Is baptism needed for salvation?

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,08:36)

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,04:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,02:00) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 27 2008,01:38) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,01:22) We can only be born once, as Nico pointed out and Jesus agreed (flesh gives birth to flesh). In my opinion, being “born of the Spirit” has nothing to do with water baptism at all. Ephesians 1:13, 14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard he word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, which is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance…. All Nico had to do was believe the word of truth Jesus was telling him…..  He didn't need to be water baptized to be born again into the family of God and receive his promised inheritance. Agreed…but do forget the disciples of John rebaptism in Acts… Can you elaborate on this, DK? Thanks, Mandy Acts 19:1-6…. 1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”      They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”      “John's baptism,” they replied. 4Paul said, “John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[c] and prophesied. Some say that before Paul laid hands on them they were baptized by water…I tend to think they were also.. Oh, yes, I had forgotten about this passage.  Thanks, DK. This begs the question did Paul think water baptism was not enough?  Some believe it is.  I don't, but some do.

I personally think the scriptures show that both is necessary..if at all possible

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2008,07:06)

Quote (gollamudi @ June 26 2008,22:24) Hi Nick, So many quotes at a time. Yes unless a soul takes birth as flesh there is no question of all these arguements here. yes I am born of Spirit of God internally but I have not yet left my flesh body (natural body) and taken the spiritual, then only it is called as born of spirit literally. How can you ignore such facts it happens only when I am resurrected to enter literally into God's kingdom. Do you believe God's kingdom has come literally now on the earth. If so why you are praying for that to happen on earth as it is in heaven. Is Jesus sitting on the throne of David in God's kingdom now on earth? Why are you so much ignorant of these simple truths. You want to question people with your preconceived assumptions. No.. No.. that is wrong my friend. Please take care Adam Hi GM, So a souls needs to take birth? Do souls preexist bodies?? Sounds gnostic to me.   Are you not yet begotten of God? 1Peter 1 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, … 22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.' 4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Hi Nick,
There is no gnosticism here, I was only meant a soul means a person he has to be born of flesh first and then he has to be born of spirit. If you twist every thing and go for endless discussion on this mere water baptism which is not mandatory for saving of souls it is only a outward ritual of what has already taken place inside a person by the work of Spirit of God. You are wasting precious time of many.
Please take care
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
Everyone must be born of flesh.
Yes we all tick that box.
Why does it say this??

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
What is born of flesh is flesh. True.

But we must be born of water and the Spirit.

[Not3in1]

Hi Nick,

Quote

Where did Nicodemus mention water?

It is in keeping with the context of the conversation they are having.  

Nico is talking about physical birth (entering the womb for the second time).  Jesus acknowledges his idea and says, flesh gives birth to flesh.  He elaborates and goes on to say in so many words, “Nico, you must be born of water (flesh – because that is what they were just talking about) but also the Spirit!

There is no talk of baptisms.

Besides Nick, water baptism does not stand for LIFE and being REBORN at all, it is symbolic of the opposite….death.

Col. 2:12

…having been buried with him in baptism….

[gollamudi]

Nice post Mandy, I agree with you.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 27 2008,16:48)

Hi Nick, Quote Where did Nicodemus mention water? It is in keeping with the context of the conversation they are having.   Nico is talking about physical birth (entering the womb for the second time).  Jesus acknowledges his idea and says, flesh gives birth to flesh.  He elaborates and goes on to say in so many words, “Nico, you must be born of water (flesh – because that is what they were just talking about) but also the Spirit! There is no talk of baptisms. Besides Nick, water baptism does not stand for LIFE and being REBORN at all, it is symbolic of the opposite….death. Col. 2:12 …having been buried with him in baptism….

Hi Not3,

water=flesh??

It is not scriptural.

[Not3in1]

In this exchange between Nico and Jesus, it is used as an example. Indeed, it is!

Water has been linked to birth from the beginning, Nick. What carries/cushions the child in the womb? What needs to “break” before the child can enter the world and be born?

Water

[gollamudi]

Hi Mandy,
You are right, Water is the ultimate source from which this creation came into existence when the Spirit of the Lord(Yahwe) moved(brooded) over the surface of the waters. 70% of this creation is of water, even human body consists of nearly 70% of water content. 1 Jn 5:7 talks about Jesus' human birth again water is one of the three which are in agreement for his human birth. I hope this will clear the dilemma of born of water.
Love to you
Adam

[Not3in1]

Adam, very good points thank you!

There were some who believed that Jesus wasn't even human, and so I also believe that the conversation between Nico and Jesus was to emphasize the need that we be born TWICE, not just once: through water (our physical birth) but also through the Spirit.

[gollamudi]

Amen Mandy, we will be born again of the Spirit of God without spot and wrinkle at our resurrection with glorious bodies like Jesus. What a glorious hope it is.
Thanks
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
You should be now.
1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

[gollamudi]

Hi Nick,
Yes I know as a beginning process or glimpses of what is going to happen in future at our resurrection. you always confuse with our coversion process through the Spirit of God with born again of Spirit. You have not yet born again literally my friend. How long you will argue with me on that. I understood what I share through the Holy Spirit. Once upon a time I was also thinking like you because I was also told in that way that we are already born again. I don't agree with this type of born again which happened only in our hearts and mind. But still we are in our flesh that is of sinful nature. You have to see many things are in resemblence with the permanet things which are going to take place in future. That's why Paul says in Romans 8 the creation is graoning with birth pangs for the redemption of God's children, which will happen in future my friend.
Thanks
Adam

[supergeek14]

This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad.

I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol?

I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.

(I use ASV in case you want to know what translation)

From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism.

What do you think?

[supergeek14]

This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad.

I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol?

I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.

(I use ASV in case you want to know what translation)

From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism.

What do you think?

[Irene]

Quote (supergeek14 @ June 28 2008,07:18)

This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad. I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol? I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses: Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism)  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (I use ASV in case you want to know what translation) From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism. What do you think?

Welcome to this Website.            
Fist I would like to say, it would be much nicer if you would use black ink. The green or any other color except black is very hard to read. So would you be so kind and change that.
Then we already have a Tread that is all about Baptism. You will find your answer there.
In Christian Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (supergeek14 @ June 28 2008,07:18)

This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad. I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol? I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses: Mark 16:16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism)  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (I use ASV in case you want to know what translation) From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism. What do you think?

Welcome to this Website.            
Fist I would like to say, it would be much nicer if you would use black ink. The green or any other color except black is very hard to read. So would you be so kind and change that.
Then we already have a Tread that is all about Baptism. You will find your answer there.
In Christian Love Irene

[supergeek14]

Quote (Irene @ June 28 2008,07:28)

Quote (supergeek14 @ June 28 2008,07:18) This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad. I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol? I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (I use ASV in case you want to know what translation) From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism. What do you think? Welcome to this Website. Fist I would like to say, it would be much nicer if you would use black ink. The green or any other color except black is very hard to read. So would you be so kind and change that. Then we already have a Tread that is all about Baptism. You will find your answer there. In Christian Love Irene

My bad sorry.

[supergeek14]

Quote (Irene @ June 28 2008,07:28)

Quote (supergeek14 @ June 28 2008,07:18) This is my first post on here so if it is a little rough don't get mad. I was wondering what you all thought about this subject? Do we need to be baptized or is it just a symbol? I myself believe we are not saved without being baptized because of the following verses: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. II Tim 2:10 (in which we are told we are saved in Christ) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Romans 6:3 (where we are told we are put in Christ by baptism) Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Gal. 3:27 (where we are again told we are put in Christ be baptism) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (I use ASV in case you want to know what translation) From those verses we can gather that we are saved by baptism. What do you think? Welcome to this Website. Fist I would like to say, it would be much nicer if you would use black ink. The green or any other color except black is very hard to read. So would you be so kind and change that. Then we already have a Tread that is all about Baptism. You will find your answer there. In Christian Love Irene

My bad sorry.

[Not3in1]

Hi Supergeek (funny name – it reminded me of the 70's song, “Super Freak”)  

Anyway, I kinda liked the green!     But I understand it might be hard for Irene to read.

Um, about having to be baptized to be saved, ya I have a problem with that.  Only because there are scads of verses that mention salvation being had by those who were not commanded to be baptized.  I could list some favorites for you but it will have to be later tonight.  Mostly the combination that I see for salvation is believed and be saved.

Glad you're here!
Mandy

[Author]

Posts