Is baptism needed for salvation?

[Proclaimer]

Yes John's baptism was a baptism of repentance and repentance was essential in accepting God's messiah. I guess that there would have been people that didn't have the baptism of John as they may have had faith after John died or were not in the area or whatever. But Christ still accepted those people as he was willing to accept all if they would repent.

Those who resisted being baptized by John showed that they didn't accept John as a prophet or man of God. If they didn't accept him, then they certainly were not going to accept Jesus. I guess that they just didn't want to repent which is essential. Also some like the Pharisees were probably not able to accept that God would do such great works outside of their institution. Sounds like some denominations today. They cannot accept anything outside THEIR church or pastor covering.

Of course God simply bypasses the proud and gives his grace to the humble. There will always be those whom God can work through, so being proud about one's spirituality is a rediculous concept.

[k4c]

The Spirit of God can come into a repented person many different ways. Even though the Spirit can come into a person many different ways, God has given us an understanding of His works of salvation through all the examples and cerimonies throughout the Scriptures. These outward works have their place in spiritual growth but they are pictures of deeper truths in the same way parables taught a spiritual principle through a story that might not have been real.

To baptize means to wash. When we are washed spiritually our minds get cleaned, in other words, corrected.

A person's name is a picture of his character.

We are to be washed in the character of Jesus.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Sin goes into remission, in other words, it stops when we have the character of Jesus living in us through having a holy spirit.

Holy means set apart. We have a spirit, it's our minds having to do with our thoughts.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

When we get washed in the character of Jesus, in other words, we are taught to be like Him, our spirit becomes holy as He is holy.

1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.''

We can have a holy spirit when we obey the teachings of God.

Acts 5:32 “And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.''

Our minds can be holy as He is holy. This holiness of mind needs to be worked on daily.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

The inward mand is the spirit of man.

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism signifies this not in the washing away of dirt but of a clean conscience. The conscience is an inward thing.

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Back then they didn't have the NT to wash them as we have so they were given the literal water to wash as a stepping stone for us. In the same way the people of the OT didn't the true lamb but they had a lamb.

When we as NT believers get washed it's our minds/spirit that is the focus.

The word (spirit) carries many different meanings. The word (spirit) can identify the mind or the disposition of the mind such as being holy. It can identify the living life of the person. It can identify the power of God and even God Himself. Context is very important.

Water baptism is an outward understanding given to us through them of an inward work, it's like a parable. The dunking itself is not the focus but rather what it teaches.

John was the forerunner for Jesus. John was not the light, he only bore witness to the true light.

Before the coming of the Spirit of Christ the water baptism was the light they had and it did its job. In the same way the sacrificed lamb was the light in the OT and was given before Jesus the true Lamb but it did its job for its time and place in God's overall plan.

We live and are judged according to the light we have as we see throughout Scripture and history.

So it seems to me that the baptism or washing is to be understood as teaching, in other words, washing with words. And these words that wash us are found in understanding the character and nature of Jesus. This is how we are conformed to the image of Jesus.

[k4c]

Can I teach a person the meaning of water baptism through the Scriptures without literally water baptizing the person I'm teaching?

Would they get the same effect of the literal water baptism through my teaching them the meaning of it through the Scriptures?

Can someone receive the Spirit of God through the washing of the word of God?

What are your thoughts?

[NickHassan]

Hi k4c,
Acts is our guide.
No.
All were baptised in water in the name of Jesus Christ immediately they had turned back to God and were apparently repentant. If God through Jesus, declared to his disciples that they were clean already then that is His perogative. In giving the Spirit to Cornelius and his friends before they had been baptised in water again is the perogative of God. But Peter did not assume that God did not require they be baptised in water but commanded that they immediately be baptised in water.

Nothing has changed since then.

[NickHassan]

Hi k4c,
You are teaching beyond scriptural revelation here in my opinion.

How did Jesus reveal the power and nature of the Father to the world? Did he always do this from birth? No. He was baptised in water and the Spirit of God. The fullness of deity dwelled in him as that Spirit.[Coll 2.9]

Acts 10.38
“you know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him”
Gal 3.27
“For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ”
Coll 2.12
“;having been buried with him in baptism….”

Man is not holy. Man cannot make himself holy. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. Holiness is only of God and the Holy One, His Son. Our vessel is made clean in repentance and water baptism and then we can have the Holy Spirit of God poured into us to lead and guide and empower us.

“whoever wants to save his own life will lose it”

[k4c]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2005,13:24)

Hi k4c, You are teaching beyond scriptural revelation here in my opinion. How did Jesus reveal the power and nature of the Father to the world? Did he always do this from birth? No. He was baptised in water and the Spirit of God. The fullness of deity dwelled in him as that Spirit.[Coll 2.9] Acts 10.38 “you know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him” Gal 3.27 “For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ” Coll 2.12 “;having been buried with him in baptism….” Man is not holy. Man cannot make himself holy. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. Holiness is only of God and the Holy One, His Son. Our vessel is made clean in repentance and water baptism and then we can have the Holy Spirit of God poured into us to lead and guide and empower us. “whoever wants to save his own life will lose it”

I'm not teaching beyond Scriptual revelation.

The Bible is very clear when it says there have been many times when the Spirit of God came into people without water baptism.

John the Baptist for one was born with the Spirit.

Jesus breathed on people and they received the Spirit.

Prople laid hands on people and they received the Spirit.

We find in the water baptism the teaching of how the Spirit washes us when we repent and turn to God.

As the Son bares His Father's name we bare the Son's name. This has to do with the character of the person, in other words, His image.

[NickHassan]

Hi k4c,
Are you saying that reading the bible is the way of salvation, that it causes us to become clean and to be born again? That is a new gospel.

[k4c]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2005,21:21)

Hi k4c, Are you saying that reading the bible is the way of salvation, that it causes us to become clean and to be born again? That is a new gospel.

The Scriptures testify of Jesus so that we can come to Him.

John 5:39-40 “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

The Scriptures make us wise unto salvation because they teach the way of salvation through Christ.

2 Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NickHassan]

Absolutely,
The scripture predicted and revealed the salvation that was given through Christ. We can learn about it and believe it and assume we have received it but that is not wise. We need to go through the gate.
Acts 16 30f.
” Sirs , what must I do to be saved?'
They said
'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household'
And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptised, he and all his household”
So baptism was essential and immediately, so though on first reading you might think only belief was required.
What was Philip discussing with the Eunuch for the Eunuch to say
” Look!. Water!. What prevents me from being baptised?”.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
kenrch says Catholics have been baptised and so he can fellowship with them.

But are they?
Ask any Catholic and he will say yes and show you his baptismal certificate. he will tell you his parents “got him baptised ” a few weeks after he was born.

Is this baptism. Do you not have to repent and believe first?

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2006,04:40)

Hi, kenrch says Catholics have been baptised and so he can fellowship with them. But are they? Ask any Catholic and he will say yes and show you his baptismal certificate. he will tell you his parents “got him baptised ” a few weeks after he was born. Is this baptism. Do you not have to repent and believe first?

When did I say that? Funny I always thought you had to repent “then” be baptized. Please show me where I said that so I can correct YOU!

[NickHassan]

Hi kenrch,
Perhaps I misunderstood you. In another forum you said
“I would be more than happy to fellowship with trinitarians and accept them because they believe in Jesus and have been baptised…”

The origin of the trinity doctrine is catholicism.
They believe in Jesus
They say they have been baptised.

I am enlarging on their beliefs to stimulate discussion and not judging your words.

[david]

Catholics believe in Jesus and the Pharisees believed in God.

Yet, we remember Jesus words to them.

Somehow, I have difficulty seeing Peter and Paul fellowshiping with ones who resist what they believe and know to be true. If someone rejects God's word, and we fellowship with them and become their friends, how would God view that?

I was baptized a Catholic. I don't remember being asked whether I wanted to be. I don't even remember being baptized. Of course, when you're about 8 or 10, there is something called “confirmation,” which is supposed to be you confirming your baptism. But again, at that age, are you going to go against your parents, and the entire system that is over you? Highly doubtful.

david

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2006,06:16)

Hi kenrch, Perhaps I misunderstood you. In another forum you said “I would be more than happy to fellowship with trinitarians and accept them because they believe in Jesus and have been baptised…” The origin of the trinity doctrine is catholicism. They believe in Jesus They say they have been baptised. I am enlarging on their beliefs to stimulate discussion and not judging your words.

“I would be more than happy to fellowship with christians who are trinitarians and accept them because they believe in Jesus and have been baptized.” But they will not fellowship with me because according to all denominations (except the JWs) I'm not a chrisitian because I refuse to believe in the Trinity tradition. Their leaders are afraid that the truth might rub off on them. So am I to deny the TRUE WORD of God for the sake of fellowship with believers who are decieved? “Should I accept their lie? Not me, Not ever!”

The JWs won't fellowship with me because I accept chrisitians of all faith as long as they fellowship with Jesus. And unless I confess that the JWs are the one true church (Just as the Catholics do) then I'm doomed. And unless I confess that the JWs are the one true church (Just as the Catholics do) then I'm doomed.

Is the above statement where you get that I would fellowship with Catholic because they believe and are baptized?

You know I was going to chastise you but the Holy Spirit gave me this just for you :

Co 9:19 For though I was free from all men, I brought myself under bondage to all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, not being myself under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 to them that are without law, as without law, not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak: I am become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And I do all things for the gospel's sake, that I may be a joint partaker thereof.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they that run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? Even so run; that ye may attain.
Do you people think because you have ONE MORE piece of truth you should isolate yourselves. How are the “others” going to see “your ” light. Doesn't any of the Word come to mind. Jesus said not to hide your light. You say NO Denominations in this forum…How are they to see the TRUTH you have if you walk around with your “holy nose” in the air.

It is No wander the Lord said Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter into heaven. You who commit iniquity (breaking the LAW).
Lord didn't we have the truth of the Trinity. Yes but what did you do with it? You buried it!!!

Mat 25:24 And he also that had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou didst not sow, and gathering where thou didst not scatter;
Mat 25:25 and I was afraid, and went away and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, thou hast thine own.
Mat 25:26 But his lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I did not scatter;
Mat 25:27 thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back mine own with interest.
Mat 25:28 Take ye away therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him that hath the ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away.
No Nick this is not about talents.

All in His Love,

Kenrch

[NickHassan]

Hi kenrch,
Paul was a Pharisee and he had studied under Gamaliel. He had true and deep and sincere faith in God but he did not recognise the Son of God. Those who were not baptised by John did not have their eyes opened to the coming of Messiah.

As with the other Pharisees he saw anyone claiming to be the Son of God was claiming equality with God. He put his money where his mouth was and tried to have believers killed. Thus in his defence of what he knew to be true he considered death was the appropriate biblical response to what seemed to be idolatry and blasphemy.

He stumbled over the stumbling stone. After his salvation he never forgot where he had come from and he use that knowledge to try to draw those like himself to the new wine. He tried to help them see the new wine expanded and interpreted the old and you needed both to be a wise storekeeper.

As he showed in Romans and Galatians they had truth and needed to add to that truth to have the fulness of truth.
The modern situation is different.

The daughters of the whore and the whore herself are not based on truth. They have rejected biblical truth and been based on the sand of tradition and theology. Paul would have felt compassion for them but would have seen their churches as the idolatry of Athens-irrelevant to true faith.
“Come out of her my people..”

[kenrch]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2006,20:12)

Hi kenrch, Paul was a Pharisee and he had studied under Gamaliel. He had true and deep and sincere faith in God but he did not recognise the Son of God. Those who were not baptised by John did not have their eyes opened to the coming of Messiah. As with the other Pharisees he saw anyone claiming to be the Son of God was claiming equality with God. He put his money where his mouth was and tried to have believers killed. Thus in his defence of what he knew to be true he considered death was the appropriate biblical response to what seemed to be idolatry and blasphemy. He stumbled over the stumbling stone. After his salvation he never forgot where he had come from and he use that knowledge to try to draw those like himself to the new wine. He tried to help them see the new wine expanded and interpreted the old and you needed both to be a wise storekeeper. As he showed in Romans and Galatians they had truth and needed to add to that truth to have the fulness of truth. The modern situation is different. The daughters of the whore and the whore herself are not based on truth. They have rejected biblical truth and been based on the sand of tradition and theology. Paul would have felt compassion for them but would have seen their churches as the idolatry of Athens-irrelevant to true faith. “Come out of her my people..”

He Nicky,

I only know what the word says:

Co 9:19 For though I was free from all men, I brought myself under bondage to all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, not being myself under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 to them that are without law, as without law, not being without law to God, but under law to Christ, that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak: I am become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And I do all things for the gospel's sake, that I may be a joint partaker thereof.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they that run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? Even so run; that ye may attain

What Paul is saying in the Word of God is that he fellowshiped with Jews to win the Jews to Christ. You see he didn't hide his light. Paul was not effected by pagan beliefs and shared the gospel in order to win pagans to Christ.
Perhaps you are weak in faith and are scared of loosing your salvation. But not to worry Nicky the Protestants have the basics in order to be saved. so even if they convince you of their beliefs you will still enter the Kingdom (Mat. 5:19).

1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak: I am become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.

Today Paul would not hesitate to fellowship with Bapatist and the others in order to share his new truth to “call those out from the harlot” without compromising the truth he had.

1Co 9:21 to them that are without law, as without law, “Not being without law to God, but under law to Christ,” that I might gain them that are without law.

Have you ever worked the field Nicky? Face to face with believers of different opinion who know the word perhaps better than you; when you had to call on the Holly Spirit in order to “win” the disagreement. It's been my experence that is the way to plant seeds that “grow”. The Word cuts deep when it comes from the Spirit of God.

You are an intellect too smart for the Spirit too busy listening to your “own thoughts OF God” and “not From God”.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought.

Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.

The daughters of the whore and the whore herself are not based on truth. They have rejected biblical truth and been based on the sand of tradition and theology. Paul would have felt compassion for them but would have seen their churches as the idolatry of Athens-irrelevant to true faith.
“Come out of her my people..”

Are they not one sincere person in all of Protestantism. Are all devils. What denomination did you come from Nicky? Or did you just one day decided to pick up a bible “study” it learn all the definitions of different words and become a Christian. The person who baptised you did that person have the truth of the Trinity? From Protestant to Independent they came out and are of the whore herself. We all in one way or another came out from the whore. But we came out!
You don't seem to want to return the favor. Seems like David is having an effect on you after all the JWS are the only true church even if they too came from the Harlot.

IHL,

Kenrch

[kenrch]

Quote (david @ June 03 2006,06:27)

Catholics believe in Jesus and the Pharisees believed in God. Yet, we remember Jesus words to them. Somehow, I have difficulty seeing Peter and Paul fellowshiping with ones who resist what they believe and know to be true.  If someone rejects God's word, and we fellowship with them and become their friends, how would God view that?   I was baptized a Catholic.  I don't remember being asked whether I wanted to be.  I don't even remember being baptized.  Of course, when you're about 8 or 10, there is something called “confirmation,” which is supposed to be you confirming your baptism.  But again, at that age, are you going to go against your parents, and the entire system that is over you?  Highly doubtful. david

What if they were no Catholics to come from? The Catholics taught you (or your ancestors) that their is a God. You were called out from her to learn more truth. The Catholics came from the Jewish faith. The Jewish faith came from God. One way or another we came from the Catholics. Even if you were born into the baptist, the baptist one way or another came from the Catholic Church. God used the Catholic as He used the Baptist and then the Independent and even Charles Taz Russell one way or another came from the Catholic Church.
Some one enlightened you as to the lies Satan injected over the centuries. So the true church moved out of the apostate Catholic church to the Protestant then the Independent and now the NON Triniterians who are starting over equipped with what they learned from the previous Christian Religion the foundation of Christ.

So yes I'll be like Paul and fellowship with the people of “MY” previous church in order to bring some to a greater light.

[Woutlaw]

But not to worry Nicky the Protestants have the basics in order to be saved. so even if they convince you of their beliefs you will still enter the Kingdom (Mat. 5:19).

Kenrch,

I absolutely disagree here. Protestants lie and say that all you have to do is pray Jesus into your heart.

Where in the bible does it warrant this? please tell me. I've been looking for about 10 years now.

They use the thief on the cross to justify this. Did the thief on the cross inherit eternal life?

I believe so, but we have to look at the time frame here. The promise was made under the old covenant.

Jesus's death was the dividing line between the old covenant and the new covenant. To prove this let's look at scripture

Hebrews 9:15-17
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator lives.

So guys, when this promise was made to the thief, they were still under the old covenant. The command to baptize didn't come to after the resurrection of our Lord. There is a hell of a lot more to accepting Christ than saying a prayer.

Belief is important, John 3:16, Hebrews 11:6

Repentance is important, Luke 13:3

Confession is important, Romans 10:9. Notice the language, it says Will be saved, FUTURE TENSE.

Baptism is important, Mark 16:16 Same thing, it says Will be saved, again FUTURE TENSE.

Endurance or staying firm in the faith is important, Matthew 10:22, again it says Will be saved, FUTURE TENSE.

Another lie some Protestants tell is that once you're saved you're always saved. This lie leads to all kinds of unholy sinful living in the “church”.

If all I have to do to be saved is pray Jesus into my heart, and once I'm saved I cannot lose it.

Then why stop sinning? Why should I repent?
Why stop fornicating?
Why stop smoking my joints?
Why not get an abortion?
Why not continue shacking up?
Why give up homosexuality?

If one isn't repentant, there are sever consequences, see Revelation 2:5

If one doesn't endure or stand firm to the end, he or she runs the risk of having their name blotted out of the Lambs book of life see Revelation 3:5

So although you name is written in the Lambs book of life, it can be blotted out!!!!!

So long story short Kenrch I don't think the Protestants have the bases covered. They are standing around in the dugout!!!!!!!!!!!

[NickHassan]

amen

[kenrch]

Quote (Woutlaw @ June 04 2006,05:54)

But not to worry Nicky the Protestants have the basics in order to be saved.  so even if they convince you of their beliefs you will still enter the Kingdom (Mat. 5:19). Kenrch, I absolutely disagree here. Protestants lie and say that all you have to do is pray Jesus into your heart. Where in the bible does it warrant this? please tell me. I've been looking for about 10 years now. They use the thief on the cross to justify this. Did the thief on the cross inherit eternal life? I believe so, but we have to look at the time frame here. The promise was made under the old covenant. Jesus's death was the dividing line between the old covenant and the new covenant. To prove this let's look at scripture Hebrews 9:15-17 15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator lives. So guys, when this promise was made to the thief, they were still under the old covenant. The command to baptize didn't come to after the resurrection of our Lord. There is a hell of a lot more to accepting Christ than saying a prayer. Belief is important, John 3:16, Hebrews 11:6 Repentance is important, Luke 13:3 Confession is important, Romans 10:9. Notice the language, it says Will be saved, FUTURE TENSE. Baptism is important, Mark 16:16 Same thing, it says Will be saved, again FUTURE TENSE. Endurance or staying firm in the faith is important, Matthew 10:22, again it says Will be saved, FUTURE TENSE. Another lie some Protestants tell is that once you're saved you're always saved. This lie leads to all kinds of unholy sinful living in the “church”. If all I have to do to be saved is pray Jesus into my heart, and once I'm saved I cannot lose it. Then why stop sinning? Why should I repent? Why stop fornicating? Why stop smoking my joints? Why not get an abortion? Why not continue shacking up? Why give up homosexuality? If one isn't repentant, there are sever consequences, see Revelation 2:5 If one doesn't endure or stand firm to the end, he or she runs the risk of having their name blotted out of the Lambs book of life see Revelation 3:5 So although you name is written in the Lambs book of life, it can be blotted out!!!!! So long story short Kenrch I don't think the Protestants have the bases covered. They are standing around in the dugout!!!!!!!!!!!

Nicky, you had no answers so you recruited help but a poor choice though his name suits you both.

For ten years you have been reading with your eyes closed, with out law. The name you chose fits you to a tee, doesn't it. Sin is trangression of the law. But you have none and you keep none. Which is why you call yourself withoutlaw.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:

A babe in Christ knows this one!!!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.

Let me break it down for you withoutlaw. God loved the world(that's the place you are standing in) He gave His only Begotten (that means His only Son that He sired) Son (that would be JESUS) that WHOSOEVER would believe on Him (anyone who BELIEVES that Jesus IS that Son of God) Should not perish (not die) but have eternal life (never die). If you don't know that then Satan has had a time with you for ten years! However you must not WANT to know the plain and simple truth “with out law”

Act 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Heres another one WTL Repent( turn your back on, never do it again) and be baptized in the name of Jesus (Please tell me what Protestant church doesn't do that, so I can stay clear of them like you do 🙂 they receive God's Spirit (do you have God's Spirit “with out law”?)

Do you see if you study and know all the definitions then “according to your knowledge” you might be forgiven.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Gee look just believe on Jesus' name and you have the right to become children of God. Jesus gives you the right He makes you clean so you have the right (didn't want you to get confused ( WITH OUT LAW).

OH! The only ones saved are those with the most truth. But what if you don't have ALL the truth which you don't, no body does.
Were you ever a Protestant Wit, I know you were a Islam a worshiper of ALA. So exactly what is your back ground.

The fact remains MOST of us came out of the Catholic church one way or another. Is this not true. Who pulled you out of the Catholic church someone had to. Someone found most of us from the Protestant Faith. Someone crossed the line. But If everyone were to listen to you guys “NO ONE WOULD EVER COME OUT OF THE APOSTATE CHURCHES”. And if everyone thought as you then YOU would still be an Islam or whatever you were.

Go ahead hide your light, if indeed you have a light I can't see it because you are hiding it if you have anym light. Take the truth and bury it so no one will know go ahead do the “SATAN' thing.

Mat 6:22 The lamp of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is the darkness!

Hey no wander “with out law” couldn't find John 3:16

I know Protestants that would make you guys look like demons. Their love is exceedingly abundant and it matters not that you dissagree with “doctrine” as long as you “fellowship” with Christ and have the fruits of the Spirit.

Self rightreous people who think too much of themselves and forget WHERE they came from.

In Fact the only truth MOST (not all) have is that the Trinity Tridition is false and that's it. You wouldn't know Jesus if He were standing next to you.

Where is your “unconditional love” that the Holy Spirit gives.

That reminds me NICK do you get instruction from the Holy Spirit. No Nicky you don't all you here are your own thoughts and it shows. You never answer my simple questions! Well, it's simple if you have received the Holy Spirit who SHOULD guide you.

Is being saved that simple? You had better believe it is! As I told Nicky once before what of the people who can't read how do they get saved they are not interlects like Nicky. They don't reason their way AROUND of truth because they disagree.
Believe in your heart and be baptized and you shall be saved. That's it folks all you need to get in heaven is belief that Jesus died so you wouldn't have to. Everything else is hog wash in the case of salvation. But if you wa
nt to grow then seek MORE truth. When you accept Jesus then you are in but that's all, barely through the gates but none the less you're in.

All you need to receive the Holy Spirit is to ask. And your Father who is in heaven will give you His Holy Spirit. SEE how simple that is but NO you want to make things hard when it is simple and simple for a reason which apparently neither one of you can SEE.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? SEE HOW SIMPLE THAT IS.
“Give to them that ask” Try it if your heart is right then you will receive the Holy Spirit which you guys desperately need.

It's BASED ON FAITH NOT how many definitions and the bible you know. Satan knows the word more than any of us and so far has been taking you guys for a ride.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teacheth a different doctrine, and consenteth not to sound words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up, knowing nothing, but doting about questionings and disputes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, (Wow! disputing over words)

1Ti 6:5 wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth,
1Co 2:5 that your faith should not stand in the “wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” May be you should read that again especially he with no eyes.

1Co 1:27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but by their works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2Pe 2:12 But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed, railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed,

This scripture reminds me of another you should heed.

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

If everyone who doesn't believe in the Trinity are like you guys then may be I missed something because you guys have no fruits of the Spirit. Which is characteristic of a christian.

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