Is baptism needed for salvation?

[NickHassan]

Hi shania,
Rev 14.1 NASB
1Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

There must be manuscript variation to explain the difference from NIV and KJV surely?

[gsilva72]

Hi Shania,

I thought Jehovah was the name of the Father?  

[Shania]

Rev 14:1

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
KJV

Is this what you are talking about?
To tell you the truth, I wasn't aware of this difference until you mentioned it. I tend to use the NIV b/c it is easier for me to understand. I do know this: the KJV is translated from the textus receptus [ 5 works] and by the time the NIV was translated, there were a lot more than 5 works discovered. I think that they are both good translations, but maybe this has something to do with it? My knowledge of these things is pretty limited.

Either way, I do not see it as a contradiction. The name written on their foreheads is “YHWH is Salvation” “YHWH OSHEA” [However you spell it..] That name is a statement. It is the name of the Father, the way that He is manifested through the son.

Back in the day, the names of the prophets reflected their ministry; for example “Elijah” Elohim is YHWH. would do. Lead us out of the law and into the promise {walking in the Spirit}

Does this make sense?

[Shania]

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 22 2008,09:36)

Hi Shania, I thought Jehovah was the name of the Father?

The letter “J” did not come into existence till about 500 yrs ago. It then became a fad to tack of “Y” with “J”

[Shania]

HaHa! I meant “to replace “Y” with “J” “

my bad.

[Shania]

Also, very rarely will you see a Jew use the name, Yahuweh. During the captivity, it actually became illegal to say the name. You see, the pagan religions believed that if they found out the names of the enemies' gods, they could use that to curse them. Somehow the Jews gave this creedence, and they weren't allowed to say the name. Also, the pagan enemies were using it as a deragatory term. Anyone heard of “Yahoo?”

This is why the Jewish authorities got so angry when they heard the people shouting, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of YHWH!”

[gsilva72]

Shania

Doesn't Jesus mean Jehovah has become our salvation?  

[Tonycb]

The Greatest Lie Ever Told
by Stan Hallett

2 Corinthians 11:14,15

Who could tell the greatest lie? The answer is simple, the father of all lies who is none other than satan himself (John 8:44). What would one consider a perfect crime? Would it not be a crime where any evidence to the contrary would be hidden or could not be found? A perfect lie is one that is so near the truth that the person being deceived actually believes they have obtained what it is that the liar does not want them to have.
He starts out by telling them that this Christianity stuff isn't for them, and it works most of the time. But when they insist, he tricks them into accepting a fake form of Godliness. The apostle Paul talks about this in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 where he says: “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Most “Christians” today have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof. These are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of truth. The deceived person believes that they in fact have obtained it.

Slick sales people try to do this all the time. They try to convince you that what they are selling you is the best buy for your money, it's the genuine article, it's the best there is, and they have the best deal for you. You've been fooled this way before. We've all been taken by the con artist, the liar and the thief. How much better at lying and deception is the master of liars, the master of con men, the master of thieves?

You say “how could he do this”? Surely you'd recognized satan and his lies. But the Bible says that satan can appear as angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Further it says in the very next verse: “it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness”. That's right! There are men appearing as great men of God preaching to great crowds that they gather unto themselves. They are ministers of satan sent to deceive the masses, and indeed the masses are being deceived.

What is this greatest lie ever told? What is this great deception that is being preached by ministers of satan that are posing as great men of God across this country and the world? What is this lie that has deceived millions into believing that they are saved? The lie is the one that says that all you have to do is: “accept Jesus as your personal savior and you are saved.”

There are slightly different versions and variations to the lie, such as saying a little prayer, or asking forgiveness for all your sins, or a prayer of repentance along with accepting Jesus as your savior, but they are all lies, all deception and all part of the greatest lie that satan ever told.

You may say; “Wait a minute, isn't this in the Bible?” . . . Nope, not there. There is not one word in God's Word that says that all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal savior and you are then eternally saved.” There is not one word that says “simply say a little prayer and perhaps ask for forgiveness, or a prayer of repentance and you are saved.” There is not one single verse that says that “if you believe in Jesus Christ you will be saved”. . . not one.

So where did this come from? It came from satan influenced, twisting of scripture and adding and taking away from the Word of God.

Here are some of the popular verses that you might be quoted that are in the Bible that satan tries to twist to get you to swallow his lie:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” – John 3:16

They use this scripture to say that if you just believe in Jesus you'll be saved. The devil takes this one scripture, twists it and makes a doctrine out of it. What this verse is saying in truth is that if you believe in him, or in other words if you believe that he is Lord and Savior then with that belief you should obey the word of the Lord and be saved. If you indeed believe that He is Lord and Savior then you should not perish but act on what you believe and act on the gospel and be saved.

Jesus never said all you have to do to be saved is just believe in me. The Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble (James 2:19). What He did say is “except a man be born or water and of Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). What He did say was “…strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it”. (Matthew 7:14) Paul said: “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

There's another scripture that says; “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12).

This may seemingly give credence to the belief that “if you'll just receive Jesus as your personal savior and you'll be saved”. But that's not what it says at all! What it does say is that IF you truly receive Him as your Lord and Savior then you have the power to BECOME the son of God, even to them that believe on His name. It does not say if you believe in him you ARE saved, but that IF you believe on Him and IF you receive Him as your LORD and SAVIOR then indeed you HAVE the power to BECOME the sons of God and be saved.

satan twists the meaning of Ephesians 2:8,9 which says: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” He tries to get this to mean that we do not have to do anything including obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved. This doctrine claims that obeying John 3:5 or Acts 2:38, or any other scripture is a work and not required to be saved.

Yes, it is true that Jesus paid it all on the cross. It is true that we cannot earn our own salvation by doing good works or any other means. But obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT a work, it is obedience. Neither can you earn it by obedience, but only it is only through obedience to the Gospel are you saved.

2 Thessalonians 1:7,8 says; “…when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

If indeed obedience to the Gospel is a work, if true repentance is a work, if being baptized in His name is a work and not necessary for salvation, then indeed praying the “sinners prayer” or “accepting Jesus as your personal savior” is also a work and not needed by the rules of this very same twisted doctrine.

No, we cannot earn salvation. We are not worthy of it no matter what we do. It is indeed by grace we are saved and not of ourselves lest any man should boast. However, if we truly accept Him as Lord and Savior, then being our Lord means that we are to be obedient to Him. If we are not obedient to Him then we are saying He is not our Lord thus we have NOT accepted Him as Lord and savior and we are liars.

In Acts 16:30 the jailer asked Paul and Silas; “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

Many again use this to somehow say that all is needed is to believe in Him. But Paul sand Silas were not saying that they needed to believe in Jesus like some children believe in Santa Claus. To believe on Jesus means to put our
trust in Him for who He is, our Lord and our Savior. For indeed if he is our Lord we will be obedient to His Word. If we do not obey His Word then we are liars and He is not our Lord and we do not believe on Him.

Most “Christians” today want the Savior part, but do not want a Lord. They want the benefit, but not what they consider to be a price that comes with it. They want to be saved but still do as they please. They want to be assured they are going to heaven and still enjoy the pleasures of this world. satan gives them exactly what they want. . . at least they think they have it. They've been duped by the greatest lie ever told!

We are either a slave to satan or a servant of Jesus, there is no in between.

What to know how to be saved, really? Read “Salvation in a Nutshell” at http://apostolic-voice.org/tracts/nutshell.htm

[Shania]

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 24 2008,10:20)

Shania Doesn't Jesus mean Jehovah has become our salvation?

Like I said, the letter J is only about 500 years old, therefore it is impossible for Jehovah to be the Father's name.

Jesus is a transliteration. There is nothing wrong with using the name of Jesus, it still carries the meaning, “YHWH is salvation.” It is just an english form of Yahushua {Some spell this Yahshua, Yeshua, Yahoshua, Yehoshua.} The reason I like using the name “Yahushua” is because you can see the meaning more clearly: “Yahuweh is salvation{oshea}” [The way to spell Yahuweh is also disputed, because these vowels do not exist in Hebrew {though the sounds that they make do.}

Jehovah is a form or transliteration of YHWH.

Here is the path of transliteration for “Jesus”

Yahushua. [Hebrew] The Greeks could not make the sounds “YAH” “HU” and “SHUA” These sounds did not exist in their vocabulary. The best that they could do was “IESUS” [pronounced “EE” “Aeh” “SOOS”]. In latin, the best they could do was “ISUS” [EEE SOOS]. When J came around, in english it became “Jesus”

make any sense?

[gsilva72]

Hi Shania Quote: The name of the Father is YHWH [Yahweh/ Yahuweh.]
The name of the Son is Yahushua.  [YHWH + oshea(salvation)]  His name is literally, “Yahuweh is Salvation”
The Spirit is the Father.

Thus, the name of the Father/ the son/ the holy spirit is “Yahushua” in english, “Jesus”

Scripture says that the son inherited the Father's name, to the esteem of the Father.  Everything that Yahushua [Jesus] did directed all attention to the Father.  YHWH is salvation, through Yahushua.

John 17:11-12
Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name — the name you gave me — so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me.
NIV

John 5:42-43
43 I have come in my Father's name , and you do not accept me;
NIV

Acts 4:12

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
NIV

Phil 2:9-11
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name ,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
NIV

Heb 1:4
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
NIV

Rev 14:1
14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
NIV

The name above all names is the name of the Father in the Son….

Is this more understandable now?

So is Jesus the name of the Father?

[NickHassan]

Hi gs,
The Son is not the Father.
The Son acts in the name of the Father.
We in Christ act in His name too, through the Son.
We are given the name and authority of the Son to do God's work.
ONE

Jn17. 7-22

[gsilva72]

Hi gs,
The Son is not the Father.
The Son acts in the name of the Father.
We in Christ act in His name too, through the Son.
Hi Nick-  Quote “We are given the name and authority of the Son to do God's work.
ONE”

Jn17. 7-22

So then, what is the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?  

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 27 2008,02:23)

Hi gs, The Son is not the Father. The Son acts in the name of the Father. We in Christ act in His name too, through the Son. Hi Nick-  Quote “We are given the name and authority of the Son to do God's work. ONE” Jn17. 7-22 So then, what is the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

gsilva72

Just a little tip. If you want to quote someone, rather than copying and pasting their quote in a new box, just click on the “quote' button in the top right of their post then just type your responce in the white box. Hope this helps.
Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 27 2008,02:23)

Hi gs, The Son is not the Father. The Son acts in the name of the Father. We in Christ act in His name too, through the Son. Hi Nick-  Quote “We are given the name and authority of the Son to do God's work. ONE” Jn17. 7-22 So then, what is the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

Hi gs,
It seems the verse you quote from Matt 28 has been added to the bible.

According to the early librarian and bishop Eusebius the original verse read
“in his name”

Makes sense when you know Jesus is the Son of God.

[gsilva72]

Hi gs,
It seems the verse you quote from Matt 28 has been added to the bible.

Nick Quote “According to the early librarian and bishop Eusebius the original verse read
“in his name”
Makes sense when you know Jesus is the Son of God.”
Mat 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

So you are saying it should be written like this: Mat 28:19 “Go ye therefore and teach all nations in his name” ?

[NickHassan]

Hi gs,
No, Baptism in the name of Jesus, as the apostles obediently did as shown in Acts.

[gsilva72]

Hi Nick,

I understand Baptism is in the name of Jesus. What i am trying ot understand is your explanation of Matthew 28:19. You said the orginal verse read in his name.

[NickHassan]

Hi Gs,
Try the thread I brought up.

[Shania]

Quote (gsilva72 @ May 27 2008,04:59)

So is Jesus the name of the Father?

The name of the Father is YHWH. The name of the son is Yahushua [contraction of YHWH+OSHEA. The english form of this is Jesus, however ironically Joshua is the same name. I don't understand why they tranliterated them differently]

Jesus is not the name of the Father.
The name Yahushua [Jesus] encompassas the name of the Father.

[NickHassan]

Hi shania,
So does ELIJAH and others.

No GS Jesus is the Son of God, and the first of the many reborn sons of God.

[Author]

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