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Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 06 2012,10:25) Quote (jammin @ Jan. 05 2012,14:09) hahahaha. christ is not the wisdom in prov 8:22
not all wisdom referred to christ. there are a lot of verses that says wisdom. but not all referred to christ.
in prov 8:22 it talks about to the attribute of GOD!
let me share the context with you mike hahahahaProverbs 3:13-15
American Standard Version (ASV)
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, And the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the gaining of it is better than the gaining of silver, And the profit thereof than fine gold.
15 SHE is more precious than rubies: And none of the things thou canst desire are to be compared unto her.
is that christ mike?? hahahahaha
now we go the prov 8
Proverbs 8:11
Amplified Bible (AMP)
11For skillful and godly Wisdom is better than rubies or pearls, and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
now you see the same statement in chapter 3??
now we go to the verse 22
Proverbs 8:22-30
Amplified Bible (AMP)
22The Lord formed and brought me [Wisdom] forth at the beginning of His way, before His acts of old.
Footnotes:
Wisdom here present and involved at creation as an attribute of God.
now you see mike, this wisdom is not referring to christ. BUT TO THE CHARACTERISTIC OF GOD!
now let us see your col 1:15
read me a translation that says first creation in col 1:15. I DONT NEED YOUR WORDS MIKE! GIVE ME A TRANSLATION THAT THE MEANING OF COL 1:15 IS CHRIST WAS CREATED BY GOD!now the meaning of firstborn of all creation is HE RULES OVER EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MADE! IT TALKS ABOUT SUPREMACY OF CHRIST!
Colossians 1:15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.Colossians 1:15
New Living Translation (NLT)
Christ Is Supreme
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is SUPREME OVER ALL CREATION,that's the meaning of col 1:15
same with rev 3:14!Revelation 3:14
New Century Version (NCV)
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea:
“The Amen,[a] the faithful and true witness, THE RULER OF ALL GOD HAS MADE, says this:
you are giving again wrong meaning mike. WE DONT NEED YOUR OWN WORDS! JUST READ IN THE BIBLE! PRAISE GOD!
Hi Jammin.I am sorry to say that the bible you have,has been doctored.
May I suggest you invest on the oldest translation(kjv)
For your own sake. BTW. you are right re, wisdom: is wisdom:
It is not speaking about Christ,but wisdom; always has been with God.Jesus is the first resurected from the dead: made spirit.
He is the first, and his brothers will follow.(the saints)
Jesus was born out of a woman,he also was feeding on his mothers breast,and the rest of it; therefore he was a
creature; He humbled him self,in becoming like us, his brethren.I know it is hard to swollow,same with me in the beginning, before I had not much knowledge; and also because of what we have been taught.In rev.ch22:16.He said ''I am of the root of David.
God can transform his word into anything he likes.
Gods word was also transformed into the TREE OF LIFE,in the mids of the Garden.And God also transformed his word into the water giving rock,in the days of Moses.Whatever God has transformed his word into; it is still his word. He also transformed(translate) his word into Melchisedek,a man; But it is still his word.
You will see,if you keep on seeking; Just you and the bible,and the holy spirit will open our understanding.
God bless.
wakeup.
Wake upSo you do not think that Prov 8:22-30 refers to Christ ??
May be you can then explain what it all mean ,what it says that is
So I would like to know ,so instruct me ,
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,11:15) Mike,
Translate Jehovah, now translate Joshua.Jehovah = I WILL BE (or, according to you, “I AM”)
Joshua = I WILL BE IS SALVATION (if I remember right)
Your point?
Kathi, if there is never a time where Jesus says the words “I am I AM”, then there is never a time where Jesus claimed to be Jehovah. It's really as simple as that.
Let it go.Mike,
I will gladly let it go since your argument proves nothing. That Jehovah in the OT is sometimes the Son, sometimes the Father and at other times the unity of both. So, I will go study more about where Jehovah is the Son in the OT. I think that I made a thread for that but it is a database and not for discussion.Kathi
Okay Kathi.
If you ever find a scripture that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is the “Jehovah” mentioned, let me know.
In the mean time, I won't expect you to be making any claims about John 8:58, because Jesus definitely does NOT say “I am I AM”.
wakeup you said christ is a creature. the translation i posted here has not been doctored. THAT IS THE TRUE MEANING OF THE VERSE. YOU CANT READ CHRIST WAS CREATED. IT'S YOUR OWN OPINION. HAHAHA READ A VERSE! we need verse and not conclusion.
ed j the wisdom in prov is not the holy spirit. it is only your conclusion.you cant read in prov that it is the holy spirit. hehehe
ed j the wisdom in prov is not the holy spirit. it is only your conclusion.you cant read in prov that it is the holy spirit. hehehe
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2012,13:12) Okay Kathi. If you ever find a scripture that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is the “Jehovah” mentioned, let me know.
In the mean time, I won't expect you to be making any claims about John 8:58, because Jesus definitely does NOT say “I am I AM”.
who is to come mike??? who is coming??? the father or son?Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:02) read a verse that the father will be coming soon
Isaiah 40:10
See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.You know that Jesus is the “arm” OF Jehovah, right? (John 12:38) In the above verse, you can see that both Jehovah AND His arm come.
Rev 21
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
Rev 22
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.In 21:3, you'll notice that God Himself will dwell with His people. In 21:22, you'll notice that God and His Lamb are two different beings. And 22:3 repeats the fact that BOTH God AND His Lamb will dwell among men.
jammin, remember that in Revelation, there is One who sits on the throne. That One is called “the Lord God”. And then there is the Lamb who takes the scroll from the hand of Him who sits on the throne. God and His Lamb are two different beings, and they are BOTH coming soon.
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:02) i think mike you are a JW. your doctrine is similar to them, and you always use NWT hehehehe
Yes,My doctrine is very similar to the JW's doctrine. I don't agree with all of their scriptural interpretations, but most of them.
wahahahaha
mike is twisting again the word of GOD! is 40 speak about christ and not the father! hahahahahah. maybe for you the SON is also the FATHER! wahahahahaha
let me post the verse.New International Version (NIV)
Isaiah 40
Comfort for God’s People
1 Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the LORD’s hand
double for all her sins.3 A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the LORD;
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed,
and all people will see it together.
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”6 A voice says, “Cry out.”
And I said, “What shall I cry?”“All people are like grass,
and all their faithfulness is like the flowers of the field.
7 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
because the breath of the LORD blows on them.
Surely the people are grass.
8 The grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of our God endures forever.”9 You who bring good news to Zion,
go up on a high mountain.
You who bring good news to Jerusalem,
lift up your voice with a shout,
lift it up, do not be afraid;
say to the towns of Judah,
“Here is your God!”
10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and he rules with a mighty arm.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.
11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.see mike the context? hahahaha that is christ! not the father!
now we go to rev 21
in rev 21 we are talking about the new heaven and new earth! hahahahahah
the first heaven and first earth had passed away!verse 1
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.verse 21 and 22 did not say about that the father is coming. hahahahah. read it well mike. i cant read here about the coming of the father mike hahahahahahahahaha.
read well mike
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,09:48) is 40 speak about christ and not the father! jammin,
WHO is the LORD mentioned in Is 40:10? And WHO is His right arm? (John 12:38) Is 40 speaks of BOTH Jesus AND his own God coming.
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,09:48) verse 21 and 22 did not say about that the father is coming. hahahahah. read it well mike. i cant read here about the coming of the father mike
Does New Jerusalem come down from heaven to earth? Will God Himself be dwelling among men? Will God AND His Lamb be dwelling in New Jerusalem? Like I said, they are BOTH coming.Let scripture, not the lies men have told you, be your guide, jammin.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,03:23) Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,09:48) is 40 speak about christ and not the father! jammin,
WHO is the LORD mentioned in Is 40:10? And WHO is His right arm? (John 12:38) Is 40 speaks of BOTH Jesus AND his own God coming.
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,09:48) verse 21 and 22 did not say about that the father is coming. hahahahah. read it well mike. i cant read here about the coming of the father mike
Does New Jerusalem come down from heaven to earth? Will God Himself be dwelling among men? Will God AND His Lamb be dwelling in New Jerusalem? Like I said, they are BOTH coming.Let scripture, not the lies men have told you, be your guide, jammin.
THE LORD in isaiah is christ. read verse 3 and so on.
the meaning of his arm rules for him is THEY SAW THE LORD'S POWER AND THAT IS CHRIST'S POWER!
THEY HAD SEEN JESUS DOING MANY BIG WORKS! THAT'S THE MEANING OF IT!JOHN 12: 37 Jesus had done many powerful works in front of them, but they did not put their trust in Him. 38 This happened as the words of the early preacher Isaiah said it would happen. He had said, “Lord, has anyone believed our preaching? Has the Lord shown His power to anyone?”
do not make conclusions mike. read well the bible.
rev 21-22 is not saying about the coming of the father. the SON is coming and not the father!
read well my friendQuote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:29) THE LORD in isaiah is christ.
You are mistaken.Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:29) THEY SAW THE LORD'S POWER AND THAT IS CHRIST'S POWER!
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.Who performed the miracles? Through whom were those miracles performed?
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:29) Has the Lord shown His power to anyone?” do not make conclusions mike.
John 12:41
Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.Jesus was as the right arm of Jehovah. Just as Cyrus was also called the right arm of Jehovah. It refers in these cases to the persons through whom Jehovah would perform powerful wonders.
Read well the Bible, jammin.
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:31) rev 21-22 is not saying about the coming of the father
Will the Lord God AND the Lamb BOTH be in New Jerusalem?read in is 40 that it is the father! read mike! it talks about the first coming of christ! christ became flesh and not the father! do not use isaiah just to prove that the father is coming! it talks about the FIRST COMING! AND THAT WAS CHRIST! THE SON OF GOD!
the LORD is christ 1cor 8:6!
rev 21:21 read that the father is coming. i dont need your own words. read it from the bible.john 12:38 talks about the LORD's power. and that is christ. christ is the LORD! it's just your conclusion that christ is the right arm of the FATHER. but in the verse, it does not say GOD THE FATHER but LORD!
John 12:38-40
Amplified Bible (AMP)
38So that what Isaiah the prophet said was fulfilled: Lord, who has believed our report and our message? And to whom has the arm (the power) of the Lord been shown (unveiled and revealed)?
John 12:38-40
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
38This happened so that what the prophet Isaiah had said would come true, “Lord, who has believed
our message?
And who has seen
your mighty strength?”
the GREEK word is kurios. JESUS performed the miracles according to verse 37 of john.
truly that GOD did this but THROUGH JESUS! it's not the father himself who did this! it was thru JESUS! jesus is not the father!
can you read in acts 2:22 that jesus was called the arm of THE LORD? it's just your conclusion mike. THE MEANING OF ARM OF THE LORD IS HIS MIGHTY STRENGTH! IT IS THE CHARACTERISTIC OF THE LORD! THAT HE HAS POWER!in john 21:38, it talks about LORD's strength. that is JESUS (verse 37)
jesus is not the father! christ performed the miracles! christ is the son of GOD! not the father!example mike, i am sending my message to the people thru you. does it mean i am you??? wahahahahahahahah
who give the message to the people? me or you? although the message came to me, but it was you who delivered the message! and i am not you!
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