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mike said:All things were created THROUGH him and for him. Never “by” him.
did you attend gradeschool mike??? BY is a synonym of THROUGH!
THROUGH IS A PREPOSITION MIKE. do you know that?
go back to school mike, study hard hahahahahah
mike: You won't find a verse that says “Jesus created”. Instead, all verses mentioning Jesus in the act of creation place him as the object, ie: “All things were created through Jesus”, instead of “Jesus created all things.”
HEB 1:10
NLT10 He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands.that's what the bible says mike. hahahahahaha
believe it or not!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,05:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,20:48) You ask me to show you where Jesus said “I am I AM” in the NT…where does the Father say this in the NT?
No, I ask you to show ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE that Jesus utters the phrase, “I am I AM”.I can show you MANY times in scripture where Jehovah uttered that very phrase. Show me ONE where Jesus uttered it. If you are unable, then simply don't ever try to claim that Jesus claimed to be “I AM” ever again, okay? You KNOW the truth of the matter now, so please don't speak OUTSIDE OF the truth we know.
As for all of you “Jehovah the Son” proofs, not one of them speaks of Jesus being Jehovah, so once again, you're speaking OUTSIDE OF the truth we know.
Kathi, the Father's name is “Jehovah”. The Son's name is “Joshua”.
Let the scriptures teach you, Kathi.
have you finished your assingments mike??? hahahhahaha.Quote (jammin @ Dec. 30 2011,20:28) 10 He also says to the Son, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands.
Hebrews 1:10 does not begin with the words “He also says to the Son”. This phrase is added in many Trinitarian versions to divert people from the fact that 1:10 is said about God, not Jesus.But here's one of the verses I was telling Wakeup about:
Isaiah 42
5 This is what God the LORD says—
he who created the heavens and stretched them out,
who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it,
who gives breath to its people,
and life to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,If you read verses 1 through 9, you'll see that God is speaking about and to His servant, Jesus. But you'll notice from verse 5 that it was the God doing the speaking who created all things – not the servant to whom he was speaking.
If Jesus is not the God who was doing the speaking, then he is not the one who created all things. Therefore, he would have no choice but to be one of those things created BY the God who was doing the speaking.
That's just one of the many scriptures that identify Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the One who created all things.
that's your own opinion mike. give me a translation that says ” HE SAYS TO THE FATHER” in heb 1:10
ill wait mike. hahahaha
i dont need YOUR OWN OPINION!there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through and by Whom are all things and through and by Whom we [ourselves exist]. 1 COR 8:6
PRAISE GOD!
if you read heb 1:8-10 , the father is telling these words to his SON!
let me post from verse 8-10
Hebrews 1:8-10
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
8 But this is what he said about his Son:
“God, your kingdom will last forever and ever.
You use your authority for justice.
9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong.
So God, your God, has chosen you,
giving you more honor and joy than anyone like you.”10 God also said,
“O Lord, in the beginning you made the earth,
and your hands made the sky.see mike, that's very clear. crystal clear mike! praise GOD!
believe it or not mike…i know it's hard for you to understand this bec for you christ is not creator but created. no verse in the bible that christ was created.
listen to the song
open the eyes of my heart LORD.it's a nice song
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 31 2011,02:32) that's your own opinion mike. give me a translation that says ” HE SAYS TO THE FATHER” in heb 1:10
That's my point, jammin. There is no time that Paul says “HE SAYS TO THE FATHER”, because that would make the SUBJECT of the passage someone OTHER THAN the Father.Instead, the subject is ALWAYS the Father in the whole passage. THE FATHER SAYS about the angels…………… THE FATHER SAYS about the Son……………. THE FATHER this and THE FATHER that, etc.
And verse 10, like all the others, has THE FATHER as the subject. And it is the subject of the sentence that laid the foundations of the earth.
No comment about the Isaiah passage?
it's clear mike that heb 1:10 is talking about the SON who made the heavens etc.
isaiah speaks GOD created heavens. just like in hebrews.
and that is christ.Quote (jammin @ Jan. 01 2012,18:12) isaiah speaks GOD created heavens. just like in hebrews.
and that is christ.
And who was God speaking to and about in Isaiah 42, if the God doing the speaking and creating WAS Christ?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,14:13) bump
HI MIKEB.You have done well explaining that Jesus is not the father, but the son of the father.And now you need to explain to them who Jesus realy is.
And I leave that to you.
peace bro,
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 05 2012,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 03 2011,14:13) bump
HI MIKEB.You have done well explaining that Jesus is not the father, but the son of the father.And now you need to explain to them who Jesus realy is.
And I leave that to you.
peace bro,
wakeup.
Wake upCHRIST is the son of God,the first of creation,second to God his father,
The only true begotten son of God,Pierre
terrarica
christ is not first creation. you cant read that. it's your own word. that's not in the bible/
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 04 2012,19:01) terrarica christ is not first creation. you cant read that. it's your own word. that's not in the bible/
It is in the Bible THREE different times.Proverbs 8:22 NRSV ©
The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago.Col 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Revelation 3:14
To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.hahahaha. christ is not the wisdom in prov 8:22
not all wisdom referred to christ. there are a lot of verses that says wisdom. but not all referred to christ.
in prov 8:22 it talks about to the attribute of GOD!
let me share the context with you mike hahahahaProverbs 3:13-15
American Standard Version (ASV)
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, And the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the gaining of it is better than the gaining of silver, And the profit thereof than fine gold.
15 SHE is more precious than rubies: And none of the things thou canst desire are to be compared unto her.
is that christ mike?? hahahahaha
now we go the prov 8
Proverbs 8:11
Amplified Bible (AMP)
11For skillful and godly Wisdom is better than rubies or pearls, and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
now you see the same statement in chapter 3??
now we go to the verse 22
Proverbs 8:22-30
Amplified Bible (AMP)
22The Lord formed and brought me [Wisdom] forth at the beginning of His way, before His acts of old.
Footnotes:
Wisdom here present and involved at creation as an attribute of God.
now you see mike, this wisdom is not referring to christ. BUT TO THE CHARACTERISTIC OF GOD!
now let us see your col 1:15
read me a translation that says first creation in col 1:15. I DONT NEED YOUR WORDS MIKE! GIVE ME A TRANSLATION THAT THE MEANING OF COL 1:15 IS CHRIST WAS CREATED BY GOD!now the meaning of firstborn of all creation is HE RULES OVER EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MADE! IT TALKS ABOUT SUPREMACY OF CHRIST!
Colossians 1:15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.Colossians 1:15
New Living Translation (NLT)
Christ Is Supreme
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is SUPREME OVER ALL CREATION,that's the meaning of col 1:15
same with rev 3:14!Revelation 3:14
New Century Version (NCV)
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea:
“The Amen,[a] the faithful and true witness, THE RULER OF ALL GOD HAS MADE, says this:
you are giving again wrong meaning mike. WE DONT NEED YOUR OWN WORDS! JUST READ IN THE BIBLE! PRAISE GOD!
Hi Jammin,
HA ha ha he he he.
Wisdom, in Prob.8:22, refers to
the HolySpirit, which is an attribute of YHVH.
Ha ha ha he he he he. God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (jammin @ Jan. 05 2012,14:09) hahahaha. christ is not the wisdom in prov 8:22
not all wisdom referred to christ. there are a lot of verses that says wisdom. but not all referred to christ.
in prov 8:22 it talks about to the attribute of GOD!
let me share the context with you mike hahahahaProverbs 3:13-15
American Standard Version (ASV)
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, And the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the gaining of it is better than the gaining of silver, And the profit thereof than fine gold.
15 SHE is more precious than rubies: And none of the things thou canst desire are to be compared unto her.
is that christ mike?? hahahahaha
now we go the prov 8
Proverbs 8:11
Amplified Bible (AMP)
11For skillful and godly Wisdom is better than rubies or pearls, and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
now you see the same statement in chapter 3??
now we go to the verse 22
Proverbs 8:22-30
Amplified Bible (AMP)
22The Lord formed and brought me [Wisdom] forth at the beginning of His way, before His acts of old.
Footnotes:
Wisdom here present and involved at creation as an attribute of God.
now you see mike, this wisdom is not referring to christ. BUT TO THE CHARACTERISTIC OF GOD!
now let us see your col 1:15
read me a translation that says first creation in col 1:15. I DONT NEED YOUR WORDS MIKE! GIVE ME A TRANSLATION THAT THE MEANING OF COL 1:15 IS CHRIST WAS CREATED BY GOD!now the meaning of firstborn of all creation is HE RULES OVER EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MADE! IT TALKS ABOUT SUPREMACY OF CHRIST!
Colossians 1:15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.Colossians 1:15
New Living Translation (NLT)
Christ Is Supreme
15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.
He existed before anything was created and is SUPREME OVER ALL CREATION,that's the meaning of col 1:15
same with rev 3:14!Revelation 3:14
New Century Version (NCV)
14 “Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea:
“The Amen,[a] the faithful and true witness, THE RULER OF ALL GOD HAS MADE, says this:
you are giving again wrong meaning mike. WE DONT NEED YOUR OWN WORDS! JUST READ IN THE BIBLE! PRAISE GOD!
Hi Jammin.I am sorry to say that the bible you have,has been doctored.
May I suggest you invest on the oldest translation(kjv)
For your own sake. BTW. you are right re, wisdom: is wisdom:
It is not speaking about Christ,but wisdom; always has been with God.Jesus is the first resurected from the dead: made spirit.
He is the first, and his brothers will follow.(the saints)
Jesus was born out of a woman,he also was feeding on his mothers breast,and the rest of it; therefore he was a
creature; He humbled him self,in becoming like us, his brethren.I know it is hard to swollow,same with me in the beginning, before I had not much knowledge; and also because of what we have been taught.In rev.ch22:16.He said ''I am of the root of David.
God can transform his word into anything he likes.
Gods word was also transformed into the TREE OF LIFE,in the mids of the Garden.And God also transformed his word into the water giving rock,in the days of Moses.Whatever God has transformed his word into; it is still his word. He also transformed(translate) his word into Melchisedek,a man; But it is still his word.
You will see,if you keep on seeking; Just you and the bible,and the holy spirit will open our understanding.
God bless.
wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 23 2011,06:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2011,20:48) Mike,
I have shown you several times where scripture refers to the Son as Jehovah…the Son is the husband of Zion who is Jehovah. Jacob wrestles with Jehovah face to face. Abraham talks face to face with Jehovah who will judge the whole earth, Jehovah sent fire and brimstone from the Jehovah in heaven, Jesus is called ''Jehovah our righteousness,” John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way of Jehovah, God calls Him Jehovah who laid the foundation of the earth, etc. There, not to mention the I AM's.You ask me to show you where Jesus said “I am I AM” in the NT…where does the Father say this in the NT? Where does the Son say that about the Father in the NT? You see, just because it is not worded according to your 'letter' that doesn't mean it is not so.
The I AM is not just a pronoun/verb commonly used, it can be commonly used but show me where it is not used as an answer or without a direct object when applied truthfully to anyone else. Can you do that? If you can't then that proves that the I AM that Jesus used which doesn't have a direct object after it, is unique and not just an ordinary pronoun/verb.
Kathi
kathiso according to you Jehovah God is a man ??
Pierre
Pierre,
Jehovah the SON BECAME a man…He wasn't always a man. Jehovah the Father never became a man.Kathi
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2011,13:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,20:48) You ask me to show you where Jesus said “I am I AM” in the NT…where does the Father say this in the NT?
No, I ask you to show ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE that Jesus utters the phrase, “I am I AM”.I can show you MANY times in scripture where Jehovah uttered that very phrase. Show me ONE where Jesus uttered it. If you are unable, then simply don't ever try to claim that Jesus claimed to be “I AM” ever again, okay? You KNOW the truth of the matter now, so please don't speak OUTSIDE OF the truth we know.
As for all of you “Jehovah the Son” proofs, not one of them speaks of Jesus being Jehovah, so once again, you're speaking OUTSIDE OF the truth we know.
Kathi, the Father's name is “Jehovah”. The Son's name is “Joshua”.
Let the scriptures teach you, Kathi.
Mike,
Translate Jehovah, now translate Joshua.Kathi
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