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Pierre,
We are off topic but scripture actually states Paul is the minister of both the people of Israel and the Jews. Paul does say he was given the grace to minister to the Gentile, in Romans 15:16 but that does not contradict what God stated in Acts 9:15 as Paul was speaking to the Church in Rome, which is a Gentile city. He also stated he had at that time preached the gospel from “Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum” in Romans15:9 and we know Jerusalem to be a Jewish city.
We are returning to be back on topic. You ask whether baptism in the heart or flesh is the Baptism that counts and yet I already pointed out elsewhere, that the result of obeying all of Jesus’ teachings is what counts.
Jesus performed a miracle one day and commanded a blind man to wash himself in the pool of Siloam was it the ritual of washing of the flesh that caused the man to see or the power of God. If the man had disobeyed would his eyes have been opened? I tell you they would not because faith bears fruit.
So if you believe God you will do as he states because belief bears fruit. Did Peter lie when he stated “believe and be baptized everyone for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? I doubt you believe that so it must be that in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit one must believe and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins and as a result they will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 10 2011,15:11) Pierre, immersed in Christ means to be immersed into the holy spirit; which is also called the spirit of Christ.
Look at Acts 2:38-39 and you will see that the result of being baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins is that you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. One place the promise of the Spirit of Christ is written is Matthew 5:6.
References:
Acts 2(NIV)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Matthew 5(NIV)
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
Kerwin,You need to follow the Acts story all the way through. Water baptism was no longer required after God revealed to Peter that God had CLEANSED all men. After the vision Peter only allowed Cornelius and his house to be baptized to indicate that all men had been accepted into the covenant and not Jews alone. But he did not require it. Note that Peter said, “What forbids these to be baptized with water”? This was not a mandate like before.
Baptism was the old covenant bathing ritual. After God had CLEANSED all men there was no more need for men to be bathed. Cornelius and his house were the last to be baptized by water. After that Paul baptized only with the Holy Spirit. Water baptism was finished.
KJ
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2011,03:17) Pierre, We are off topic but scripture actually states Paul is the minister of both the people of Israel and the Jews. Paul does say he was given the grace to minister to the Gentile, in Romans 15:16 but that does not contradict what God stated in Acts 9:15 as Paul was speaking to the Church in Rome, which is a Gentile city. He also stated he had at that time preached the gospel from “Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum” in Romans15:9 and we know Jerusalem to be a Jewish city.
We are returning to be back on topic. You ask whether baptism in the heart or flesh is the Baptism that counts and yet I already pointed out elsewhere, that the result of obeying all of Jesus’ teachings is what counts.
Jesus performed a miracle one day and commanded a blind man to wash himself in the pool of Siloam was it the ritual of washing of the flesh that caused the man to see or the power of God. If the man had disobeyed would his eyes have been opened? I tell you they would not because faith bears fruit.
So if you believe God you will do as he states because belief bears fruit. Did Peter lie when he stated “believe and be baptized everyone for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? I doubt you believe that so it must be that in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit one must believe and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins and as a result they will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.
Kerwinwen I talk about the hearth i am not talking about the flesh pump for blood;
but about our deepest toughts and feelings of our inner being and soul;
the flesh can not be immerged in toughts only in water.
the soul (spirit ) can be filled with the knowledge of God so that what we think and do is now totally in conformity with God s will.
if you say that baptism in water still in effect then you are saying that men interference is needed to be saved,just as it was with the circumcision of the flesh.
rituals are to inslave people not to free them,Christ came to free is followers ,with the knowledge of the truth what is the word of God.(not mens)and tell me how do we recieve the holy spirit ??
is it mens will or at God s pleasure??is it not related to the deeds you do in your soul to become a servant of God ?
Pierre
Pierre,
You seem to fail to understand faith. That is why I used the miracle of the blind man and the pool of Siloam as an example. God was the one who healed the blind man whose faith demonstrated in him doing as Jesus instructed him to even as James states those faith will, James 2:18. So must we for faith without action is dead. James 2:17.
Peter was speaking the message of Salvation when he taught on Pentecost and he did not teach those who heard a message that was false. So in declaring that to those who asked what they must do he was being carried along by the Spirit of God. His command was to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the spirit of righteousness.
Do you not understand what James means when he states:
James 2
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
Peter obvious did which is why he taught about water baptism in Acts 2. Paul teaches the same message as is testified by his actions with the students of John the Baptist in Acts 19:1-7 as he rebaptized them in water after hearing they had only been baptized for repentance.
I already told you how one that believes receives the Holy Spirit in giving you the example and of the miracle of the pool and the blind man and James example of Abraham and his offering Isaac on the altar.
Don’t you realize the new life Paul teaches us in Romans 6:1-7 that we received at baptism is the Holy Spirit and the old man is the impure spirit of man that binds us to sin?
Mike said:
Quote Keith, what name does Paul end up baptizing in in Acts 19? Keith answered:
Quote It doesn't matter because they are both scriptures and it is to be accepted as scripture and not just cast aside because your doctrine doesn't fit. You refuse to see how the verse harmonizes with all of scripture. You are using scripture against scripture and casting doubt on them. That means that you believe the Bible is corrupt and proves to me that not matter what proof we show you that Jesus is God you will just cast it aside like you do a lot of scriptures like John 1:1 and the rest that say Jesus is God.
WJ
TO ALL,
It doesn't matter also because Paul baptized with the Holy Spirit on that occasion (19:5-6). This had nothing to do with Jesus' statement in Matthew 28:19. In the Great commission Jesus was speaking about baptizing in the classical sense of the term which involved producing a change in the character of men.
Quote Whatever is capable of thoroughly changing the character, state or condition of any object, is capable of baptizing that object; and by such change of character, state, or condition does, in fact baptize it. Classic Baptism, James W. Dale, p. 353-354
That Jesus was speaking about 'baptizing' in its classical sense is proven by the fact that the word 'baptizing' is a participle. A participle is a verbal adjective and a verbal adjective describes the action of the noun. Baptizing in Matthew 28:19 is not a separate act from the action of the noun. It is a DESCRIPTION of the action of the noun. To make disciples IS to baptize them. “Go and make disciples, baptizing them….”Mike cannot prove a disconnect between what Jesus said and what the apostles did until he FIRST proves that Jesus was speaking about water baptism. And it is beyond me how Mike can invoke a baptism with the Holy Spirit as proof that there was a disconnect.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 12 2011,11:13) Mike said: Quote Keith, what name does Paul end up baptizing in in Acts 19? Keith answered:
Quote It doesn't matter because they are both scriptures and it is to be accepted as scripture and not just cast aside because your doctrine doesn't fit. You refuse to see how the verse harmonizes with all of scripture. You are using scripture against scripture and casting doubt on them. That means that you believe the Bible is corrupt and proves to me that not matter what proof we show you that Jesus is God you will just cast it aside like you do a lot of scriptures like John 1:1 and the rest that say Jesus is God.
WJ
TO ALL,
It doesn't matter also because Paul baptized with the Holy Spirit on that occasion (19:5-6). This had nothing to do with Jesus' statement in Matthew 28:19. In the Great commission Jesus was speaking about baptizing in the classical sense of the term which involved producing a change in the character of men.
Quote Whatever is capable of thoroughly changing the character, state or condition of any object, is capable of baptizing that object; and by such change of character, state, or condition does, in fact baptize it. Classic Baptism, James W. Dale, p. 353-354
That Jesus was speaking about 'baptizing' in its classical sense is proven by the fact that the word 'baptizing' is a participle. A participle is a verbal adjective and a verbal adjective describes the action of the noun. Baptizing in Matthew 28:19 is not a separate act from the action of the noun. It is a DESCRIPTION of the action of the noun. To make disciples IS to baptize them. “Go and make disciples, baptizing them….”Mike cannot prove a disconnect between what Jesus said and what the apostles did until he FIRST proves that Jesus was speaking about water baptism. And it is beyond me how Mike can invoke a baptism with the Holy Spirit as proof that there was a disconnect.
KJ
Ac 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’Ac 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
Ac 8:15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
Ac 8:16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Ac 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.this would clear up things
but remember the holy spirit is not a person or being,
(like dove,or like tongue of flames split over 120)
Pierre
Pierre said:
Quote Ac 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
Amen!Water baptism was the bathing ritual for ceremonial uncleanness. After God had WASHED all races of men of their ceremonial uncleanness there was no more need for the bathing by water ritual.
KJ
To all,
Jesus teaches us in John 16:7-15 that when he ascends to heaven that he will send the Holy Spirit to believers in its role as a councilor of righteousness. The Holy Spirit has come to some in other roles previously as is testified by Numbers 11:16-30. In the later case it comes in it role of dispensing talents among men as God determines. The purpose of the talents is as a sign to either the believer or unbeliever according to the gift, 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.
In its role as councilor the Holy Spirit is a guide believers are instructed to walk according to, Galatians 5:16. In living by its teachings of righteousness you fulfill the righteous requirements of the law which is to love as God loves. The guidance of love is superior to the talents just as 1 Corinthians 13:1 testifies.
The Holy Spirit in scripture in its role of the giver of talents is sometimes passed along by the laying on of hands. This corresponds to the laying hands on the Levites so that they were made ready to do the work of the Lord, Numbers 8:5-11. As other times it is conferred as a wind.
The Holy Spirit in its role of councilor is received when a believing individual is immersed in water for the forgiveness of their sins and so set free from sin, Romans 6:1-7.
At Pentecost the Holy Spirit arrived in its role as the giver of talents, Acts 2:1-4 to notify the disciples that their time had come and to show them approved by God to those outside of the church. When Peter answered those with a broken spirit and a contrite heart that they needed to repent and be immersed in water for the forgiveness of sins and thus claim the promise of the Holy Spirit he speaks of it in its role of councilor.
In the case of Cornelius and his household, Acts 10:44-48, you have the same thing that occurred at Pentecost; in that the Holy Spirit arrived in its role of the giver of talents to show that gentiles were ready to do the work of the Lord. After the sign was seen the believing, who are by definition poor in spirit, household was immersed in water for the forgiveness of their sins and thus received the Holy Spirit in its role of councilor.
Hi Jack:
This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,10:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyand they were all Jews
Pierre
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,03:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
God changed when He cleansed all races of men. Some men were ceremonially unclean before God. Then God revealed to Peter that He had cleansed all men. Water baptism was the bathing ritual that was required for ceremonial uncleanness.Therefore, after God washed all men of their ceremonial uncleanness water baptism was done away. It is APOSTASY to require water baptism today (Hebrews 6).
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 13 2011,07:32) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,03:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
God changed when He cleansed all races of men. Some men were ceremonially unclean before God. Then God revealed to Peter that He had cleansed all men. Water baptism was the bathing ritual that was required for ceremonial uncleanness.Therefore, after God washed all men of their ceremonial uncleanness water baptism was done away. It is APOSTASY to require water baptism today (Hebrews 6).
Jack
Hi Jack:No, water baptism for a Born again Christian has nothing to do with an Old Testament ritual.
Quote Acts 19 (King James Version) Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,04:32) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,10:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyand they were all Jews
Pierre
Hi Pierre:Of course, these were all Jews, but Cornelius and his group were gentiles, and the Apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized in water after they received the Holy Ghost.
There is not one gospel for the Jews and another for gentiles. The gospel went forth to the Jews first and then it went forth to the gentiles when the Jews as a nation rejected the gospel, but it is the same gospel. Not a different one.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,19:06) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,04:32) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,10:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyand they were all Jews
Pierre
Hi Pierre:Of course, these were all Jews, but Cornelius and his group were gentiles, and the Apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized in water after they received the Holy Ghost.
There is not one gospel for the Jews and another for gentiles. The gospel went forth to the Jews first and then it went forth to the gentiles when the Jews as a nation rejected the gospel, but it is the same gospel. Not a different one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martywhy would the gentiles come under the same law than the Jews?
Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, REPENT,(by there repent they now stop the ritual of the law and accept Christ in there hearths and receive the promise that was in the book of the prophets) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
the Jews have to repent of there sins from breaking the law,
the gentiles had no law but to be saved they have also to accept Christ as there mediator for there sins ,
but there was no baptism of repentance for the gentiles ,or was there??
by accepting Christ as there mediator and follow his teaching would bring them to be baptized in his name and so may be qualified to receive the holy spirit from Christ.
the ritual of water was the favored for religion to make and keep there prozelites,not to serve God.
being a disciple of Christ make you free of men ,and worship God in spirit and in truth.
what truth is preached in a ritual of water??
Pierre
Marty said:
Quote No, water baptism for a Born again Christian has nothing to do with an Old Testament ritual.
Marty,Again I must ask you what Bible you are reading. The apostles were performing John's baptism (Acts 11:16). John was the LAST of the old covenant prophets.
After Peter received the vision that God had cleansed all races of men Peter recalled the word of the Lord
Quote 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
After this there was a shift in Peter's thinking regarding water baptism. Before he mandated it in the name of Jesus. Now he appeals to the people and THEY allow Cornelius and his house to be baptized with water. Then it says that Peter 'prearranged them in order' to be baptized. Peter did not mandate that Cornelius and his house be baptized. The Greek word 'protasso' means 'to prearrange in order.' Peter allowed them to be baptized and arranged it as a DEMONSTRATION that all races of men are now accepted into the covenant.From that time and onward the apostles baptized with the Holy Spirit only. The traditional view regarding water baptism is an offense to the cross and it denies that all races of men are NOW ceremonially clean before God. Hebrews 6 says that if we lay that foundation again we “crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame.” Water baptism was a part of that foundation.
The bathing ritual has been done away. Praise God!
Jack
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,12:24) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,19:06) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,04:32) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2011,10:40) Hi Jack: This is what the scripture states:
Quote Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
This is the Word of God, and so, when did God change his mind about this. He said: “even as many as the Lord our God shall call”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyand they were all Jews
Pierre
Hi Pierre:Of course, these were all Jews, but Cornelius and his group were gentiles, and the Apostle Peter commanded them to be baptized in water after they received the Holy Ghost.
There is not one gospel for the Jews and another for gentiles. The gospel went forth to the Jews first and then it went forth to the gentiles when the Jews as a nation rejected the gospel, but it is the same gospel. Not a different one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martywhy would the gentiles come under the same law than the Jews?
Acts 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, REPENT,(by there repent they now stop the ritual of the law and accept Christ in there hearths and receive the promise that was in the book of the prophets) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
the Jews have to repent of there sins from breaking the law,
the gentiles had no law but to be saved they have also to accept Christ as there mediator for there sins ,
but there was no baptism of repentance for the gentiles ,or was there??
by accepting Christ as there mediator and follow his teaching would bring them to be baptized in his name and so may be qualified to receive the holy spirit from Christ.
the ritual of water was the favored for religion to make and keep there prozelites,not to serve God.
being a disciple of Christ make you free of men ,and worship God in spirit and in truth.
what truth is preached in a ritual of water??
Pierre
Hi Pierre:The scriptures state that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”, and sin is defined “as the transgression of God's eternal law, the Ten commandments”.
And so, the Jews who were under the Law of Moses broke God's Law, and the gentiles who were not under the Law also have broken God's Law, and by the Law shall no man be saved, because there is no one other than Jesus who has obeyed the Law without sin, and he obeyed it without sin even unto death on the cross.
And so, the Lord has said that he did not come to call the righteous but sinners unto repentance.
And so, salvation is not of works, but is by faith so that it might be by grace whether someone is a Jew or a gentile
And so, those Jews who were saved when the Apostle Peter was preaching in Acts 2 were saved when they came to God with a repentant heart believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that God raised him again from the dead.
Water baptism is symbolic of one's union with Jesus in his death. burial and resurrection. In this, a believer is publicly showing that he has believed the gospel, and he has repented. He has died to sin, his sins have been washed away(not by the water, this only symbolic, but by the blood) and is raised from the dead to walk in the newness of life.
And so, the gospel which is the good news that God has given His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life is preached to every creature, Jew or gentile, and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
When a person believes the gospel and comes to God with a repentant heart he will be saved. Water baptism is an act obedience to God's Word. It doesn't save you but shows that you are saved. Faith without works is dead.
Quote Romans 10
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Quote Romans 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law
Quote Romans 6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Love in Christ,
MartyTo all,
Were the elders that had the Holy Spirit rest on them in the days of Israel's wanderings in the desert born again in spirit that day?
Marty
where do you read baptism in water ?
Quote When a person believes the gospel and comes to God with a repentant heart he will be saved. Water baptism is an act obedience to God's Word. It doesn't save you but shows that you are saved. Faith without works is dead Ro 10:1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
Ro 10:2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
Ro 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Ro 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Ro 10:5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.”
Ro 10:6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’’” (that is, to bring Christ down)
Ro 10:7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Ro 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
Ro 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Ro 10:11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
Ro 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
Ro 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Ro 10:14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
Ro 10:15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
Ro 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
Ro 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Ro 10:18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”
Ro 10:19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
Ro 10:20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
Ro 10:21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”Ro 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Ro 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
Ro 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Ro 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Ro 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
Ro 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Ro 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
Ro 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Ro 3:29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
Ro 3:30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
Ro 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.what as faith to do with the ritual of water baptism?
our faith is in our hearts ,by our actions that we shine the light of Christ and put to dead our sinfull nature.
Romans 6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
are you sure that Paul talks about the living one or the faithful who died in Christ ?and so where baptized in Jesus dead ?
Pierre
To all,
Marty wrote:
Quote Water baptism is symbolic of one's union with Jesus in his death. burial and resurrection. In this, a believer is publicly showing that he has believed the gospel, and he has repented. He has died to sin, his sins have been washed away(not by the water, this only symbolic, but by the blood) and is raised from the dead to walk in the newness of life.
I disagree as it is at baptism Jesus sets you really free from servitude to sin by giving you the Holy Spirit in its roll of councilor of righteousness and so fills you with the righteousness a believers sole yearns for.
Ephesians 4:24(NIV,2011)
Quote and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
That is when the new self is created like God in true holiness and righteousness, Ephesians 4:24. Creation is a miracle.
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