:18:That which he laboured for shall he restore, and shall not swallow it down: according to his substance shall the restitution be, and he shall not rejoice therein.

19Because he hath oppressed and hath forsaken the poor; because he hath violently taken away an house which he builded not;

20Surely he shall not feel quietness in his belly, he shall not save of that which he desired.

21There shall none of his meat be left; therefore shall no man look for his goods.

22In the fulness of his sufficiency he shall be in straits: every hand of the wicked shall come upon him.

23When he is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of his wrath upon him, and shall rain it upon him while he is eating.

DRB
Job 20:18.He shall be punished for all that he did, and yet shall not be consumed: according to the multitude of his devices so also shall he suffer.

19 Because he broke in and stripped the poor: he hath violently taken away a house which he did not build.

20 And yet his belly was not filled: and when he hath the things he coveted, he shall not be able to possess them.

21 There was nothing left of his meat, and therefore nothing shall continue of his goods:

22 When he shall be filled, he shall be straitened, he shall burn, and every sorrow shall fall upon him.

23 May his belly be filled, that God may send forth the wrath of his indignation upon him, and rain down his war upon him.

KJV 19 says: hath forsaken the poor

DRB.19 says:Because he broke in and stripped the poor

When you read KJV you understand that the word  poor ,is a reference to poverty.

When you read BRB. you understand that the word poor is a reference to weakness.

When you take all the scripture in DRB, it is quite clear that this is a reference to a particular rape. This is only possible when you refer to the interlinear to discover the definitions of house within that context which is a daughter,and build which means having children.

When you reflect on the whole of 19, it is quite clear that it is a reference to a violent attack,on a particular daughter which was raped,and also he wasn't her father.

The KJV used  forsaken instead of stripped, which has nothing to do with it,and completely takes whoever is reading in a different,and wrong direction.

DRB 20, it says clear that the attacker was never satisfied,and also that when he succeed in doing what he always wished, he wont be able to possess them.

In KJV 20 although it is quite the same but it is not as clear.

There was no need to take all that hustle regarding DRB history,because I am aware of all that.Thanks any way.

I believe all Churches are holy since they are in the name of Jesus Christ.

He only said believe in me, and you will believe in the one who sent me.

WE receive from Him,  what we believe in Him.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2011,15:54) Jesus claim that all things including all judgment are in his hands is a claim to equality with God!” Debunked! Ah, but Jesus' claim wasn't simply that “all things ARE IN my hands”, was it?

Hi Mike

Should it make any difference? You see Mike this is the problem with your “telescopic” view of the scriptures. You can’t see the forest for the trees. You look at the scriptures like you are looking through a plastic straw. The fact that all things including all judgment is in his hands makes him “equal” to the Father because all things comes to the creation from Jesus “own hands” and also the fact that “by him all things consist” is proof of his equality with the Father. It was statements like that that caused the Jews to want to crucify him.

Think Mike, think. Let me make it “simple for you”! If the President of the USA passes all authority and power to the new President, according to your view the “new” president is not equal to the one who passed all things to him. This is elementary stuff Mike. Once again you serve a Jesus that is still a servant in the flesh and not the “Sovereign King of Kings and Lord of Lords” who is the source of all things to the creation. He is the source of everything to us including our faith and eternal life.

Even a child would understand that if someone made the claim that God the Father had given “all things into his hands” then that would make him “NOW” equal to the Father. Of course if any man at any time other than Jesus would have made that claim then it would be blasphemous to the Jews.

Oh, that’s right, they did say he was blaspheming and that he was making himself equal to the Father. Even the Apostle Johns testimony was he was claiming to be equal to God by claiming God was his “personal” Father. But of course if you have an agenda to promote or a damnable heresy then you would be too blind to see the truth even if it is staring you in the face.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

His claim was that his God “has PLACED all things in my hands”.

Wow praise God, at least you are admitting that “all things are in Jesus hands” yet you say that all things doesn’t come from Jesus hands. More inconsistencies in your flawed and failed doctrine.

So what does it prove that the Father gave all things into his hands (after Jesus left all things and the Glory he shared with the Father and came in the flesh) Mike? Once again you do not see these things in light of Phil 2:4-6, Col 1:16, 17 and John 1:1-3.

So tell us Mike…

When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus?

Do you see how circular your argument is? We live in the “NOW” not in the past, and in the “Now” Jesus is the “Almighty God” who is over all the creation and all things are in his hands and being made subject to him. (Tit 2:13, 14, 1 Peter 3:22, Phil 3:21)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

There is a big difference, Keith.  You claim that before Jesus emptied himself, all these things were already in his hands?  Prove that scripturally.

I only claim what the scriptures say Mike and apparently you don't.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and “FOR HIM”: And he is before all things, and “BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. Col 1:16, 17  

When were all things created “for” Jesus Mike?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

Because the fact that God EXALTED Jesus to an even HIGHER position than the one he previously held speaks volumes AGAINST that claim, my friend.

Really? Where is the scripture that Jesus was exalted to a higher place than in the beginning when he was the Word that was with God and was God who came in the flesh?

My Bible tells me he was before all things when all things were made for him. My Bible tells me that Jesus returned to the previous Glory he shared with the Father and not a greater Glory.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

But anyway, is that all you have?

Ha Ha, it is more like… “Is that all you have”? Your constant campaign to reduce Jesus to something or someone less than whom and what he is, is an attack against the truth of the scriptures. The Jesus you serve is a little puppet on a string that his God pulls on when he wants Jesus to dance. The Jesus we serve and bow down to is the God over all creation which makes him “Almighty”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

Out of the first 8 chapters of John's gospel, ALL YOU HAVE is 3:35 – a scripture that tells of God PLACING all things in Jesus' hands?  That, and your own imagination that somehow those words mean that Jesus was claiming equality with the God who placed all things in his hands?

You are making a straw mans argument and showing how ignorant one can become when they are desperate to hang onto their flawed and damnable heresy.   Just answer the question Mike…

When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,17:21)

How disappointing…………yet also expected.

It is hilarious but yet sad at what extremes you will go to deny scriptures. So what are you trying to prove with only 8 chapters of the Bible Mike? John’s words in John 1:1-3 should be enough for you but even if it is not the Gospel of John by itself is replete with claims by our Lord and God, Jesus that he is claiming equality with the Father.  

WJ

[terraricca]

WJ

Quote

When Jesus gives all things into the Fathers hands in the end, does that mean the Father is “inferior” to Jesus?

what a question ,that question is so without sense it is stupid,

the scriptures shows that it is Christ that is “inferior”to his father and God

but you know that ,you playing trucks

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