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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2014,23:53) T, Let us look at actual Scripture and not the opinion of man about Scripture. It is written:
Revelation 7:9
American Standard Version (ASV)
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
This great multitude stood before the throne of God and that throne is in heaven. They also stood before Jesus who is symbolically referred to as the Lamb.
The fact that symbolism is used at one point in the description makes me think it is used in other points as well but lets instead say it is not. In that case there are a multitude of Jews and other citizens of other nations that are in heave standing before God's throne and before King Jesus.
KRev7; 9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
2CH 9:18 There were six steps to the throne and a footstool in gold attached to the throne,
PS 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord:
“ Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”PS 132:7 Let us go into His dwelling place;
Let us worship at His footstool.LA 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion
With a cloud in His anger!
He has cast from heaven to earth
The glory of Israel,
And has not remembered His footstool
In the day of His anger.MT 5:35 or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.
JAS 2:3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,”
those scriptures above shows the that the earth is the footstool of God's throne,and so not in heaven beside God ,
the scriptures it self answer all question not men
T,
Earth is God's footstool and heaven is God's throne but the multitude was not sitting on God's footstool but they stood before his throne and before his King nor does Revelations 7:9 mention Jesus' enemies.
Isaiah 66:1
American Standard Version (ASV)66 Thus saith Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: what manner of house will ye build unto me? and what place shall be my rest?
Psalm 103:19
American Standard Version (ASV)19 Jehovah hath established his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.
Let's say that the events in Revelation 7:9 are symbolical and it does not literally mean that the multitude is literally before the throne of God but instead they are symbolically before God. That is a reasonable conclusion based on the fact that Jesus is only symbolically a lamb. That seems to be the opinion you are voicing. If so I agree with you.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,05:17) T, Earth is God's footstool and heaven is God's throne but the multitude was not sitting on God's footstool but they stood before his throne and before his King nor does Revelations 7:9 mention Jesus' enemies.
Isaiah 66:1
American Standard Version (ASV)66 Thus saith Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: what manner of house will ye build unto me? and what place shall be my rest?
Psalm 103:19
American Standard Version (ASV)19 Jehovah hath established his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.
Let's say that the events in Revelation 7:9 are symbolical and it does not literally mean that the multitude is literally before the throne of God but instead they are symbolically before God. That is a reasonable conclusion based on the fact that Jesus is only symbolically a lamb. That seems to be the opinion you are voicing. If so I agree with you.
kand were is that spot BEFORE THE THRONE
Earth is God's footstool and heaven is God's throne but the multitude was not sitting on God's footstool but they stood before his throne
k
Quote Let's say that the events in Revelation 7:9 are symbolical and it does not literally mean that the multitude is literally before the throne of God but instead they are symbolically before God. That is a reasonable conclusion based on the fact that Jesus is only symbolically a lamb. That seems to be the opinion you are voicing. If so I agree with you. YES THEY ARE BEFORE GOD ;DOES EVEN GOD AS A THRONE LIKE MEN
OR IT ONLY MEANS BEFORE THE ONE THAT WILL JUDGE AND THAT HOLDS THE POWER TO DO SO ,WE ARE JUDGE FORE OUR WORSHIP ;IT SHOULD IN TRUTH AND SPIRIT ;
AND YES CHRIST HIS THE SYMBOLICAL SACRIFICIAL LAMB ,FOR OUR SINS ;
BUT HE IS ALSO OTHER THINGS LIKE “THE WORD”
T,
I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,08:46) T, I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
KAGREE
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,09:18) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,08:46) T, I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
KAGREE
T,You see how Revelations 7:9 is symbolism but you do not see that symbolism is also used earlier in the chapter when speaking about the twelve tribes. The symbolism of the 12 tribes seem clear since one of the original tribes was removed and its place was given to another. The same thing happened with the twelve apostles. Twelve is a symbolic number because it is the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles. It may have other links that a search of Scripture would. 1000 is a nice round number and fairly high. Each tribe has exactly the same number of individuals. This all makes it seem like symbolism.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,09:18) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,08:46) T, I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
KAGREE
T,You see how Revelations 7:9 is symbolism but you do not see that symbolism is also used earlier in the chapter when speaking about the twelve tribes. The symbolism of the 12 tribes seem clear since one of the original tribes was removed and its place was given to another. The same thing happened with the twelve apostles. Twelve is a symbolic number because it is the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles. It may have other links that a search of Scripture would. 1000 is a nice round number and fairly high. Each tribe has exactly the same number of individuals. This all makes it seem like symbolism.
Knot when it is confirmed in rev 14 ,and what about the temple of God in EZEK;
that was never buildQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,22:11) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,09:18) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,08:46) T, I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
KAGREE
T,You see how Revelations 7:9 is symbolism but you do not see that symbolism is also used earlier in the chapter when speaking about the twelve tribes. The symbolism of the 12 tribes seem clear since one of the original tribes was removed and its place was given to another. The same thing happened with the twelve apostles. Twelve is a symbolic number because it is the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles. It may have other links that a search of Scripture would. 1000 is a nice round number and fairly high. Each tribe has exactly the same number of individuals. This all makes it seem like symbolism.
Knot when it is confirmed in rev 14 ,and what about the temple of God in EZEK;
that was never build
T,It is not confirming what you have been taught by men. If you look the 144000, like the multitude, are before the throne. Taking literally they are all male virgins. The idea the the 14400 being on Mt Zion with Jesus Christ makes it seem to be the time when people will called up to meet him in the clouds. If I remember correctly Jesus speaks of women also be called.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 10 2014,22:15) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,22:11) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 09 2014,09:18) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2014,08:46) T, I believe throne is the symbol for God's Kingdom's center of power. In other word's the multitude is standing before the center of power of God's kingdom and before Jesus the King. Their physical location is not important to the idea expressed by Revelations 7:9.
KAGREE
T,You see how Revelations 7:9 is symbolism but you do not see that symbolism is also used earlier in the chapter when speaking about the twelve tribes. The symbolism of the 12 tribes seem clear since one of the original tribes was removed and its place was given to another. The same thing happened with the twelve apostles. Twelve is a symbolic number because it is the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles. It may have other links that a search of Scripture would. 1000 is a nice round number and fairly high. Each tribe has exactly the same number of individuals. This all makes it seem like symbolism.
Knot when it is confirmed in rev 14 ,and what about the temple of God in EZEK;
that was never build
T,It is not confirming what you have been taught by men. If you look the 144000, like the multitude, are before the throne. Taking literally they are all male virgins. The idea the the 14400 being on Mt Zion with Jesus Christ makes it seem to be the time when people will called up to meet him in the clouds. If I remember correctly Jesus speaks of women also be called.
Kthere is no sex in heaven ;so being all called male is ok,
the scriptures says ;except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.this is clear not one less not one more ,
and it is not symbolic ; and are not before the throne ;
Rev 14:4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blamelessThey follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
is the Lamb of God also before the throne
NOdoes not Paul says that those who meet him in the air are those who would be still alive at his coming
YESonly the great crowed is before the throne of God
be careful in what you believe being the truth Kerwin
T,
If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future.
Revelation 6:12-7:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2014,02:24) Hi,
Are not the WOMEN spoken of the WHORE and her daughters?
Nick,Good question for T.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future.
Revelation 6:12-7:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
kPaul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 11 2014,02:24) Hi,
Are not the WOMEN spoken of the WHORE and her daughters?
are the women all whores ???NickQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2014,00:42) T, If you choose to take Revelations literally then Paul is not one of the 144,000 as they are sealed during the opening of the sixth seal that John sees happening in the future.
Revelation 6:12-7:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
kPaul;Phil 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
REV 7:8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.
T,My point is Paul was dead before the Sixth seal was opened, and for that matter I believe it is still closed. It is the living that are sealed and not the dead so Paul could not be one of them even though he is a Jew, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
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