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Hi t8,
Thanks for the response. Yes I am expressing an opinion and perhaps should have made that more clear.
My point is that there is some knowledge we do not have and to wander into the realms of “what if” as some often do on these threads is to stray off truth into philosophy and assumption.Paul wandered throughout the Mediterranean countries and must have encountered thousands more people in many different ways but only his God appointed contacts are reported. As Jesus asked in Lk 4.26f how many lepers were in Israel in the days of Elisha but God healed only Naaman the Syrian? And how many starving widows in Israel when Elijah was used to help the woman in Sidon?
We do not know of other things except what God did, and we do know every hair of our head is counted. No earthly circumstance is beyond the knowledge and will of God and He ensures His will is accomplished for those foreknown and chosen by Him.
God can and does save men outside of the Way of Jesus. The second resurrection is an example of this mercy. No one will give us a cup of water because we belong to Him and lose their reward. But that does not change the message. Paul taught and acted in a way always consistent with the belief that we must be born of water and the Spirit. Second options are risky. The Way is clear.
Absolutely Nick.
We should baptise all believers. That much is clear and is also aptly demonstrated in scripture.
I personally think that this is enough for us to do the same.
So let us all as brothers in the Lord agree that it is expedient that if one who accepts Jesus as their personal saviour into their hearts, that they are saved. And we as brothers agree that those who have accepted Christ be uged with stong persuasion to recieve both the water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and soon as possible. We also agree that it is not up to man to discern that if one dies without the baptism if the born again if he remains saved or not. That is a matter for God, for only God knows the hearts of men. Thank you brothers. I love you and the Lord loves you. Let this matter be closed. His will be done.
heiscomingintheclouds where does it say in scripture “if one who accepts Jesus as their personal saviour into their hearts,”.
Just curious
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 05 2006,22:44) So let us all as brothers in the Lord agree that it is expedient that if one who accepts Jesus as their personal saviour into their hearts, that they are saved. And we as brothers agree that those who have accepted Christ be uged with stong persuasion to recieve both the water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit and soon as possible. We also agree that it is not up to man to discern that if one dies without the baptism if the born again if he remains saved or not. That is a matter for God, for only God knows the hearts of men. Thank you brothers. I love you and the Lord loves you. Let this matter be closed. His will be done.
Hi H,
Not at all. The way of salvation you preach here is not written except in the imaginations of men.
“ACCEPTING JESUS AS SAVIOUR”
appears nowhere in scripture as a door to salvation.When I accepted Jesus into my heart, there was Jesus and myself present. Even though I was in a room filled with people, it was just Jesus and I. He came into my heart like a rushing wind. I asked him to forgive me for my sins and to come into my heart and he did and from the moment forward, he has and is my personal saviour. If there was only one man in the world who would be saved, Jesus would give his life for that man. When a man believes, he comes into that man. Have you not heard that by faith the word is written on the fleshly tablets of the heart? And Jesus is the Word.
2 Cor.3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Jesus is the Word of God and is written in our hearts with the Spirit of the living God.
Hi H,
So do you think your testimony signals a new way established by God? Do your experiences prove these things? Is scripture no longer our teacher and we can set up our own salvation?
How reliable are our experiences?
Paul had an amazing experience with Jesus himself and still went through the waters of salvation.Coll 2.18
“Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self abasement and the worship of the angels, TAKING HIS STAND ON VISIONS HE HAS SEEN, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind”
Rom 9.1-3
'Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I bear witness that they have a zeal for God, but NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH KNOWLEDGE. For not knowing about God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they DID NOT SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD”Think again
Nick, my experience goes along perfectly with scripture. I believed and the word came into my heart. I became a new creature in Christ.
Hi H,
Then you can be assured as far as your natural mind is concerned that you are safe in Christ. But we do not serve our minds. The Word of God is greater than our minds. It is safer still to have the three witnesses in heaven.Hi H,
Prov 3.5f
“Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and turn away from evil”
I accept you are not ready to go beyond your experiences in this matter but I hope you will check these issues in the light of what we can rely on, biblical truth.Brothers, I don't think there are any grey areas with God. Again, with the example I gave earlier with Aaron and his sons. God commanded them to wash before they could enter the tabernacle to minister for him(GOD). If they refused to wash they would have died PERIOD. So what they were priests, so what they were jews, folks God isn't a respecter of persons. He don't care who you are, you WILL obey his commands or suffer the consequences. Not obeying God's commands is sin. God is a just God who must punish sin.
Hey if he didn't spare the angels when they disobeyed, what in God's green earth makes us think that we will “slip through the cracks?”
Shalom
Acts 4:12 There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!”
Acts 14:9 this one was hearing Paul speaking, who, having stedfastly beheld him, and having seen that he hath faith to be saved,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Nick and Woutlaw,
To be saved, on must believe with all of his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I asked Jesus to forgive me for my sins and asked him into my heart and he saved me. I know I was saved with all of my very existance. God has been in my life since I was a very young child. You can doubt my salvation, but that will be between you and God. As for baptism being a requirment of salvation woutlaw, where in the above scriptures does it say baptism saves a man? It says faith, believing, confession. Brother, baptism is very important, but to say one is not saved by not being baptized is to be the judge of that man. Let God be the judge in this matter. It is our job to try to spead the gospel and if a man is born again, urge him to be baptized.
Hi H,
At least we know now why you have continued to foster the beliefs you have about salvation as you were basing them on your experiences. Dig deeper and base your foundation on rock.True Woutlaw.
We must obey his commands if we belong to him.
It's not up to us to choose what we will and won't do. If we are servants, we do what the master wants us to do.He commanded that we be baptised. So we should do that which he commanded.
Acts 20:27
For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.1 John 2:17
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.Ephesians 6:6
Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.Hebrews 10:36
You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 06 2006,19:05) 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Romans 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
It is true heiscomingintheclouds that they are scripture and truth. Who are we to contradict those scriptures. They are very clear too.Nick,
My experience goes perfectly with the bible. All things were made new when Jesus came into my heart.
Is Jesus the Word?
Does it not say the Word is written on the fleshly tablets of our heart?2 Cor.3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Dear T8,
I commend you in your wisdom, for it comes from above and it gives me comfidence in you as a brother in the Lord and the moderator of the group. God bless brother.:;):
Hi H,
One thing we know about the Spirit is that he does not act on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Christ.So the Spirit does not teach us anything new about salvation or anything else and such new ideas come from other religious spirits.
That is why we have to test the spirits.
So if you have a new revelation on these matters you must declare and show it aligned perfectly with scripture.
What you teach does not seem to align with the ways of the apostles in Acts so where does it come from?
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