Is baptism needed for salvation?

[Laurel]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 27 2010,09:05)

terraricca………Right you can quote scripture till your blue in the face and Not be at all converted, all who put Scripture above GOD are worshiping the scriptures as their GOD. We Must use The Spirit of GOD to properly understand the things written in scriptures. The Spirit causes us to grow in understanding and Knowledge as Well as GRACE of GOD. Those who are of GOD HAVE PROOFS OF HIS EXISTENCE (IN) THEIR LIVES WHICH ARE NOT WRITTEN IS SCRIPTURES, BUT ARE PERSONAL EXPERIENCES> This is what give true believers their true FAITH, not scripture. IMO peace and love…………………gene

Gene,
You are partly correct when you say we can tell a converted believing person “by their works.”

But i beg to differ with you in that their works can be proved with Scripture.

Does that make sense to you.

Here is an example:
No where in Scripture does Scripture or the Messiah Yahushua change the Sabbath Day of YHWH from the 7th Day of the week to the 1st Day of the week.

Now there are those to claim that the Catholic church leaders had the authority of YHWH to change the Sabbath Day from Day 7 to Day 1.

Let me say this, “No man has any authority to chang one jot or one tittle, one “YUD” nor one “flourish” of the TORAH, for YHWH Elohim is an El of His Word, and wothout it we have nothing to stand on but quicksand.

Therefore without TORAH we are tossed to and fro in the world never really knowing what is expected of us, we have no guidelines, we have no sound protection from the evil spirits in this world, but will eventually bow down to every whim or fancy we imagine in our fleshy hearts, which Scripture reveals are thoughts are evil continually.

So we do need to look to TORAH for the “guidelines” or instructions that YHWH gave us. I will say that the TORAH is a gift, it is a love song, and it is good. It does bring life to those who “seek to do the will of the ALL MIGHTY.

BUT doing Scripture by memory, repeating Scripture to boast of oneself, learning Scripture (TORAH) to use it in a way that was never meant to be is all vanity, and when we misuse TORAH, it is the same as trampling on the blood of the Messiah, for it is life to them who love Him and keep His commands.

Self seekers seeking sons and daughter of HaSatan think to change the Sabbaths and the Appointed Times of YHWH ELohim.

Now there is discernment!

I will know my sisters and brothers who are in Messiah “by their works,”

[Laurel]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2010,11:17)

Hi, So to follow the teaching of scripture all should repent and seek water baptism in the name of Jesus and baptism in the Spirit. To see the kingdom you need to obey and be reborn of water and the Spirit.

Je_us is a pagan diety.
YHWH ELohim's Son is YAHUSHUA and His Name means YHWH is Salvation.

You must be baptised in the Name of “YAHUSHUA” for in His Name is our Father AND salvation!

This type of baptisim is called identity. We need to identify with the TRUE MESSIAH and not some Greek Je_us who if a man follows keeps the wrong Sabbaths, and the wrong Holy Days, and distances himself from TORAH, men who think not only to change the Sabbaths, and the Appointed Times, but also the Name of the One Who saves!

Therefore leavenig men to their own dillusions.

Follow YAHUSHUA MESSIAH, KEEP HIS COMMANDS, and you will find what most men will never find, the path to the very narrow gate that leads to life!

[Laurel]

Quote (terraricca @ April 27 2010,15:22)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2010,15:15) Hi T, I think those who have obeyed are the ones to seek baptism through. Human denominations are irrelevant Acts 2.38 Rom6 1Peter3 nick like always you say nothing,and let all people in the dark. human denomination are irrelevant ,so you say ,what does it mean?? is it that it is ok to be baptized into any denomination provided it is by immersion??? even trinitarian??

Tarricca,
So that you will not be left in the dark on the great and awesome day of YHWH, let me say this:
“If you are in any church that does not teach the Messiah YAHUSHUA AND the TORAH, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!”

[Laurel]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2010,16:20)

Hi T, Denominations have at least two.

From what i see they have at least FOUR.
They say 3 people who are separate plus one deity or god who encompasses them all. This makes four.

People who deny that YAHUSHUA was flesh and make Him their diety, also have four.

Those of us who know YAHUSHUA Messiah was flesh, and that YHWH is Elohim, follow Yahushua Messiah and know there is only One Elohim, and His Name is YHWH, not Yahushua. ANd we also know that our Elohim is Spirit, and that He is in us. This is why we do our best to follow TORAH, because our Elohim can not dwell in a temple which has been defiled.

[Laurel]

AND we love our Master!

[Elizabeth]

Laurel! Welcome back. In
Exodus 34:28 God gave the ten Commandments to Moses and the Ten Commandments is the Old Covenant God made with Israel.
In Exodus 31:16
Therefore the Children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant
verse 17
It is a sign between Me (God) and the children of Israel.

That was the Old Covenant. We today are under the New Covenant in

Luke 22:20…This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you.

Jesus on the Sermon on the mount magnified the commandment, and made it spiritual.
He gives us the great Commandment in
Math. 22: 37 Jesus said to Him:” You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart, with all your
soul, and with all your mind.”
verse 38
“This is the first and great Commandment.
verse 39
“And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
verse 40 “On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

I do know that you do not believe in the same Jesus that we believe in, however I have never seen you prove it anywhere. the Bible teaches us to prove all things.
The Torah is the old Covenant and not the New….
Peace and Love Irene

[Laurel]

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 28 2010,04:49)

Laurel!  Welcome back.  In Exodus 34:28 God gave the ten Commandments to Moses and the Ten Commandments is the Old Covenant God made with Israel. In Exodus 31:16 Therefore the Children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant verse 17 It is a sign between Me (God) and the children of Israel. That was the Old Covenant.  We today are under the New Covenant in Luke 22:20…This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you. Jesus on the Sermon on the mount magnified the commandment, and made it spiritual. He gives us the great Commandment in Math. 22: 37 Jesus said to Him:” You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.” verse 38 “This is the first and great Commandment. verse 39 “And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself. verse 40 “On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. I do know that you do not believe in the same Jesus that we believe in, however I have never seen you prove it anywhere.  the Bible teaches us to prove all things. The Torah is the old Covenant and not the New…. Peace and Love Irene

Shalom Elizabeth,
OK then if it is the way you perceive, show me the ketubah or where the new covenant is written that you believe in. Prove it to me with Scripture, and use the same Scripture that the Messiah used, and His taught ones. Don't show me some words that Constantine, the pope, or Spurgeon wrote.

And when you get worn out trying to find something that just simply is not there, then i will show you where the “re-newed covenant” is written and i'll show you how to enter into it and live.

[Laurel]

Irene, Elizabeth,
Thank you so very much for recognizing that i do not believe in the same Je_us as you do. I take that as a huge compliment, and it tells me that YHWH is definately working to call out His children from the world.

It also tells me that you are able to discern some things, like the fact that there is only One Elohim, and not every religion on the planet worships Him.
AMEN

[NickHassan]

Hi Irene,
A wise storeman can take good things, old and new out of his storehouse.
But we gentiles never had a covenant with God and must rely on the new one.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Laurel @ April 28 2010,06:18)

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 28 2010,04:49) Laurel!  Welcome back.  In Exodus 34:28 God gave the ten Commandments to Moses and the Ten Commandments is the Old Covenant God made with Israel. In Exodus 31:16 Therefore the Children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual covenant verse 17 It is a sign between Me (God) and the children of Israel. That was the Old Covenant.  We today are under the New Covenant in Luke 22:20…This cup is the new covenant in My blood which is shed for you. Jesus on the Sermon on the mount magnified the commandment, and made it spiritual. He gives us the great Commandment in Math. 22: 37 Jesus said to Him:” You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.” verse 38 “This is the first and great Commandment. verse 39 “And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself. verse 40 “On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. I do know that you do not believe in the same Jesus that we believe in, however I have never seen you prove it anywhere.  the Bible teaches us to prove all things. The Torah is the old Covenant and not the New…. Peace and Love Irene Shalom Elizabeth, OK then if it is the way you perceive, show me the ketubah or where the new covenant is written that you believe in. Prove it to me with Scripture, and use the same Scripture that the Messiah used, and His taught ones. Don't show me some words that Constantine, the pope, or Spurgeon wrote. And when you get worn out trying to find something that just simply is not there, then i will show you where the “re-newed covenant” is written and i'll show you how to enter into it and live.

I gave you the New Covenant in Luke 22:20 and the great Commandment in
Math. 22:37-40
It is Jesus talking in Luke.
I gave you the Old and then the new. Read it again.
This has nothing to do with the pope which I don;t believe in, are you forgetting that I left that Church….it looks like that….what you are doing is absolutely wrong judge not so you will not be judged. I showed you what Jesus said and you simple did not even read it, otherwise you would not have said what you did….. Constantine has nothing to do with the New Covenant in Luke 22:20 or the great Commandment in Math. 22:37-40
I have proven to myself that we are under grace and not under the Old Covenant Law….and Laurel, I am very much alive in God's Holy Spirit. It is God's Holy Spirit that has shown me these revelation from the New Covenant…..
Irene

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Laurel @ April 28 2010,06:22)

Irene, Elizabeth, Thank you so very much for recognizing that i do not believe in the same Je_us as you do. I take that as a huge compliment, and it tells me that YHWH is definately working to call out His children from the world. It also tells me that you are able to discern some things, like the fact that there is only One Elohim, and not every religion on the planet worships Him. AMEN

Again no prove just words nothing else…..

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 28 2010,06:53)

Hi Irene, A wise storeman can take good things, old and new out of his storehouse. But we gentiles never had a covenant with God and must rely on the new one.

Nick  Did you not read what I said about Exodus 31:16-17
You are  right we never were under that law.  We are under the great Commandment….which Jesus gave us….now we have the new Covenant in Jesus Blood……Luke 22:20
Irene

[NickHassan]

Hi Irene,
The discussions Jesus had with the Jews about the Law did not automatically apply them to us.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 28 2010,11:23)

Hi Irene, The discussions Jesus had with the Jews about the Law did not automatically apply them to us.

What are you taking about…. I am talking about the New Covenant in luke 22:20 and not the Old Covenant…He magnified that Law of old and made all spiritual….the New Covenant is for us and the Sabbath never was for us in the first place, like so many think, like Laurel….I wonder if She is coming back….and I know some that are on Face Book that keep the Sabbath…….Irene

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Laurel @ April 28 2010,06:22)

Irene, Elizabeth, Thank you so very much for recognizing that i do not believe in the same Je_us as you do. I take that as a huge compliment, and it tells me that YHWH is definately working to call out His children from the world. It also tells me that you are able to discern some things, like the fact that there is only One Elohim, and not every religion on the planet worships Him. AMEN

I find it interesting to see that Laurel comes and then goes within two or three posts….That is what I call a good debate…. Irene

[Laurel]

Irene,
I asked you to show me where in “THE SCRIPTURES” is this new covenant that your believe in. I asked you to use THE SAME SCRIPTURES that the Messiah and His taught ones used.

Was your comment that “His taught one wrote” what you call the new covenant? If it was, that is hardly what the Messiah taught as they were not written yet. The Messiah and His taught ones taught about the Scriptures and the Burean's knew where to look to see if what they were teaching was right. So please show me where in The Scriptures is this new covenant, and when you tire of searching for it, i will show you where it is and what is says and how to become enjoined to YHWH through it.

[Laurel]

Luke is not the Scriptures that the Burean's used, nor should you. Until you understand the covenant, you need to use The Scriptures like the Messiah used, and His taught ones, and the Burean's. The people who came into the covenant in their day used The Scriptures and rightly so.

Didn't you know that Yahushua is the Word made flesh? This means that if you delete any part of the Word, that you are deleting parts of the Messiah. OUCH!!!!

[Ed J]

Quote (Laurel @ April 29 2010,02:12)

Irene, I asked you to show me where in “THE SCRIPTURES” is this new covenant that your believe in. I asked you to use THE SAME SCRIPTURES that the Messiah and His taught ones used. Was your comment that “His taught one wrote” what you call the new covenant? If it was, that is hardly what the Messiah taught as they were not written yet.  The Messiah and His taught ones taught about the Scriptures and the Burean's knew where to look to see if what they were teaching was right. So please show me where in The Scriptures is this new covenant, and when you tire of searching for it, i will show you where it is and what is says and how to become enjoined to YHWH through it.

Hi Laurel,

Do you believe that the New “Testament” is “Canon”?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH. (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Laurel]

Ed,
I believe the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations.
I also know that you can not fully comprehend either the early or the latter writings unless you know and believe the entire thing.

[Ed J]

Quote (Laurel @ April 29 2010,02:43)

Ed, I believe the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations. I also know that you can not fully comprehend either the early or the latter writings unless you know and believe the entire thing.

Hi Laurel,

What do you think this verse means…

2Cor.3:15: But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. (Click here)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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