Is baptism needed for salvation?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Paul is yet alive..in the Spirit.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,10:21)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future. Revelation 6:12-7:5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. k Paul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. T, My point is Paul was dead before the Sixth seal was opened, and for that matter I believe it is still closed.  It is the living that are sealed and not the dead so Paul could not be one of them even though he is a Jew, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

K

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

I do not see that it was to come ,it seems to me that THEY WERE ALREADY

[NickHassan]

Hi ,
God is God of the living.
We only get 80 or so years here so eternal life in Jesus is more relevant

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2014,06:58)

Hi , God is God of the living. We only get 80 or so years here so eternal life in Jesus is more relevant

TOPYCAL

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2014,12:04)

Hi KW, Paul is yet alive..in the Spirit.

Nick,

I agree but the John speaks of the 144000 is id they were still in their mortal bodies.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2014,06:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,10:21) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future. Revelation 6:12-7:5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. k Paul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. T, My point is Paul was dead before the Sixth seal was opened, and for that matter I believe it is still closed.  It is the living that are sealed and not the dead so Paul could not be one of them even though he is a Jew, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. K Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. I do not see that it was to come ,it seems to me that THEY WERE ALREADY

T,

I am not speaking if Revelations 14 which seems to happen after the events recorded about the Sixth seal where is states:

Quote

Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads

Paul was neither of the earth, neither of the sea, nor of the trees, as his body had died previous to the Sixth seal being opened.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2014,00:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2014,06:34) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,10:21) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future. Revelation 6:12-7:5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. k Paul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. T, My point is Paul was dead before the Sixth seal was opened, and for that matter I believe it is still closed.  It is the living that are sealed and not the dead so Paul could not be one of them even though he is a Jew, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. K Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. I do not see that it was to come ,it seems to me that THEY WERE ALREADY T, I am not speaking if Revelations 14 which seems to happen after the events recorded about the Sixth seal where is states: Quote Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads Paul was neither of the earth, neither of the sea, nor of the trees, as his body had died previous to the Sixth seal being opened.

K

your interpretation is that that verse means that all of the 144 k are not included

could you explain more

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 14 2014,08:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2014,00:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2014,06:34) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,10:21) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future. Revelation 6:12-7:5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. k Paul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. T, My point is Paul was dead before the Sixth seal was opened, and for that matter I believe it is still closed.  It is the living that are sealed and not the dead so Paul could not be one of them even though he is a Jew, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. K Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. I do not see that it was to come ,it seems to me that THEY WERE ALREADY T, I am not speaking if Revelations 14 which seems to happen after the events recorded about the Sixth seal where is states: Quote Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads Paul was neither of the earth, neither of the sea, nor of the trees, as his body had died previous to the Sixth seal being opened. K your interpretation is that that verse means that all of the 144 k are not included could you explain more

T,

I am pointing out that the 144000 are Jewish non-Danite males that had the ability to be harmed during the time of the Sixth Seal according to a literal interpretation of the book of Revelations. Paul fails to qualify as one of them due to the fact he died long before the Sixth Seal was opened.

[kerwin]

T,

It appears the 144,000 are the flesh that are saved from the earth in the last day. They are the ones that are changed and snatched up to meet the King in the sky.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
We must die with Jesus in water baptism to be freed from sin and the promise of the Spirit of life is ours.[Rom6]

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Water baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ, not any other name.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

[terraricca]

hi

true baptism is in the heart and soul and also in the mind and action ;faith without deeds is dead

no single action will save you , but the true worship in truth and spirit will

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,06:52)

Hi, Water baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ, not any other name.

My serious questions:

1. If baptism in water is being *BORN* again;then why
billions of *BORN* again christians have to go through the
tribulation;and many will be rejected.

2. What is the significant of water baptism;since it was
Johns baptism? And still can be rejected in the end.

3 Does not *BORN* again mean exactly what it says?
BORN one more time? (meaning BORN twice).

4. Scripture says that Mother Zion is having birth pains,
ready for her children to be *BORN*.
What is this all about then?

Please can anyone with some knowledge explain?
No lecture please.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
If you think it is the baptism of John you have not read Acts 19.
It is not enough.

Those of Christ are rescued out of the tribulation before the wrath of God is expressed.

The meaning of baptism is explained by Jesus in Jn 3 and Peter in his first letter.

God requires it but that is an insufficient reason for most men who have been put to sleep by the prince of this world.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

1) Baptism in water is when a person enters the new covenant and so received the gift of the holy spirit. It is whether a person seeks to learn by the spirit or not that determines if that person will inherit the kingdom of heaven, Acts 2:38, Galatians 5:19-23.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

2) Water baptism is the seal on the new covenant that is signed with Jesus' self sacrifice, Romans 6:3-7.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

3) Born again is a way of saying your old man will die with Christ and your new man will be born from the grave, Romans 6:3-7.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

4)   Everyone that is born again is a child of the kingdom.

Matthew 13:47-50
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,02:38)

Hi WU, If you think it is the baptism of John you have not read Acts 19. It is not enough. Those of Christ are rescued out of the tribulation before the wrath of God is expressed. The meaning of baptism is explained by Jesus in Jn 3 and Peter in his first letter. God requires it but that is an insufficient reason for most men who have been put to sleep by the prince of this world.

hi n

Quote

Those of Christ are rescued out of the tribulation before the wrath of God is expressed.

no one will escape the tribulation ,all those in Jesus and the apostles time are dead and many died a martyr dead ,
why would it be different for the others

confusion with the wrath of God and the tribulation

what it means to be baptized in the holy spirit

Mk 1:4 John came, who baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins.
Ac 1:5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Ac 11:16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit

what is the holy spirit SO THAT SOMEONE CAN BE BAPTIZED IN IT TELL ME

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